The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 3 - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

I definitely don't justify what Amber did, but can just see the producers pushing her to confront Jubilee last night. It's hard to excuse someone who's done the show (& BIP) and has to know what it will look like on tv. Of course she shouldn't have been willing to do that just as a person because it was mean and uncalled for. I was also disappointed in Jojo last night for her part. Becca appeared to be in that group so am wondering how that played.

I'm glad the girls will find out some of Jubilee's backstory next episode. She seems like someone who can rub you the wrong way and I could see that happening with the others. I loved her date but I'm not so sure I like her personality at times. She's coming across as moody to me with her ups and downs. I still like her but not hoping for her to be the next lead. I could see her on BIP though.

reason wrote:Was Jubilee not in the army?  If so time is of the essence for them.  If you are going on a date being on time is showing respect too.  20 mins is too much waiting around especially if those woman act so catty who knows being around would get even a pig anxious.

Except she's in the bubble of time almost being non-existent on this show, which is anything but regimented, structured, or even really able to be so and the entire experience is waiting around all day for hours on end for everything.

Besides, what would make one assume Ben had any part/responsibility/control over/etc. whatsoever about the timing, nevermind to then get snarky about it basically as the first impression on the very first date they have together?

Producers need an extra segment filmed or an interview goes long...technology glitches...weather or lighting get funky and something has to be staged or reshot or redone altogether because the first 'take' didn't or couldn't work...lighting falls down/sparks/birds fly into the person speaking on camera (all things we've seen happen in outtakes or blooper shows)...and on and on and on.

It's virtually ALL sit around and wait on someone or something or just for anything to happen, things going off schedule, things taking longer than they should, all day, every day, all filming long.

Heck, the number of times CH alone makes things run late/long - speaking from experience of seeing him at many tapings - is crazy!   You'd not believe all the times they have to reshoot the various darn line or two segments that he uses every single episode and every single ATFR/MTA/WTA and now even the Live shows is unbelievable...and he says them, often with the same inflection for decades now, and he's "professional host."

Besides, I think temperament was at least equally at play for her.

After all we even had a lead for an entire season - who was still in active duty as an officer in the Navy - manage to deal with the utter lack of structure and ability to expect any sort of adherence to a set time table that inevitably is filming anything - but this show in particular.

If Jubilee is that much of a stickler for schedules and things being perfectly structured and carried out, whether from temperament or from her time in the military, then she should NOT have signed up for this IMO.

see2love wrote:It was a boring episode for me tbh. Lauren B is cute and likeable but very boring. So was Ben on that date with her. Jubilee's comment should not have been taken that seriously imo and it was all much ado about nthing.
I cant say she uses her past as a crutch because she lived it and s still livng it so in essence it will always be her crutch and its not my place to determine how long her past should affect her for.
Amber was sp out of line in this episde and was a mean girl and Jojo joined the mean squad tonight.
Olivia is deluded and it sure will blinside her when she is dropped from that high horse.
The dates in all have been underwhelming and even the villains are not villing enough. I hope the season picks up somewhat  going forward.
I really couldnt care less who the F1 is at this point.

I second this post. I understand where Jubilee is coming from. I understand her sense of humor. Look around her and you can see why she was surprised she got the 1 on 1. I mean is she being delusional for thinking she is not what Ben wants, I think not. Is she the 1 token that the producers cast every season, yes.

One thing that annoyed me a lot in this episode (and previous episodes, previous seasons) is TPBP need to paint the lead as some sort of hero. There's no way flight attendant Lauren, who wants to get her pilot's licence was scared of flying in that small airplane. And no way war veteran Jubilee was afraid of going in that helicopter. There was no need for the "I was so scared but Ben calmed me down and helped me face my fears!!!!" edit.

Ben IMO comes across as genuine , caring person, making a real effort to hear every lady out on their issues, having real conversations. No need to force more with the edits and scripts.

Fingersandtoes wrote:I never actually realized what a challenge being a bachelor/bachelorette is, Ben is trying to be so mindful of all the girls that he seems to be wearing out. He seemed to be released when Lace left; one less needy woman to babysit.

From a guy's point of view, babysitting a bunch of crying / emotional / catty women can get tiresome and leave one desperately searching for a safe haven where he can just enjoy someone's company. Other male leads (before Ben) have commented on this, as I suspect Ben will by the end of the season. At least so far I haven't seen Lauren B serving up heaping platefuls of drama to Ben and perhaps this is part of the attraction. IMHO she's not the first female F1 "contender" who has been pretty "drama free" and it served one of the previous ones who stayed out of the fray (Catherine) very well.

We also have to keep in mind that the producers understand how women compete and they will play on each woman's "hidden claws" to bring them out as that's what makes the show (at least that's how they see it). If there's cattiness buried inside, they'll find it and show it and IMO have little compunction against showing an F1 in an unfavorable light.

And we also have to keep in mind that Ben doesn't see during filming what we get to see during airing - in most cases the lead isn't aware of all that goes on when they aren't around until we all see it as the show airs.

guys, I can deal with the 'boringness' of this season (I personally don't find it boring) as long as Ben ends up being genuinely happy, does that sound cheesy? 
I really want a Bachelor couple to end up getting married for real, this engagement for few months and breakup route is really annoying. they probably don't care, but it takes all of fans' energy for n o t h i n g.

This episode made me unbelievably angry last night. I've never felt so emotionally invested in a contestant ever on the bachelor/ette as I do Jubilee. These girls are AWFUL. They can all GO, I dislike them ALL with the exception of lauren b. because I didn't see her do anything but the others were so catty and mean girls - esque. I DON'T CARE whether they know her backstory or not, that's not an acceptable way to treat people.

Also i'm SO SICK of people making things about them when in all actuality it has nothing to do with them. My entire life i've gone through having to put up with people making comments about me being stuck up or a b*tch because it's hard for me to interact with people I don't know. If I know you, I could talk to you about anything forever and if I don't I'm ridiculously socially awkward so it makes me closed off because I don't want to say the wrong thing. And people including my own family will think that just because i'm aware of this, that it makes it easier to put myself out there, it doesn't.

And this notion of jubilee 'using' her story to get ahead is so far off base IMO, BEN brought it up, HE continued probing on a topic that was clearly uncomfortable for her to talk about considering she pretty obviously didn't really get into the details. UGH this episode made me so mad.

Olivia is now "Oblivia" to me, but it wasn't right for the other girls to start picking apart her appearance in order to disparage her. Criticize her behavior, ladies! I have to keep remembering that they're all very young, so hopefully with age will come some wisdom.

I suspect Jubilee's history and life experiences are so very different from most everyone else in the house, and she has probably experienced that for much of her life, and I think it puts her immediately on the defensive, which may account for the sarcastic humor (which unfortunately didn't seem very funny, and I think went over everyone's head as a result). As to whether it was racist, I'm not so sure. I wonder if Oblivia ( ), Lace or even one of the other less annoying gals behaved the exact same way, whether the reaction and comments would have been any different. I think not. The producers encourage the catty, competitive behavior.

Ben is doing a great job as the lead, IMO, and seems to be a sincerely nice guy. He recognized that the lead sets the tone in the house, and he's taking that role seriously, which I love, but I hope he realizes that he and production are working at cross purposes, and he doesn't beat himself up for the women continuing to fight with each other.

ironcat wrote:Olivia is now "Oblivia" to me, but it wasn't right for the other girls to start picking apart her appearance in order to disparage her.  Criticize her behavior, ladies! I have to keep remembering that they're all very young, so hopefully with age will come some wisdom.

I suspect Jubilee's history and life experiences are so very different from most everyone else in the house, and she has probably experienced that for much of her life, and I think it puts her immediately on the defensive, which may account for the sarcastic humor (which unfortunately didn't seem very funny, and I think went over everyone's head as a result).  As to whether it was racist, I'm not so sure.  I wonder if Oblivia ( ), Lace or even one of the other less annoying gals behaved the exact same way, whether the reaction and comments would have been any different.  I think not.  The producers encourage the catty, competitive behavior.

Ben is doing a great job as the lead, IMO, and seems to be a sincerely nice guy.  He recognized that the lead sets the tone in the house, and he's taking that role seriously, which I love, but I hope he realizes that he and production are working at cross purposes, and he doesn't beat himself up for the women continuing to fight with each other.

Left olivia out in my rant but i thought the way they talked about her appearance was disgusting. These girls are awful.

I cannot wait for Sharleen's blog this week! I always love her perspective.
Why oh why didn't Ben snatch that rose away from Amber????

A lot of the whole gang up on Jubilee scenes last night was clever editing. Yes, a lot of the girls were upset that someone who already had a rose was taking more time, but I could see nearly all the moments that were edited to make it appear worse than how it really was.

As a matter of fact, the whole episode appeared, to me, a little more over edited than most.

And what was wrong with Jubilee telling Bn he was late? If the person you are going on a date in real life turns up late would it be a crime to point that out especially being a time concious military person. I like when comtestants dont treat the Lead like demi gods and act like they would n a real life sitiaution as opposed to the ones who always say the right things, never question the Lead and are very agreeable to everything the
Lead says/does.
Let him see you, flaws and all and you may have a better chance of the relatinship lasting outside the bubble. IMO.