Re: The Bachelor Season 20 - JoJo Fletcher - FAN Forum - SPOILERS - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

[Stacia620]

I agree.  I think JoJo and Ben could really have something together.  They seem so comfortable with each other and they look like they have fun. And they definitely have the most "chemistry and passion''.  JMO

[agentcurls]

"I love you too, JoJo."

Source: ABC
my own SC
(GA, is this the correct way?)

[NCGalBecca]

It's stuff like this that has me so confused..looks like real emotion to me

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‏@BachelorABC
Who is the cutest of them all?
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[Mommyof2]

Well, she is cute! , and I see real emotion between them. He is more relaxed around JoJo and he has been telling us that all season. He can just be himself and honestly, that is so important in a relationship.

[mimitalks]

For some reason I want it to be Jojo, so maybe I'm reaching. **********edited********
Note on season preview we hear voiceover over helicopter/JoJo ben helicopter kiss: This love is real. This relationship's real.

I've been watching the edit from the beginning. It always seems that they hide the F1 somewhat in the first episode. Who is hidden - a lot? Jojo - other than their first interaction (game about getting to know her) past the greeting with the Unicorn head. Interestingly, there is a shot of him wearing the unicorn head on social media that he retweeted. Who is not hidden? Lauren.

Wrigley field date: Alone date, Current Ben interest, important to him now, they are totally comfortable with each other here IMO. You don't hold each other talking in a lying position, unless you are.

During their baseball playing the "Mrs. Higgins!"right before Ben says "the crowd goes wild" seems edited in. Her drawn out "Mr. Ben Higgins!" seems it could be edited in as well. We know he says it once to her directly later in the date.

What he says to her: "Here I am at Wrigley, and I can't take my eyes off you."

What he says to her family about her: when Jojo's mom asks him what sets her apart from the other girls? I'm more myself around her - immediately, from the first time I met her - than anybody else in my life. (Interesting that she states she's never heard this up to now.) To her brothers about his relationship with her - before the antagonism they were shown to have toward him - "It's very real, more than I ever could have expected." To dad, "My feelings for her increase every time I'm around her, and there's been nothing that has held me back from falling more and more for her."

What he says to his parents about her: Jojo. Unbelievably beautiful. I'm more myself, I think, around her than anybody else here.

What he tells us about her: I'm more myself around Jojo than any other woman in my life. voiceover - Jojo and I's relationship has gone from me just being very attracted to her to developing to this very deep relationship. There's just this passion between us. later he says to us: Jojo loves the qualities in me that are more me than anything else. (voiceover) But I want her just to be confident. I want her to know how much I feel about her.

(later) on lit up marquee outside the stadium - Ben + Jojo (We see no indication either of them sees this or know its there, so no telling when that was filmed.) (voiceover as they walk into Wrigley field for night portion of the date): Being here at Wrigley field has been incredibly special to me. (to us)Jojo is someone who has continually impressed me since the day I met her. I'm confident that I'm falling for Jojo. later after saying he wants to take the next step with her (hometowns) I want to make sure she feels comfortable enough being vulnerable with me so we can build on everything we already have. Later he refers to her as the "girl I can laugh with" while speaking to her about her pulling away. He questions as to what extent her feelings are there. (Well, guess what? On FS date she says she loves him. She's confirmed it. He's been waiting for it.) Interesting she mentions loving or caring about someone more than they did. Hasn't he felt that, too? He tells us: Tonight she's allowed me to see the real Jojo. I'm very excited about what Jojo and I have. And people, before that last kiss we see a glimpse of him looking at her tenderly. They talk about staying at Wrigley until they kick us out.

She mentions how easy it would be to run in this conversation. In episode 9 she mentions him not running when things got rough at hometowns. In the previews we've seen he says "I'm not running" - around the time they are running scenes (pun unintended) about how the finale goes down. We know he says this to Amanda at one point, but she's gone now so what's the point? Running doesn't seem to apply to Lauren, but to Jojo. He says in previews for HTD as voiceover - It's more real than I ever thought - images during this phrase start with him kissing Lauren hello ends with him kissing Jojo (in closeup for Jojo). Things to ponder - things I think could point to JoJo as F1.

What it says in his blogs: Ep 9 - about Jojo: This girl made feel like nothing I had ever thought was possible...There was absolutely no doubt in my mind I was in love with Jojo.

I knew that I could trust Jojo with my heart and I wanted her to see she could trust me with hers, too. I could see this woman as my wife. And I knew our future would be incredible together.

***********edited***************

Their dates: (designed to get to know each other, most of the time alone w/camera crew, producers - except for the Vegas clip shown online) Promo for season (first episode) shows him speaking to a girl with brown hair saying, "The only way to get over a broken heart is to fall in love again". We know it was to JoJo on the brief glimpses we saw of their 1 on 1 Vegas date. What he says of her after he hands her the rose, which he says he is giving to her because she opened up and talked to him and he saw a side of her he could see something with. To us he says, starting with an I
TM then voiceover, "JoJo is a beautiful person. I like this girl, more and more each conversation, each moment, each time with her. JoJo's somebody I am falling for. She's got charisma, she's got intelligence, she's got humor. I can't think of one thing I did not like in JoJo today. (ITM) I've had the best time. Tells her he doesn't necessarily want the night to necessarily end, kisses her, fireworks abound.

Who is Ben? Do we really know? What did he want in a potential wife? I've been watching and reading interviews, early promos reading his blogs, trying to find out:

Ep 1 blog: "But in my experience in relationships so far, it has felt like I have been more invested in the relationship than the person I was dating at the time. I've had my heart broken. So until I am with someone that loves me wholly and gives themselves to me as fully as I give myself to them, it can be hard for me to know that that can happen for me."  

Jojo is not mentioned at all in the first blog. **edited**

*****edited*************

the McDonald's one aired earlier and they've started airing it again. Des says to Ben (who's having trouble deciding between food choices) "Choose wisely". Joelle's Instagram is private now, but I'm almost sure I saw that as a hashtag on one of her past images when her Instagram wasn't private. I was looking for clues. So does she see he chose wisely? especially if he chose her? **edited*********as producers want us to think - or know.

Themes I see for Jojo - it's "real" with her, he's not running from the difficulties already encountered - past boyfriend who broke her heart sending her roses, brothers being antagonistic. She has humor - that seems to be important to him, as he's mentioned laughing more, joking more. She sees this as her fairytale come true, when she realizes and hears from him that he loves her. You never see him thinking he'll end it with her after the HTD - it was about not having the brothers see who he was and getting to know him a little. The only time referenced he was thinking about ending it with her is in the voiceover before their fantasy date and that is only if he doesn't find he loves her - which we know is a farce as far as time goes - as it has been sleuthed his date with Jojo was first, not second. ****edited***********

Note: I've observed he has been able to tell always why he finds Jojo special.

beginning of episode 9 when he is talking about the final 3 women. About Jojo: And...I have Jojo. (You see him laughing with her in Dallas when she greets him, her with the swimming pigs going after her, her greeting him showing her face/hair after taking the Unicorn head off you hear the rest of the voiceover as they show pictures of them on Wrigley Field laughing, etc). From the moment I saw Jojo there was this instant connection. She's outgoing, she's fun. She opens up a whole new side of me - one that can laugh more, can joke more (they show them crouching behind the table the helicopter blew over) When I'm around JoJo I feel more myself than ever (showing the failed hi-five). I feel confident. (shows them kissing with fireworks). I feel very confident around JoJo. (fireworks only exploding). JoJo's problem? htd fiasco with brothers has him confused

Conversation with Jojo at waterfall before the I love you (with their backs to us.) Her: Can you believe we're here? I can't. Him: Yes. You doubted it. I knew we'd be here. (after the I love you's) Ben in voiceover: I feel like everything now has just made sense. Why I feel the way I do around her. We have the passion and the chemistry. She opens up a whole new side of me, one that can laugh more, can joke more.

Like I said, I want it to be Jojo. They as a couple seem "real". Why would he give up the woman who does all the above for him, who apparently has changed him in what he seems to see as a positive way? **edited** With Chres, I was almost sure that somehow it wasn't Brooks. There were clues everywhere - in the promos, interviews, etc. Also, it was becoming obvious to me Brooks wasn't "in love". One-armed hugs, conversations with his family after HTD. ****edited At this point, can it really be anything else - until they get into the real world and test it? We see them all hurting. **edited  Just saying. To me, Ben about Jojo? A man who sees himself as in love, who has taken the time to develop a "real" relationship, has been intentional in it, who knows why he is in love, can express why he sees her as different from the others to all who ask. That relationship - even within the bubble - has been tested already, to some extent. My take, for what it is worth. Does he pick Jojo? or Lauren? And what in the world really happens? We'll see in 2 weeks. I, for one, could skip WTA and go right to it. I want to know what happens to these people on a reality TV show that I don't even know personally. But we must wait...

[Guest]

Great post!

[agentcurls]

Great post!

I second that @mimitalks.
You have brought up some really great points I hadn't thought about.
I am expecting a huge let down and lots of heartache, but in my fantasy world, I would love this one to be a dark horse foiler and JoJo living happily ever after with Ben.

[Rolly]

"I love you too, JoJo."

Source: ABC
my own SC
(GA, is this the correct way?)

Such genuine surprise and then happiness. Real reaction by both of them. One of my favorite scenes and really one of the best dates ever!

[GuardianAngel]

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[GuardianAngel]

Rolly

[aviej]

Love your post mimitalks! I hope as well it's JoJo because to me as you said, that's what a real relationship looks like. But, I was burnt in the past with this show to have faith in a couple so much so that when they broke up I felt as though I broke up with them. So I'm not that invested anymore. But I still hope that things turn out well.

[Lily]

Mimitalks.. That is some post. Thank you. I will read it over and over. About the unicorn, there is a cute deleted scene about why Jojo chose to use it.. Ben is her unicorn :cutesmile!:

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