The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - ATFR - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

rhondam wrote:Ben and Lauren seem very happy. At different times each of them have said they only want to be married once. I think they will commit to that and will live continue to live a happy life right along with Sean & Catherine and all the others who found their partners on this show. 

In interviews Ben has said that indeed they both committed to a life together:

Lauren and I's intentions when we committed to each other was to commit to each other and to do whatever it takes to keep that commitment going forever. And so, that's why I think we're going to work. I don't have any doubts that it will work.

Read more at http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/ben-higgins-i-had-an-aha-moment-picking-out-lauren-bushnell-ring-i-have-no-doubts-well-work-out-19463.php#o8RGTBdwVojYZFgH.99

^
I don't think either one would make that commitment if they weren't absolutely sure and completely in love. I doubt Ben could and would let Lauren uproot her life and to move to Denver, or her do the move if they weren't sure this is it for them. Jmo.

Lucas15 wrote:

JBF wrote:The only struggle I had with Jo-Jo's storyline was his lackluster "concern" about her ex-boyfriend visiting during hometown (when the typical bachelorette would have boo-hooed and fussed about leaving this show "empty handed"). Also, like Caila, there was a slight "stagey" feel to some of her scenes. I am not saying that she wasn't a possible f1 contender.

IMO the entire HTD with JoJo was so staged and fake I laughed out loud. I'd be hard pressed to think of anything TPTB should could have done that they didn't do to make sure that Ben wasn't going to pick JoJo - including the sudden appearance of an ex that wants her back and a family about as gracious as ... well I won't use the analogy I was thinking because it's definitely not PC. Let's just say that H*** would freeze over before I would want them as brothers-in-law. I think the producers would have done anything they could - even above and beyond that fiasco - to make sure Ben wouldn't pick her as F1 - because they wanted her for the next lead. JMHO

JBF wrote:More importantly, I am getting tired already of Fleiss' new gimmick: showing us The Most Dramatic Moment Of The Season (like Kaitlyn getting "intimate" with Nick and Ben repeating he wuvs Jo-Jo in front of the potty) BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND WITH SUBTITLES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED. They need to try something different next season, because it is increasingly reminding me of this classic Bugs Bunny scene.

IMO that's a big clue that what we're seeing isn't real. The bathroom scene still intrigues me because "conventional wisdom" suggests that the bathroom is a place where there are no mics and no filming - for obvious reasons. So either that "urban myth" is completely busted, or it's true in which case what we heard (and saw in subtitles) is B-roll - supplemental footage shot to make a scene look different and more explainable.

Ugh! The fakeness of the Jojo HTD was so annoying.  When did we ever start a HTD where you start with the contestant walking to her home? She finds flowers, starts crying and calls the exBF on speaker? So contrived. I think at that point she might have already been promised the ette role much like Ali leaving Jake season early and then calling to come back.

Ben knew it was Lauren from the beginning, gave Jojo a shot (with some prodding) and his conflict is from letting someone down which he hates rather than equal feelings with Lauren. I don't think Jojo had a shot as F1 but my paranoia was from MF's masterful edit!

Ben said it himself in Today Show that his connection with Lauren was very early on and even if there are other people involved, he knew he can never picture his life without Lauren. That to me means, no one stood a chance to become F1 other than Lauren.

I do believe Ben was in love with JoJo in his own way, at least very infatuated, and why wouldn't he have been? She's great and she was very good to him. However, with Lauren there, I don't think there was any chance he'd pick her unless Lauren left on her own. Basically, as long as it was his choice, there was no choice. Lauren was the one who made his world stop and there's no getting past that. JoJo did some serious catching up, but it wasn't possible for her to overtake Lauren. Seems it worked out the best for everyone though, so that's good.

mindless wrote:I do believe Ben was in love with JoJo in his own way, at least very infatuated, and why wouldn't he have been? She's great and she was very good to him. However, with Lauren there, I don't think there was any chance he'd pick her unless Lauren left on her own. Basically, as long as it was his choice, there was no choice. Lauren was the one who made his world stop and there's no getting past that. JoJo did some serious catching up, but it wasn't possible for her to overtake Lauren. Seems it worked out the best for everyone though, so that's good.

soccermom333 wrote:I love ben and Lauren too and time will tell but no need to make excuses for what Ben did and said to JoJo.  He was clearly attracted to her and told her things he probably should not have.  He did and its over and now JoJo gets to pick from 25.  ;)  He was not acting with JoJo imo.  ;)

I am basing this just off the finale and what every single successful couple from this show has said. Ben fell in show/puppy dog love with both Lauren and JoJo. With Lauren he was amazed that she could love him and spent the whole season waiting for her to come to her senses and dump him. While with JoJo he had friendship with smoking hot chemistry that became the on show love. I do believe it was probably always Lauren but that he was shocked that he could feel so much for Lauren and still what he did for JoJo. In real life developing feelings for two people would make anyone question their feelings for both.

I honestly think he could have had a good relationship with JoJo too, but at the end of it all, he just wanted Lauren more. I have always thought that a strong connection to F2 is actually a compliment to the F1 when the choice of F1 is sincere. To be chosen over someone who was really great too, that means you are something even greater and more special. JMO.

I also think the real steady and strong true love doesn't begin until after the show ends. After the world isn't full of fake set up dates and forced situations. When you are just two people talking, loving and really knowing each other. Until FRC, they have exactly one night when they aren't full being recorded. The have barely had any time to even truly know each other.

So just like every other successful couple, I think that Ben and Lauren are in real love now and probably grow more so everyday. Whatever love he had for JoJo is past and doesn't lessen or change what they have now which is growing and very real.

All JMO.

Lucas15 wrote:

JBF wrote:The only struggle I had with Jo-Jo's storyline was his lackluster "concern" about her ex-boyfriend visiting during hometown (when the typical bachelorette would have boo-hooed and fussed about leaving this show "empty handed"). Also, like Caila, there was a slight "stagey" feel to some of her scenes. I am not saying that she wasn't a possible f1 contender.

IMO the entire HTD with JoJo was so staged and fake I laughed out loud. I'd be hard pressed to think of anything TPTB should could have done that they didn't do to make sure that Ben wasn't going to pick JoJo - including the sudden appearance of an ex that wants her back and a family about as gracious as ... well I won't use the analogy I was thinking because it's definitely not PC. Let's just say that H*** would freeze over before I would want them as brothers-in-law. I think the producers would have done anything they could - even above and beyond that fiasco - to make sure Ben wouldn't pick her as F1 - because they wanted her for the next lead. JMHO

EGAD... those bros (one whom I had seen on TV before but can't remember which show) are more challenging than even Desiree's brother Nathaniel.

There are going to be two very "lucky" dudes next season having to deal with THEM. I wonder if one will either leave or be booted before family greet like Brooks and Drew. That made absolutely no sense having Last Chance Dates (and ending Drew's abruptly) before meet-the-bro time.

You know they could have allowed Ben to repeat Jason's set-up. To this day, I still don't see much "IT" between him and Melissa in their scenes. Remember when Melissa even commented on Molly returning from a date "smelling like him"? How could she go along with being f1 after making that comment? At least she passed the audition for DWTS quickly.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't sell the Ben/Jo-Jo relationship too short. Yeah... he loved her. To put it another way, he was comfortable with her. I doubt he genuinely believed Leah's claim that Lauren was Ms. Jekyll-Hyde, although there was little question that Jo-Jo was simply Jo-Jo and she might have been a good fall-back girl just in case Lauren suddenly started baying to the moon during the fantasy date.

Chris Harrison insists this show is genuine r-e-a-l-i-t-y-T-V but it is not wise to awaken a sleepwalker.

JBF wrote:More importantly, I am getting tired already of Fleiss' new gimmick: showing us The Most Dramatic Moment Of The Season (like Kaitlyn getting "intimate" with Nick and Ben repeating he wuvs Jo-Jo in front of the potty) BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND WITH SUBTITLES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED. They need to try something different next season, because it is increasingly reminding me of this classic Bugs Bunny scene.

IMO that's a big clue that what we're seeing isn't real. The bathroom scene still intrigues me because "conventional wisdom" suggests that the bathroom is a place where there are no mics and no filming - for obvious reasons. So either that "urban myth" is completely busted, or it's true in which case what we heard (and saw in subtitles) is B-roll - supplemental footage shot to make a scene look different and more explainable.

I sure miss BURNING LOVE, especially the Bachelorette version with "Julie Gristlewhite". Chris Harrison thinks it was their greatest parody. We can only guess that both involved the same level of acting. Only BURNING LOVE had a better script.

Lucas15 wrote:

JBF wrote:The only struggle I had with Jo-Jo's storyline was his lackluster "concern" about her ex-boyfriend visiting during hometown (when the typical bachelorette would have boo-hooed and fussed about leaving this show "empty handed"). Also, like Caila, there was a slight "stagey" feel to some of her scenes. I am not saying that she wasn't a possible f1 contender.

IMO the entire HTD with JoJo was so staged and fake I laughed out loud. I'd be hard pressed to think of anything TPTB should could have done that they didn't do to make sure that Ben wasn't going to pick JoJo - including the sudden appearance of an ex that wants her back and a family about as gracious as ... well I won't use the analogy I was thinking because it's definitely not PC. Let's just say that H*** would freeze over before I would want them as brothers-in-law. I think the producers would have done anything they could - even above and beyond that fiasco - to make sure Ben wouldn't pick her as F1 - because they wanted her for the next lead. JMHO

JBF wrote:More importantly, I am getting tired already of Fleiss' new gimmick: showing us The Most Dramatic Moment Of The Season (like Kaitlyn getting "intimate" with Nick and Ben repeating he wuvs Jo-Jo in front of the potty) BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND WITH SUBTITLES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED. They need to try something different next season, because it is increasingly reminding me of this classic Bugs Bunny scene.

IMO that's a big clue that what we're seeing isn't real. The bathroom scene still intrigues me because "conventional wisdom" suggests that the bathroom is a place where there are no mics and no filming - for obvious reasons. So either that "urban myth" is completely busted, or it's true in which case what we heard (and saw in subtitles) is B-roll - supplemental footage shot to make a scene look different and more explainable.

I said it at the time the show was airing, but when you get late in the season and all of a sudden they start editing all this drama in...it is always to confuse the audience away from the reality. In this case, the drama was all about JoJo. To me, the connection between Ben and Lauren was clear from the start and all the JoJo drama was editing. Not to say he didn't have feelings that developed, but I never saw anywhere near the same connection with Ben and JoJo as I did with him and Lauren.

Ben very much reminded me of Sean as I was watching the show. He kept saying how confused he was and he was keeping himself open to all possibilities, but to me that was very much the bachelor bubble...sleep deprivation, producer prodding and manipulation of the lead and contestants. When I watched them together...S&C and B&L...I always felt the stuff they were saying was coming from their head...and producers...but, how they acted was from the heart and that watching themselves after the fact, they would look back upon that time and see what they couldn't at the time. Their head may not have known, but their heart did.

mindless wrote:I do believe Ben was in love with JoJo in his own way, at least very infatuated, and why wouldn't he have been? She's great and she was very good to him. However, with Lauren there, I don't think there was any chance he'd pick her unless Lauren left on her own. Basically, as long as it was his choice, there was no choice. Lauren was the one who made his world stop and there's no getting past that. JoJo did some serious catching up, but it wasn't possible for her to overtake Lauren. Seems it worked out the best for everyone though, so that's good.

I'm wondering if this quote of Ben's from the People Magazine March 28 issue is Ben's description of your post:

Ben H wrote:[By the end] I had been through a lot with JoJo and Lauren. They both had been a good support to me. There was a reason they were the last two there. At the time [saying "I love you"] was my definition of how I was feeling. Have you cared about multiple people throughout your dating experiences? That's the best way to describe it, only for me it was consolidated! Now my feelings are so far removed from that. I feel so disconnected from the show. I was a different person then.

Sprite wrote:Ben very much reminded me of Sean as I was watching the show. He kept saying how confused he was and he was keeping himself open to all possibilities, but to me that was very much the bachelor bubble...sleep deprivation, producer prodding and manipulation of the lead and contestants. When I watched them together...S&C and B&L...I always felt the stuff they were saying was coming from their head...and producers...but, how they acted was from the heart and that watching themselves after the fact, they would look back upon that time and see what they couldn't at the time. Their head may not have known, but their heart did.

Great observations and one of the most touching things about this season - the words may have been producers' - but the emotions were real. IMO Sean's season and Ben's shared that in common and it was what made both seasons so special (to me) as I watched them. When Lauren spoke from her heart she was incredible (not that Ben wasn't) - if an actress in a movie she would have won an Oscar. I can really understand why Ben and Lauren would go back and watch their parts (as they say they have done) - who would not want to relive those memories now that they are together?
JMHO

Looks like benlo might be visiting shaitlyn in Nashville someday, as I read Lauren tweet to KB

This was another fun fact from the article posted regarding Ben's date with Jojo....

What viewers didn't see was that the location is not remote, and is actually part of a popular public park. There are also a lot of rocks at the bottom of the waterfall pools, so when JoJo and Ben were locking lips, they were probably in pain.

Small pebbles and smooth stones are what you'll find around the base of waterfalls frequented by tourists. Visitors on various travel sites rave about how incredible this location is and much prefer it over the "tourist trap" spots. 

Part of Ben's anatomy may have been in pain while locking lips with Jojo, but it wasn't his feet. Poor guy should have worn board shorts with compression shorts underneath.