The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 4 - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

albean99 wrote:I was quite surprised at how little we saw of Jojo's date. That takes away from her being a possible lead imo.

I didn't see anything that makes me think that Ben didn't warn Becca to not come on (could have done it through S/K though). They say a lot of very complimentary things about people that they were never going to pick and you know it's just the thing they have to do. Ditto kissing multiple people that won't be around too long.

I was disappointed that we weren't shown more of JoJo's date. I guess we'll be shown the physical or chemistry edit in later episodes. TPTB have been consistent in  the delusional Olivia story, the hot twins and the Becca redemption story. Enough already!

Hmm, well JMO from what I've seen in their interactions, just believe he did tell her not to. Nothing against Becca, I think she's a nice girl. I honestly would MUCH rather her be the Bachelorette than Caila! So it's not that I don't like her.

I also don't really think Ben is that into Emily. He prob just kept her for the shock factor of keeping one twin over the other. And I think he kept Amanda for possible Bachelorette opportunity and Caila too. With this show, the lead has to keep some until the end. It's almost luck and what the producers think at some point. I doubt he liked Leah or Emliy, who we've barely seen, any more than Rachel who got eliminated. And someone has to go each week. And it's obvi that he wanted to get rid of Olivia, but producers are making him keep her.

Longhornfan wrote:Okay, I just want to address this.  Even though Olivia gave the producers plenty to work with, I am finding the Live After Show to be especially mean toward her.  And IMO Chris Harrison is helping to encourage cyber bullying.

I actually feel like CH has taken things too far, and when he showed that clip with Olivia saying what she did to Amanda (the teen mom thing), to me Olivia just came off as being socially awkward - like speaking before completely thinking things through.  I am not sure that Olivia actually meant it the way that it sounded, but none the less, it was not appropriate to say what she did.

What bothers me the most is the fact that all of this negative footage of Olivia is only encouraging people to go on SM and write horrible things about her.  I agree with whoever wrote that this will follow Olivia around and could make it very hard for her to find a job that allows her to use her journalism degree.  

Many will say that she knew what she was getting herself into, and it is true that Olivia did give them a lot of soundbites to work with.  None the less, it just seems cruel to me the lengths these producers are willing to go, in order to create drama for the show.

Good post, I totally agree. Sometimes it's hard to feel sorry for any of the contestants, they signed up for it and all that jazz, but geesh, TPTB have no morals. They have done this time and time again. With AshleyS CH couldn't say it enough times how much he loved her. The spin was different. They have total control, and they are using it to their advantage and they don't care how mean it is.

Duke702 wrote:Hmm, well JMO from what I've seen in their interactions,  just believe he did tell her not to. Nothing against Becca, I think she's a nice girl. I honestly would MUCH rather her be the Bachelorette than Caila! So it's not that I don't like her.

From what Ben has said and their interactions I see that Ben really did have reservations and so he decided that he would, as he said himself, tackled the big issues on their first date - which he did. And that's the thing... Ben talked to Becca about all the issues that CS never even got to tackle until the season was almost and completely over. And yet Ben tackled these issues with Becca on their first date. So they started on a footing where CS and Becca had left off and Becca was able to just focus on the relationship and not any virgin status or commitment or feelings issues because those were discussed on their first date.

Other than that, it is this statement by Ben that makes me realize he did talk to CS as CS indicated on Bachelor Live and that Ben has a positive view about Becca. He certainly doesn't say this about Olivia for example.

From the day she walked into the mansion I knew there was something special about Becca. I know Chris Soules felt it, too, and when you are in the same room with Becca it is undeniable.

http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-ben-higgins-blog-olivia-cake-dance

Robyn Ross ‏@RobynRossTV
I kinda think @benhiggi has a thing for smelling women #theBachelor

AllAboutLove wrote:From what I and others that have been told about the situation, Ben did not tell Becca not to come nor indicate this to her.

Until there's proof of this not being the case and he did say no, it is just a rumor like any other one that someone can make up - all of which can or can't be believed as always.

Regardless though, imo, at the end of the day, Ben himself kept Becca and seems to like her enough to call her special and say that if one met her that this is an undeniable thing about her in his blog today.


ETA: what Ben said about Becca in his blog today about being special

From the day she walked into the mansion I knew there was something special about Becca. I know Chris Soules felt it, too, and when you are in the same room with Becca it is undeniable.

http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-ben-higgins-blog-olivia-cake-dance

Just because Ben kept her, doesn't mean he wanted her there. That whole date reeked of producer set up. From the virgin getting a wedding date and conveniently handy cherries...innuendo much?..to all the questions where she could explain why she was here again and was more ready this time than last. And since Ben is such a nice guy he doesn't say anything bad about anyone!...why should she be any different?

What I am curious about is just how much of Becca we will see from now on? Up to this point, other than the "surprise" of her initial appearance, she has been a non-entity. Will she fade into the background again until she is conveniently eliminated or will we be shown more of the adult, sexy, jumping men's bones Becca?

I think it was a producer set-up as well, and was from the moment she signed on to do the show. Beyond the virgin-as-bride angle, just how easy is it to get an extremely flattering wedding gown that fits you like a glove on short notice? Think about how many fittings most brides have to go through.

Sprite wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:From what I and others that have been told about the situation, Ben did not tell Becca not to come nor indicate this to her.

Until there's proof of this not being the case and he did say no, it is just a rumor like any other one that someone can make up - all of which can or can't be believed as always.

Regardless though, imo, at the end of the day, Ben himself kept Becca and seems to like her enough to call her special and say that if one met her that this is an undeniable thing about her in his blog today.


ETA: what Ben said about Becca in his blog today about being special

From the day she walked into the mansion I knew there was something special about Becca. I know Chris Soules felt it, too, and when you are in the same room with Becca it is undeniable.

http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-ben-higgins-blog-olivia-cake-dance

Just because Ben kept her, doesn't mean he wanted her there. That whole date reeked of producer set up. From the virgin getting a wedding date and conveniently handy cherries...innuendo much?..to all the questions where she could explain why she was here again and was more ready this time than last. And since Ben is such a nice guy he doesn't say anything bad about anyone!...why should she be any different?

What I am curious about is just how much of Becca we will see from now on? Up to this point, other than the "surprise" of her initial appearance, she has been a non-entity. Will she fade into the background again until she is conveniently eliminated or will we be shown more of the adult, sexy, jumping men's bones Becca?

I am not sure how much more we will see of her but Ben described Becca on Ellen today as "sincere". He seems to think very well of her. In contrast he described Olivia as intense and his words and the way he talked about her one can tell he doesn't care for Olivia that much. I don't see Becca being seen by Ben as anything negative like Olivia at all and he even said in his blog how he liked how she calmed him when he was doing couples' vows. That and being someone special are all positive things. No matter what happens, Becca has more fans than ever from viewers and positive response from the majority of Bach nation alums, including Sean and Cat again this week with his most tweeted tweet of all the tweets (yup, ).

I have the same opinion as Ben on Becca and other than the stuff that all these contestants have done/do/will do, Becca to me is not even close to one of the worst contestants on this show, let alone being a returnee. She's more normal to me like Lauren B and I found that Ben's conversations with Lauren B, Jubilee, and now Becca to have the most depth and substance to them and talking about (as Ben said) big issues and real life issues that relate to reality and not just reality tv.

jmo

I don't think for a minute Ben was being dishonest in any way, but it's not like he (and TPTB) didn't know Ellen would play the describe in one word game, and that he wasn't well prepared with answers that follow the edit we are seeing without giving anything away. I think his one word description answers have to be taken with a grain of salt for all of the women and don't really see them as any real solid evidence of what he felt for who. JMO

^ Ben's response to each of the women was, imo, exactly how he sees them and goes along with what he said in his earlier blog and also in interviews that how people are on the show is not just "blame the edit".

When Ben described Olivia he came across like he did not like her at all!! His body language and word association was definitely not PC at all, imo, and Ben is someone that has shown that if is is not okay with something he speaks up or makes a point of it - just like he did with Kaitlyn and not wanting to spin his wheels with her. One even saw his impatience with Olivia in this last episode.

One thing Ben seems to not like at all is drama and Lauren B reiterated this herself in interviews. Becca is not part of the drama at all. Ben even said she helped calm him.

AllAboutLove wrote:^ Ben's response to each of the women was, imo, exactly how he sees them and goes along with what he said in his earlier blog and also in interviews that how people are on the show is not just "blame the edit".

When Ben described Olivia he came across like he did not like her at all!! His body language and word association was definitely not PC at all, imo, and Ben is someone that has shown that if is is not okay with something he speaks up or makes a point of it - just like he did with Kaitlyn and not wanting to spin his wheels with her. One even saw his impatience with Olivia in this last episode.

One thing Ben seems to not like at all is drama and Lauren B reiterated this herself in interviews. Becca is not part of the drama at all. Ben even said she helped calm him.

I watched that clip and the last few interviews that he gave, including the after, and what I noticed is that Ben looks much more comfortable in front of the cameras than he did at the start of his promotions for this season.

I'm not disputing that those were his thoughts on the women, but he didn't seem surprised by the question and his response was much more unresponsive, if that makes sense. I remember his JK appearance where Jimmy is making his predictions and I felt as if I saw him visibly trying to control his reactions to the pictures. This time, not so much. I believe guests going on talk shows usually do a little rehearsal if you will, where they discuss what they will be talking about...promotions, questions the host will have, etc. I think Ben is much better rehearsed prepared this time around.

As for Ben speaking his mind, well, I think that depends. He can certainly do that, but only up to a point...just like any lead or person on the show. If he could, I'm sure the twins, Olivia and a whole bunch of other people would be long gone. They have a show to put on and only speak up when necessary...for the producers to push their storylines. That is why we had Andi yelling at JPab, Chris crying for Andi to let him go, Kaitlyn crying about being blindsided and Ben's spinning his wheels speech. All were auditions for the next lead. I'm not saying they weren't feeling this, but probably got encouragement from producers to "show us how you really feel" so that these segments could be edited into the show to help the audience "fall in love" with the next lead. I'm waiting for the next.

Ben describing the women in one word on Ellen:

Lauren B. -- "Sweet"
Caila -- "Sexy"
Olivia -- "Intense"
Becca -- "Sincere"
Lace -- "Honest" (He had to think about that one for a moment)
Jubilee -- "Depth"
The Twins -- "Funny, Down-to-Earth, and [something]"
JoJo -- I can't remember, but it was very flattering.
Amanda -- Can't remember, something positive but low-key

He also said that seeing the show now, he understands why Olivia often seemed upset with him.