The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - MTP -LCD - FRC - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

SarahD wrote:

BohemianNika wrote:Both Ben's underwear and Lauren's dress are blue

Blue is really BenLo's color. She was wearing blue at M&G, during their first dat and now their first night officially as a couple


I knew that inner conflict we saw in Ben was not conflict on who to choose but more like about hurting and saying goodbye to someone.  I refuse to believe Lauren was a last minute choice. It's always been her since the beginning!

So true. That was his stress.

You guys, I just have to say this, I just re-watched the rose ceremony from the F3.  I was struck by a thought that entered my mind.  That rose ceremony was awkward, but what if Jojo was in on it after Ben let Caila go and she agreed to go along with pretending for the sake of finishing the show AND her being made TB?  Too crazy, huh?  Did I mention that I have a VERY ACTIVE IMAGINATION???  

I know, probably not, but I was just so struck at how awkward that whole rose ceremony was!!!

I really don't think you can fake the chemistry Ben and Jojo had imo. But, I do think after all was said and done, she wanted to move forward with him more than he wanted to move forward with her . Almost that simple. His mom didn't say Jojo was more her style as it was edited in that short clip. She probably repeated what Ben said to them about what he saw in Jojo. Ben felt Jojo was more his style. But it was Lauren who changed him in a different direction . Made him realize what he truly needed and wanted. He might have had a Jojo type in his life before , but never a Lauren. He went with what was the best for him jmo.

George1218 wrote:You guys, I just have to say this, I just re-watched the rose ceremony from the F3.  I was struck by a thought that entered my mind.  That rose ceremony was awkward, but what if Jojo was in on it after Ben let Caila go and she agreed to go along with pretending for the sake of finishing the show AND her being made TB?  Too crazy, huh?  Did I mention that I have a VERY ACTIVE IMAGINATION???  

I know, probably not, but I was just so struck at how awkward that whole rose ceremony was!!!

you are not the first person to mention that possibility, or at least allude to it. It is possible.

I choose to believe people are honest but that's just me, I dont do cynical

I don't know about being cynical.  I think there really were strong feelings between Ben and Jojo, and if Lauren hadn't of been there, Ben probably would have picked Jojo.  I was just thinking that maybe it could have been a mutual agreement between TPTB, Ben and Jojo.  After Ben let TPTB know that he was going to either send Jojo or Caila go home because he KNEW it was Lauren, that TPTB said something along the lines of "Ok, you can have your happily ever after, but we still have a show to put on".  Maybe by that time Jojo knew that what she had with Ben was good but not anything like he had with Lauren.  This way, Ben could let Caila go before she got hurt anymore, he would get his happily ever after, TPTB could get their fireworks/ratings and Jojo could become the next Bachelorette.  I don't see it as a bad thing really. Even though Ben knew without a doubt by that point that it was Lauren, he was still obligated to finish the show.  

Maybe I am totally off, but this would go along with Jojo not being totally devastated, Ben knowing for a while that Lauren was "the one" AND Ben's comment about "We really put his F1 through he$$" (something like that anyway. This would also jive with the spoiler for RS!

George1218 wrote:You guys, I just have to say this, I just re-watched the rose ceremony from the F3.  I was struck by a thought that entered my mind.  That rose ceremony was awkward, but what if Jojo was in on it after Ben let Caila go and she agreed to go along with pretending for the sake of finishing the show AND her being made TB?  Too crazy, huh?  Did I mention that I have a VERY ACTIVE IMAGINATION???  

I know, probably not, but I was just so struck at how awkward that whole rose ceremony was!!!

Something has always come off a little scripted about Jojo. Like maybe she was a plant from the beginning for next bachelorette and Ben didn't even know. Ben did say that Jojo "gets it" more than anyone else. Maybe it's because she's being told everything that's happening by the producers and coached in what to say and do to win Ben over.

In truth, If Jojo got coached, it was more than just the producers . You cannot deny the things she learned seeing her brother be on a similar type show . Oh, and then there's Fake Pavelka. And now like Jake, she gets her own gig. Stranger things have happened.

I don't know if I believe that she was a plant or anything, but I think that maybe she knew at some point that Ben was more connected with Lauren than her.  I do think that she and Ben had a good connection, but his connection with Lauren was just a whole lot stronger.  I think that since she knew that and TPTB also knew that and maybe they convinced Ben to keep her to the end so that she could be the next lead, he could get Lauren AND still finish the show and he could let Caila go sooner rather than at F2 since I am sure he felt really bad about hurting her. This scenario would definitely fit with Ben saying that "we" put his F1 through he$$.

She was pleading with Ben on the bathroom floor for a sign it was her he was going to choose in the end. She wanted Ben imo. She wanted him badly. If she was actually and totally acting, why hide in the bathroom which we've learned is supposed to be off limits? Ben was trying to comfort and reassure her but more like a knee jerk reaction. Haven't we've seen or experienced RL relationship breakups where one party starts to cry over wanting validation and the other party trying to draw away feels sorry for the one crying and says things will be ok? Jojo had a meltdown and Ben wanted to soothe her . He did have feelings for her so said the words he did. But I think that was the start of his wake up call that snapped him out of dilemma. Jmooc

George1218 wrote:I don't know about being cynical.  I think there really were strong feelings between Ben and Jojo, and if Lauren hadn't of been there, Ben probably would have picked Jojo.  I was just thinking that maybe it could have been a mutual agreement between TPTB, Ben and Jojo.  After Ben let TPTB know that he was going to either send Jojo or Caila go home because he KNEW it was Lauren, that TPTB said something along the lines of "Ok, you can have your happily ever after, but we still have a show to put on".  Maybe by that time Jojo knew that what she had with Ben was good but not anything like he had with Lauren.  This way, Ben could let Caila go before she got hurt anymore, he would get his happily ever after, TPTB could get their fireworks/ratings and Jojo could become the next Bachelorette.  I don't see it as a bad thing really. Even though Ben knew without a doubt by that point that it was Lauren, he was still obligated to finish the show.  

Maybe I am totally off, but this would go along with Jojo not being totally devastated, Ben knowing for a while that Lauren was "the one" AND Ben's comment about "We really put his F1 through he$$" (something like that anyway. This would also jive with the spoiler for RS!

I so agree with this post. 
So much of what I saw in the interactions between JoJo and Ben reminded me of Matt Grant and Shayne Lamas. Very scripted with physical chemistry mixed in. 
Each season there is a very good likelihood the lead will not fall in love at least not for very long after the bubble. I don't think it's outside the realm of good business that TPTB often have a default person, just in case. 1) Travis Stork's --Sarah. 2) Matt Grant's --Shayne 3) Ben Higgins--JoJo.

Really? They plant someone that can be the default if there's no one among the contestants good enough for the lead to connect with? I guess I can believe it but on the flip side when you're in some boot camp to like someone, you probably end up liking the person because of the situations you're put under.

I just think it's hard to act on camera unless you're a pro. People will see through acting.

Although with Jojo, I did feel some of that sometimes. The monkey hug every time is just OTT. Some of her actions felt contrived. People say that she's very genuine and caring for other people but  I didnt really see that. During BenLo's date, when Caila was crying and pouring her heart out, she barely said anything to Caila and even looked away like it was awkward. She's also the one who always makes a face when single out Lauren, she even pointed it out when Ben asked Lauren for a date in person in Warsaw. Then, I was most curious when Leah-gate happened after BenLo talked, Jojo was next to have the 1:1 time with Ben yet the camera didn't show their timr and focused on Lauren in tears. Then when Lauren calmed down they went back in at the perfect moment.  I was actually pissed with Ben at that point because he didn't acknowldge that Lauren was emotional and you can see that she just cried.

Anyway, it was weird BenJo's 1:1 time was not shown at all during that date. It could be that Lauren's story with Leah was going to progress BenLo's story and the time with Jojo ended up in the cutting room floor because that wasn't the story they were selling at that point.

SarahD wrote:Really? They plant someone that can be the default if there's no one among the contestants good enough for the lead to connect with? I guess I can believe it but on the flip side when you're in some boot camp to like someone, you probably end up liking the person because of the situations you're put under.

I just think it's hard to act on camera unless you're a pro. People will see through acting.

Although with Jojo, I did feel some of that sometimes. The monkey hug every time is just OTT. Some of her actions felt contrived. People thought her very genuine and caring for other people but during BenLo's date, when Caila was crying and pouring her heart out. She barely said anything to Caila and even looked away like it was awkward. She's also the one who always makes a face when single out Lauren, she even pointed it out when Ben asked Lauren for a date in person in Warsaw. Then, I was most curious when Leah-gate happened after BenLo talked, she was next to have the 1:1 time with Ben yet the camera didn't show their timr and focused on Lauren in tears. Then when Lauren calmed down they went back in at the perfect moment.  I was actually pissed with Ben at that point because she didn't acknowldge that Lauren was emotional and you can see that she just cried.

Anyway, it was weird BenJo's 1:1 time was not shown at all during that date. It could be that Lauren's story with Leah was going to progress BenLo's story and the time with Jojo ended up in the cutting room floor because that wasn't the story they were selling at that point.

I don't think it could ever--ever be proved.
This is reality tv. So what would constitute a pro? Meryl Streep or someone like Ben Patton or any other cast interested in spring boarding into tv, modeling and business--Courtney Robinson, Jesse Palmer, Sadie Murray, Ali, Andi, Jesse C, Brooks? Someone that can simply follows a loose script and read cue cards and answer leading ITM's according to what they think TPTB want? 
I think anyone with half a brain could do this. JMOAA.  LOL This reminds me of hearing Emily had the reading level of a 8 yr old and could not read her cue cards and needed multiple re-takes. 
Can you fall in love or chemistry love in this bubble--well there is Elizabeth Taylor and Eddie Fisher and Brad and Angelina and many more.