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The Bachelorette - Season 12 - JoJo Fletcher - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

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Post by Guest Mon May 23, 2016 6:49 pm

Jojo surely has a great body and she looks so feminine with the right amount of curves...
Lucky her !

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Post by grace8136 Mon May 23, 2016 8:21 pm

That picture of the 8 guys in BA was taken on April 8th and Wells was back on SM by the 10th. RS says Derek was eliminated on a 2 on 1 that episode(6), but if Wells wasn't eliminated on a 1 on 1 on the 9th, something is fishy with the schedule and that part with CH and the 8 guys was filmed out of order. He could not have been eliminated at a RC by 4/10 if they just arrived 4/8. And if he was eliminated on a date there would be no RC. question

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Post by babs Mon May 23, 2016 8:29 pm

I so hope RS gets really really embarrassed this season
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Post by casjacknick Mon May 23, 2016 8:31 pm

grace8136 wrote:That picture of the 8 guys in BA was taken on April 8th and Wells was back on SM by the 10th. RS says Derek was eliminated on a 2 on 1 that episode(6), but if Wells wasn't eliminated on a 1 on 1 on the 9th, something is fishy with the schedule and that part with CH and the 8 guys was filmed out of order. He could not have been eliminated at a RC by 4/10 if they just arrived 4/8. And if he was eliminated on a date there would be no RC. question

Well, RS has already stated that he knows next to nothing about what happened in Argentina. I think you just proved him right: he does know next to nothing.
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Post by JBF Tue May 24, 2016 11:11 am

Good grief! I almost forgot this silly show was on again... until I saw an ad for it. Ha ha!

Know nothing of the outcome. No spoiling here, but...

You know what is so funny? I have seen enough of these shows since 2002 that I kinda can easily predict some stuff. It used to be this HUGE challenge, but their editing styles are getting more and more predictable as the seasons go.  I won't know who she picks and breaks up with until a few episodes in, but can pretty much guess the top three or four guys just by how they are presented on screen on episode 1.

Unfortunately my TV reception was VERY bad during the last 15 minutes or so. The sound was all jumbled and I couldn't hear anything anybody was saying. I didn't understand any of the "coming up this season" promo with all of the static... but it didn't look like Jo Jo was crying all that much. Must not be that eventful of a season.

As a result, I must ask: What exactly was Jake Pavelka there for?

You know... if Mister Dimples smiled more and wasn't so uptight and controlling of everyone and everything around him like the entire world is the control panel of his airplane, we would all *like* him sssssooooo much more. I could not hear a single word he said on account of bad reception. I guess he wanted to push Jo Jo aside and give out the roses himself at the ceremony... or something.

Oh well... here are the bits of the show that I could piece together when there was sound...

Jo Jo gave a pretty good performance, reminding me of both Trista (similar squeaky voice) and Ashley (similar dress) sort of way.  However her "backstory" sure is boring...

We get shots of her arriving last season with her unicorn head, the gals jealously watching her smooch Ben under the helicopter, Ben telling her he "wuvs" her, she repeating her stock storyline "please don't blindside me", Ben reading his cue cards below camera view as he "blindsides" her at final rose ceremony, Jo Jo reminding us she feels "blindsided" in her limo, then Jo Jo walking among the flowers and saying she was "confused" after many months... only what "confused" me was how the flowers growing around her eerily resembled the plucked ones her ex-boy friend gave her during Ben's hometown visit last season. I thought about HIM a few times during the show, thinking we would meet him instead of Jake Pavelka when they teased about her "visitor" in the coming-ups.

Oh well... confused or not, she is soon back in her bikini and chirping "Bring on the men!"

But first, she has to drive around in an expensive 1955 Ford Thunderbird (with a camera crew making sure she doesn't dent it) and sits down for a jam session with three former Bachelorettes: Kailtyn, Desie... and "mystic" Ali. Ali actually gives her the best advice: don't fall for The Roberto and be too eager to rip off his clothes. Me thinks... Jo Jo will do the same boo-boo as Ali. Desie warns her not to be "lustful". Then again, she herself always looked lusty when Prince Siegfried recited poetry on her season. Kaitlyn asks if she is ready to get engaged and Jo Jo is MOST eager.


Next... Some dude bios...

1.) Grant is a fire fighter from San Francisco who uses the same ol' same ol' "put out the fire" lines.

2.) Jordan talks sports, sports and more sports and comes off slightly boring aside from his Elvis hair do. Yet strangely I got a final "one-ish" vibe from his clips simply because he seems so average. The other seven all seem like they just want to be on Tee Vee.

3.) Alex is a biker 25 year old (who looks at least two decades older) with bulging biceps and tattoos... and a twin bother who matches in tattoos. Bro has a girlfriend. Alex does not. Alex wants to be just like Bro.

4.) James.. one of them... wants to be the Next Bachelor and Mike Fleiss already decided "No", but he is also a super fan. Bless his little heart.

5.) Evan is an ex-Nashville pastor who changed occupations to a spiritual quest to solve America's "erectile dis-function problem". Oooooohhhhh... I sure wish he stays longer than episode 1.  That occupation will provide much needed laughs to this ol' war horse of a show.

6.) Ali (not to be confused with Ali the ex-Bachelorette) says his family is from Iran, but is extra careful not to mention what religion they practice for fear that Donald Trump might catch wind of this and trash talk the show in his next campaign speech. He isn't quite ready to be deported from the country he was actually born in, so we get lots of shots of him surfing in Santa Barbara in order to show how much he is "blending in" with the other California TV reality dudes claiming they are here for Jo Jo.

7.) Chris is later billed as "Christian" when he arrives in his limo, just so we know there is little question that his family is not from Iran. However he wants Bachelor Nation to know that he is "bi-racial" in case there is some sort of problem with that. Huh? His biggest issue is that there are a lot of racists in Daddy's side of the family, but apparently non-existent Daddy must not have had a problem if he and Mommy brought him into this world. He gets along great with his brothers though. They all sit together and eat together as one big happy family. Jo Jo must feel fortunate that there are just three of them instead of seven like Jane Powell had to face in that ol' MGM musical.

8.) Luke is a farmer from Texas who loves that nonsense word "family values", so there's little question which political party he supports. He also has a lot of buddies who went to war and visits lots of grave sites. The way he hovered over one grave suggested that this particular guy may have been more than just a "buddy". Gee, I hope Jo Jo can help him get over his lost love or else she won't succeed in the fantasy suite with him.


This episode is awfully short at just two hours. We get no shots of Jo Jo preparing for her big night and talking "I am all nervous" like past leads. Also Bachelor Nation must have complained too many times that the limo parade is too long, because I swear... it must have run just 20 minutes this time, minus the commercials. I had one hellavah time jotting down all of the names since each dude zipped past her in order to get to the free mansion booze.

1.) Jordan gets the First Arrival spot in editing (not sure of reality since there are so many edit "cuts" in this episode). This means, like Ben and Prince Farming, he has a shot to be the next Bachelor... or they may be changing things up a bit and he will be the very first F1 guy to have this limo position. In any case, Jo Jo likes him... especially his "butt".

2.) Derek is typically "nervous" and gives me a dull-but-steady Top 4 or 5 reject "vibe".

3.) Grant gets the "he's cute" line. Yeah, but can he put out her fire?

4.) James (one of three) says he came for a "relationship", not a "rose". He isn't clear as to whom he seeks a relationship with, however.

5.) Robby brought wine and expects both he and Jo Jo to drink from the bottle. This is gonna be a looooong night even if the editors made sure it was cut under two hours running time. Yet Jo Jo says "my mom will like him". I am mighty curious as to why.

6.) Alex the nervous soldier seems worried whether or not Jo Jo is a perfect carbon copy of his brother's girl... since they must match at all times.

7.) Will drops his cue cards out of the limo. He is a civil engineer and not a great actor who keeps them off camera like the others.

8.) Chad doesn't talk much, but Jo Jo says later that she likes his "vulnerability". She loves a man of mystery, so... who knows? He could be Zee Wun instead of Jordan.

9.) Daniel the Canadian has ZERO chemistry with her, so you just know he will have to put on a performance tonight just so he can attend The Men Tell All Show for another 15 minutes of attention.

10.) Ali... she likes.

11.) James Taylor sees fire and sees rain... and will plays his guitar a lot this episode.

12.) Jonathan is half Scotch and half Chinese, which means Donald Trump would only half like him since he has promised his voters that we will have a war with China as soon as he enters the White House, but he can always use another caddy up at his golf course on the other side of the Atlantic. The editors inserted a black bar under his kilt, but I question if it was reeeeaaaaalllly needed, considering how much this silly show suggests stuff that isn't there. (Without Evan helping with the hydraulics issue, that is.)

13.) Santa Clause... actually Saint Nick to be specific. Jo Jo says everybody loves Saint Nick, but apparently his rivals in the mansion do not.

14.) Chase wears a temporary disguise like Groucho Marx.

15.) Jake is an architect and should not be confused with the other Jake who crashes the party later

16.) Sal brings his "blue balls" for Jo Jo to squeeze

17-19.) Coley (real estate agent), Brandon (prop guy "extra") and James S. all race past her

20.) Nick S. stops temporarily to dance

21.) Vinny brought toast

22.) Peter... Peter... well, his time was cut to mere seconds since they want to keep this under two hours

23.) There's my Evan! No discussion of his occupation, but he does declare "God bless America"... and all of those Cialis commercials

24.) Wells brings All 4 One with him to sing... and they never give him and Jo Jo any time alone inside the mansion either. Wells must have his singing buddies with him at all times.

25.) Christian brings his motorcycle, but since his intro bio was likely the longest, the frugal editors made him just an occasional peek-a-boo during the rest of the show.

26,) Of course, we must get a unicorn because Texan Luke believes they are real. Basically he just added a horn to one of his farm buddies.


Man... these dudes sure got wasted. Even bungling into her PI sessions. This season's Canadian wanted the other guys to kiss his Royal by stripping to his bikini brief. The guy obviously has spent a lot of time in the gym and wanted to show off his physique in case there is a modeling gig involved. Equally eager is Alex, accused of having a Napoleon complex because he does push ups under her. What's the big deal, guys?

You can pretty much identify who the top six or so will be simply because she actually bothers discussing them.

Derek acts all gushy and asks her if she thinks he is a "nerd". She asks him if he is "smart" and he wasn't all that sure.

Chad is a man of mystery to her... and, yeah, she likes him because he is "vulnerable" a.k.a. easy to manage.

Evan doesn't discuss erectile dis-function, but gets his belly button pushed like the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Again... I hope he stays a few episodes just so I don't fall asleep too early on Monday nights.

Ali impresses with some piano playing since the mansion prop men made sure one was wheeled in, just so we know he is more than just the Dude with Iranian parents and Martin Scorsese's eye brows.

She wasn't freaked out by Saint Nick and yanked off his beard.

She calls James... and I am really getting them all jumbled up... a "gentleman".

She loves Luke's Texas cowboy boots gift. She says Luke has "sexy confidence", which is a polite way of saying he is stubborn in his views.

There was an awful lot of Jordan during the cocktail moments. He is among those who stayed sober and made two visits with her because he felt he "failed" the first time to get a kiss. She liked his kiss and gave him her First Impression Rose... just like The Roberto whom Ali claimed she was so eager to rip the clothes off of. Speaking of Ali... the Bachelorette Ali, not the Santa Monica surfer pianist... I often wonder if Ali reappears on these shows as some sort of Bachelorette "mystic". Her influence on Desie's season was particularly interesting since the whole Brooks Storyline was eerily similar to Frankie's on her season. This makes me wonder if Jordan... like Jordan Paul in a previous season... might have a chance to be F1 after all, despite being first both in rose and limo arrival. Also his hair is a cross between Shawn and Jef with One F, both F1s in their seasons.

Alas... front-runner Jordan was accused by somebody for "not being genuine". Although I couldn't understand any of the static in the "coming up this season" promo, it seems like the guys attack him because he is just some "sports dude" who lacks a flashy occupation... or something. Yet there are plenty of shots of him in the promo so I can guess he makes top 3 at least.

I couldn't hear much during the rose ceremony, except that Jake Pavelka wanted to delay it so he could get a good look at her drones. I am technically only concerned about Evan lasting a few episodes so that he can discuss erectile dis-function some more.
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Post by Newto Tue May 24, 2016 3:27 pm

JBF - rock Great post and summary. My overwhelming feeling last night (and I did not watch the entire episode) was different characters playing the same drama with lines altered enough to fit the current cast of characters. This has become SO predictable!! Time for this sad franchise to close shop and just go away. JMHO.


Well behaved women rarely make history.
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Post by JBF Tue May 24, 2016 6:16 pm

Ooooohhhh... I wouldn't say "go away" or "close shop". Just needs a re-tooling.

It still made me laugh how fast the limo arrivals were. Sort of like the way the Oscars have been edited lately... with everybody talking extra fast in their acceptance speeches. Only here, the editors are snipping out pretty much everything the guys say when they arrive and just have some cynical narrator back at the mansion give his commentary. The overall effect was mighty weird.
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Post by Duke702 Thu May 26, 2016 12:28 pm

This season really has a large amount of super average looking to unattractive/slimy looking guys IMO (Brandon, Coley, Daniel, Evan) . How does casting randomly decide which average guys to cast. I always thought you had to be at least mildly attractive to be on this show. But for the guys I guess not. Ben's season had a lot of really pretty girls, quite the contrast. Luckily there are a handful of decent guys too though.

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Post by Guest Sat May 28, 2016 2:44 am

Duke702 wrote:This season really has a large amount of super average looking to unattractive/slimy looking guys IMO (Brandon, Coley, Daniel, Evan) . How does casting randomly decide which average guys to cast. I always thought you had to be at least mildly attractive to be on this show. But for the guys I guess not. Ben's season had a lot of really pretty girls, quite the contrast. Luckily there are a handful of decent guys too though.

who is average or handsome is subjective.
What is the taste of someone may be not for another.
it does not mean that the person is ugly or beautiful.

For girls, prods will try to select what is expected from this show plus a couple of next door girls.
Again, it does not mean that the next door girls are less attractive. For some, the natural is way more attractive.

I think it is okay to have all kind. I do not except 25 brad pitt or 25 victoria secret girls. It would be totally boring.

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Post by JBF Sat May 28, 2016 11:28 am

I think Zac has long since replaced Brad and only slightly older George Clooney as the "gold standard"...

If only some of us could look as "average" as these contestants! Trust me. The shirts will be off shortly, since these guys all spent 25 years of their lives lifting weights for the primary purpose of showing it off on TV.

One thing I found rather amusing is, despite no more racial "representation" than past seasons, TWO guys nonetheless made a big hoopty-doo in episode one about being "bi-racial"... and one even dressed in a kilt despite being "half Chinese". I was literally scratching my head what to make of all this... since the editors pick and choose what to include.
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Post by JBF Tue May 31, 2016 8:05 am

Forgot the silly show was on and missed the first 15-20 minutes. When I started  watching, the guys were all dressed as fire fighters. One was carrying her over the threshold to live happily ever after... after "rescuing" her.

Good season.

What? It is not over yet?!

Yawn... once again I feel like the editors microwaved the leftovers again.

Good to see Grant included on that group date since he is a firefighter... like the great Ryan Sutter, Bachelorette Winner Number One. Sitting down with her in the evening portion of the date, he says he will always kiss and make-out with his Little Woman every day (and add bunnies to her oven if necessary) since his job is tough and dangerous and... who knows what may happen? He might die in the line of duty. He sounds so morbid, but she laps it up.

We don't see Grant the rest of the episode, so I will focus on the obvious front runners and Drama Queens... I mean Kings.

Luke:

He sure looked like he was reading cue cards. Every season it is the same. On Group Date Number 1, the guys or girls (on Bachelor) pick straws and the lucky one gets to play Pity Me Because I Am Not Getting Quality Time With Jo-Jo. Of course he gets it and she locks lips with him. Yet it doesn't count because he did not get the group rose. What's more... this guy looks sssssooooo tired. Aren't they feeding him enough? Or is Chad hogging up all of the mansion nourishment? Luke is literally sleepwalking through his cue cards with eyes half drooped. I should not ridicule him though since he is billed "a war veteran".

Wells:

Got the group rose for reasons I am clueless about since I missed all of the action on the early part of the date. Nonetheless I like Wells. Why? 'Cause he is a skinny, nerdy dude. We see so few of these. Most are like Chad with bulging biceps, the ability to chew cast iron and spit it out like The Crusher in that Bugs Bunny cartoon "Bunny Hugged".

Also nice to see Wells get rid of those singers who keep tagging along with him. I was afraid Fleiss & Co. would need to book extra rooms on the Fantasy dates.

Derek:

He's from Iowa, the home of Prince Farming... only he got cold when winter hit and moved to Ft. Lauderdale down south.

He got the "luv is all about making choices" solo date card and repeated that line each time he had to make one... just so we wouldn't forget it. Hey! None of these guys are professional actors, but they sure try.

Then again all Derek has to do is "stand and look cute" (coining my favorite Trista Rehn Sutter line). He is Mister Dark And Handsome and it is obvious that the camera guy or gal has a serious crush on him since he is always shown from his best angles. Yet despite the airplane and the Golden Gate Bridge, his date was a snoozefest. He starts it by ruling himself out as a F1 contender by saying "this could be the first date with my wife". Key word "could" does not mean "would"... and, so far, no F1 has ever used that line but tons of Top 4 dumpees have. During his din-din at night with her, I was expecting this tear jerking back story, but all he had to say was that he dated somebody who favored somebody else and is too shy to "open up". Apparently Jo-Jo relates to THAT. "Derek and I have a lot of similarities". Oh really, Jo-Jo? Yeah... you both look good on camera.

James Taylor:

The guitarist is your all round "nice" guy who may have gotten a little too excited seeing the ESPN sign on his date. Down, boy! Down!

Like Ryan Sutter from Trista's season... and this is the second homage to him this episode following the fire fighter date... whips out some sort of poem or... something that doesn't exactly rhyme... about how he wants to please God or something... and Jo-Jo starts to cry just as Trista did over Ryan and Shamu's poem they wrote together underwater at Sea World San Diego. You know, the one that actually rhymed: "Here I am, not knowing where I stand. Here I am, looking for a place to land. My heart in the palm of her hand, A boy dying to be her man."

Chad:

He says "she needs A MAN who is ready to take care of her in a way she NEEDS to be taken care of." What? In a block of cement?

Basically Chad = Olivia last season... minus... Olivia's sense of humor and ability to actually SMILE. Just as Olivia got ridiculed about smelling bad and getting teary-eyed later for such hurtful talk, Chad gets accused of being a meat head and loading up on the salami... yet you know HE won't cry about that. Instead, he loves hearing his name mentioned all over since it feeds his ego. Heck, he didn't even cry telling Jo-Jo about Mommy passing away and he adopting her Maltese. Obviously he caused "drama" with all of the guys on the group date and continued to through cocktail hour. That is a real man for you.

According to Jo-Jo, Chad is over compensating for something he may lack. Do tell, Jo-Jo, do tell. Unfortunately Evan won't solve Chad's problem with a discount rate for his services since Chad so rudely interrupted his time alone with Jo-Jo.

Speaking of Evan...

I sure hoped he would tell the other guys what occupation Fleiss & Co. assigned him. Yet he seemed so... well... flaccid this episode. He let Chad push him around, even though the bulk of Chad exists above the abdomen and not below.

In the previews, it sounds like Chad ridiculing Evan for having kids already. Well... that is one way of knowing 100% for certain that everything is functioning OK, Chad.

Alex:

According to Chad, he is "short". All of the guys are "short" according to Chad. Chad himself may be tall in some ways, but "short" in others.

Chase:

Despite being mostly invisible apart from the passing criticism of Chad (since they all did), he had a key time alone moment with fake snow and wine that suggests potential Top 3 or 4... maybe even F1 status. Yet I think if Chase was F1, they would be showing a bit more of him than they are.

Jordan:

Amusingly he was jealous he didn't get Derek's solo date card, but... equally amusingly... his name got called first with a slight pause before the other guys got mentioned on his group date card later. To the casual viewer, it appeared he was getting a solo date too.

I was definitely feeling a F1-ish "vibe" with his edit. One interesting detail of the "Is it a clue or a red herring?" type occurred on the group date when one of the ESPN hosts declared he "hoped she will find the right guy" as the camera stayed fixed on Jordan's face. Like a few past F1s like Shawn, Josh, Jef with One F and even Jordan Paul many seasons back dealing with all of the Bentley business, this Jordan is already involved in SOME of the drama with The Villain... and Chad thinks Jordan is "weak" competition. If Chad was both funny and boasted a very high IQ like Olivia last season, his criticism of Jordan could be taken seriously. Yet already the editors want to make sure Bachelor Nation hates Chad so much that he will NOT be able to appear on the Paradise show this summer... and for good reason. The guy looks like he could overthrow the body guards and climb up the Empire State building. Jordan is the Little Engine that could... potentially... make it against the odds.

The other guys:

Because I missed the first half of the first group date, I don't know who was the first mega-star of the season whom I overlooked above. So far "Saint" Nick, Ali, Robby and Christian had modest show-ins this episode (enough to build them up later if any are potential bachelors or "hidden" F1s). Yet because the rose ceremony was such a blur to me, I am not sure which of these are still available next week.

I certainly hope our two-back-to-back nights of drama live up to the hype.
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Post by sallyny Tue May 31, 2016 9:23 am

You're correct, all war veterans deserve our outmost respect. Just to comment on Luke, he's gotten all the respect by just even attending West Point. West Point is a prestigious institution and it's graduates are highly respected. They're the Captains, Connells and Generals. Besides, he was a Platoon leader in Afghanistan. He is handsome, and musically talented too. Even if he's boring, so far as he's a good guy, I will welcome him dating my daughter any day.

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