The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

As I recall, tptb love to make f1 believe that she's in jeopardy and work overtime convincing f2 (and f3 for that matter) that she is the one.... because they want to be sure they get tears. I haven't really gotten the impression that Jojo is easily manipulated- but then I don't really know her and perhaps all the "you know what this is about" is just building us up to think that tptb have nothing to do with her emotion at the end.

At the same time, I fully believe that they try to keep the lead off balance, too. So, they inject just the smallest bit of doubt into Ben's mind regarding Lauren. He doesn't really believe it, so he sends Leah packing. But tptb have gotten the desired effect- that little seed of doubt in Ben's mind which they will play up whenever possible (I can hear it now "JoJo is so real.... but are you really sure you're seeing Lauren properly?")

And it all depends whether Lauren can watch or not- Catherine was able to, but then she new, for certain, that Sean had not had sex with anyone in the fantasy suites- and she has incredible perspective on the whole thing. I do hope Lauren watches her parts, though, so she can see what all see in her facial expressions (those gooey, "I'm in love" ones).

relaxing wrote:

bluwavz wrote:TPTB has a chance here to show they're not sexist if Ben's FS antics are revealed just like they were for Andi and Kaitlyn. Oh who am I kidding? They'll let Ben get a free pass and probably won't let JoJo say a thing about it at the ATFR. We can't let Ben's perfect image go down the tubes! The male leads are ALWAYS catches and don't you think otherwise. The female leads, you ask? Eh they're disposable and can be tossed aside.

JMO.

  Well said and I so agree.  I'm still surprised that there wasn't outrage about what they did to Kaitlyn.  The gender bias on this show astounds me especially since most fans are women.  So if they are going to throw Ben under the bus a bit for how he handled his F2, that is warranted.  It happens to the women every season.

Why should there be outrage? Nobody did anything to Kaitlyn that she didn't give them. While the producers are certainly bias, this is not news. Nobody is forced to go on the show or sleep with someone they barely know that is also dating a whole bunch of other people...on tv for the whole world to see. The show has been around long enough that people should know what to expect and if they don't, they are incredibly stupid and want attention more than keeping their dignity and self respect.

I don't see why any woman in this circumstance at the AFTR doesn't confront the lead head on. It's not like they can stop her. Yeah, they can edit it out, but there is an audience there who would hear what she has to say and it would get out nevertheless. They can threaten to sue, but let's face it that would only serve to let the cat out of the bag even more and tptb really don't want to go there. In the end, it would probably end up giving them even more publicity.

Sprite wrote:

relaxing wrote:

bluwavz wrote:TPTB has a chance here to show they're not sexist if Ben's FS antics are revealed just like they were for Andi and Kaitlyn. Oh who am I kidding? They'll let Ben get a free pass and probably won't let JoJo say a thing about it at the ATFR. We can't let Ben's perfect image go down the tubes! The male leads are ALWAYS catches and don't you think otherwise. The female leads, you ask? Eh they're disposable and can be tossed aside.

JMO.

  Well said and I so agree.  I'm still surprised that there wasn't outrage about what they did to Kaitlyn.  The gender bias on this show astounds me especially since most fans are women.  So if they are going to throw Ben under the bus a bit for how he handled his F2, that is warranted.  It happens to the women every season.

Why should there be outrage? Nobody did anything to Kaitlyn that she didn't give them. While the producers are certainly bias, this is not news. Nobody is forced to go on the show or sleep with someone they barely know that is also dating a whole bunch of other people...on tv for the whole world to see. The show has been around long enough that people should know what to expect and if they don't, they are incredibly stupid and want attention more than keeping their dignity and self respect.

I don't see why any woman in this circumstance at the AFTR doesn't confront the lead head on. It's not like they can stop her. Yeah, they can edit it out, but there is an audience there who would hear what she has to say and it would get out nevertheless. They can threaten to sue, but let's face it that would only serve to let the cat out of the bag even more and tptb really don't want to go there. In the end, it would probably end up giving them even more publicity.

Oh I completely disagree on this.  I was referring to playing audio of intimacy from behind a closed door obtained from I guess a really strong boom mike outside the door or really perceptive mikes dropped to the floor.  Totally crossing a line.  TPTB have insinuated sex often and could have easily done it there plus still had Kaitlyn actually talking about it etc to make it clear that it happened.  To play what they did was unacceptable IMO, crossed a line and there should have been outrage on Kaitlyn's behalf at what they aired.  The whole fall-out - fair game, sure, but we didn't need to hear that to know what happened.

relaxing wrote:

Sprite wrote:

relaxing wrote:

  Well said and I so agree.  I'm still surprised that there wasn't outrage about what they did to Kaitlyn.  The gender bias on this show astounds me especially since most fans are women.  So if they are going to throw Ben under the bus a bit for how he handled his F2, that is warranted.  It happens to the women every season.

Why should there be outrage? Nobody did anything to Kaitlyn that she didn't give them. While the producers are certainly bias, this is not news. Nobody is forced to go on the show or sleep with someone they barely know that is also dating a whole bunch of other people...on tv for the whole world to see. The show has been around long enough that people should know what to expect and if they don't, they are incredibly stupid and want attention more than keeping their dignity and self respect.

I don't see why any woman in this circumstance at the AFTR doesn't confront the lead head on. It's not like they can stop her. Yeah, they can edit it out, but there is an audience there who would hear what she has to say and it would get out nevertheless. They can threaten to sue, but let's face it that would only serve to let the cat out of the bag even more and tptb really don't want to go there. In the end, it would probably end up giving them even more publicity.

Oh I completely disagree on this.  I was referring to playing audio of intimacy from behind a closed door obtained from I guess a really strong boom mike outside the door or really perceptive mikes dropped to the floor.  Totally crossing a line.  TPTB have insinuated sex often and could have easily done it there plus still had Kaitlyn actually talking about it etc to make it clear that it happened.  To play what they did was unacceptable IMO, crossed a line and there should have been outrage on Kaitlyn's behalf at what they aired.  The whole fall-out - fair game, sure, but we didn't need to hear that to know what happened.

I didn't need to know that Trista had never had an orgasm during sex, but I found out.

I didn't need for them to intimate that Ed couldn't get it up either, but they did...followed by fireworks when everything supposedly worked.

I didn't need to see bare a**ed Ben and Courtney in the ocean having sex? No, but I did.

As for the sound, what did they expect? That all the production people would just leave when they decided to go for an early romp? Have they seen the show? I agree it is tasteless, crass, gross, etc., but not exactly unexpected. This show is always OTT. Even when they are given a lot to work with, they have to take it up a notch. I could have done without the sound effects, but as I wrote above, there are plenty of moments from this show that I could have done without. This is no more or less outrageous than others and I don't see why her delicate sensibilities should be protected just because she is a woman. Kaitlyn wanted what she wanted, when she wanted. She said she is a grown a** woman who has nothing to apologize for.

Sprite wrote:
snipped

I didn't need to know that Trista had never had an orgasm during sex, but I found out.

I didn't need for them to intimate that Ed couldn't get it up either, but they did...followed by fireworks when everything supposedly worked.

I didn't need to see bare a**ed Ben and Courtney in the ocean having sex? No, but I did.

As for the sound, what did they expect? That all the production people would just leave when they decided to go for an early romp? Have they seen the show? I agree it is tasteless, crass, gross, etc., but not exactly unexpected. This show is always OTT. Even when they are given a lot to work with, they have to take it up a notch.  I could have done without the sound effects, but as I wrote above, there are plenty of moments from this show that I could have done without. This is no more or less outrageous than others and I don't see why her delicate sensibilities should be protected just because she is a woman. Kaitlyn wanted what she wanted, when she wanted. She said she is a grown a** woman who has nothing to apologize for.

ITA with every word. To add to that, at the time, she was being praised in the media for being a women and not ashamed of her sexual activities. She had media interviews high fiving her. She herself had indicated in her blog, that this process enabled her to make sure that the F1 was really the F1, Andi as well as praised for the decisions she made. She's a woman and she's going to do what she wants, TOG is the one who got reemed over the coals. I didn't need to hear Clare complain about her sexual activities which she apparently was fooled into thinking if she had sex then she's the F1? Sort of like Andi/Nick. but in Clare's case JPG was shredded in the rag mags. In each case there were a lot of SM hateful and hurtful comments, but that's not any different than any other season where it's about the villain, something stupid someone did, or whatever.

I'm a woman, however, it works both ways. If the guys get ripped to shreds in the media, the women should as well. There's a double standard for sure, IMO at times it's not in the guys favour. There's camera's and mic's everywhere. Both parties are just as responsible for their behaviour and no one is immune to scrutiny. That's what they signed for on the dotted line, they can be used in any manner TPTB seem fit and there are very few exceptions. IMHO.

I'll just agree to disagree and leave this as my last comment on this since it's old news and off topic ...  TPTB crossed a new line and it shouldn't have been allowed by the network from my perspective.  In the cases you mentioned the people were in front of a camera crew with eyes and lenses and voluntarily got naked or talked sex.  And the Ed thing was based on an on-camera conversation between he and Jillian that they could manipulate to insinuate things which they do all the time.  Completely different than airing actual audio from behind a closed door of people who had taken their mikes off and were alone.  TPTB could have still showed all about Kaitlyn's terrible decision easily.


And I don't think Kaitlyn has delicate sensibilities that need protecting. I think she is a woman whose rights, even in this setting, were violated in a way not done before on this show.   Not liking her or her behavior doesn't make what TPTB did right. It has nothing to do with if she "deserved" it or gave them the opportunity.  Have they ever aired intimate sounds from a FS?  Not that I recall.  But she had sex on her terms not the shows, so she "deserved" it.  Crazy.  JMO. Oh, and I feel the same that it was horrible to Nick too.

relaxing wrote:I'll just agree to disagree and leave this as my last comment on this since it's old news and off topic ...  TPTB crossed a new line and it shouldn't have been allowed by the network from my perspective.  In the cases you mentioned the people were in front of a camera crew with eyes and lenses and voluntarily got naked or talked sex.  And the Ed thing was based on an on-camera conversation between he and Jillian that they could manipulate to insinuate things which they do all the time.  Completely different than airing actual audio from behind a closed door of people who had taken their mikes off and were alone.  TPTB could have still showed all about Kaitlyn's terrible decision easily.


And I don't think Kaitlyn has delicate sensibilities that need protecting. I think she is a woman whose rights, even in this setting, were violated in a way not done before on this show.   Not liking her or her behavior doesn't make what TPTB did right. It has nothing to do with if she "deserved" it or gave them the opportunity.  Have they ever aired intimate sounds from a FS?  Not that I recall.  But she had sex on her terms not the shows, so she "deserved" it.  Crazy.  JMO. Oh, and I feel the same that it was horrible to Nick too.

I absolutely and 100% agree with this!

If Kaitlyn didn't want the sex used against her maybe she should have kept it in her pants until the FS. She could have easily avoided this. Instead Kaitlyn did what she wants like always.

Maybe this situation will be a signal to future leads and contestants not to have sex until you are actually left alone.

A lot of leads have had sex before the FS though. Most times, we never even knew about it and other times, it was just alluded to or implied. This was the first time that the sex was actually recorded. I don't know how Kaitlyn could have expected that or been prepared for it. JMO.

Also, according to Jesse C, you're still recorded in the FS so you're never really left alone. To be safe, you have to wait until after filming. How many leads have done that? Like 5? JMO.

You're NEVER left alone and not recorded on the show. They allow no time outside of their earshot. IMO it's too much for them to keep that in mind at all times, we want to see the people as relaxed and normal as possible.

Tiggerlgh:
There is usually one mag that gets the real scoop.  If I am remembering correctly it can vary season to season from Us Weekly, Life & Style, etc.  so it's sometimes a guess who has the real scoop.

I went back to pull a handy manual for tabloids from cfck who used to post tabloid arcs several seasons ago. Her genius posts sifted through the trash to find the thread of truth in the stories. For the most part, yes, tabloids are gossip; as with all gossip, there's some speck of truth in it that's been smothered in exaggerations and, at worse, flat-out lies. The trick is to find the truth.

cfck2222:
Top tier: People - PR spin from publicists. Info comes from reliable source but is only the version they would like you to know, which may or may not leave out a lot.
US Weekly - they go a little dirtier, and play the game of sometimes punishing people who don't feed them info with negative coverage. With respect to the Bach/ette, they've nailed a lot of stories including the Ed cheating on Jillian and Jef/Em clustermesses. They also negotiate special features with reality show celebs (their 2 most recent covers are about Snooki's weight loss and Wynonna Judd and her husband coping with a serious injury he suffered in an accident).

Next tier:
In Touch/OK/Life&Style: One of these mags (it's been Life & Style since Ashley Hebert's Bach'ette season, prior to that it was OK), is on the receiving end of strategic leaks from Bach/ette production during the season, and therefore grants favorable coverage to the lead and the season's good guys/girls. The other mags in this tier generally punish the lead/contestants for this cooperation with their competitor by posting nasty, distorted, and generally false stories about the lead and the lead's relationship with the F1. They change positions after the season is over and the lead/contestants negotiate their own feature coverage/start leaking info to individual tabloids. So, you have to read their stuff selectively. Generally though they are on a lower level of reliability than People/US.

Bottom tier:
Star = joke.

Using this info, I'd venture to say that US Weekly is the favored source this season. Here's julychild's post that summarizes the article; if I get a chance, I'll screenshot it for everyone later:

julychild:

Just browsed the Us Weekly article at the store. Summary:

* Ben professed his love to 2 women after they said it first
* Told one behind closed doors at the hotel that he'd known he loved her for a while
* Next day, "shocked" another one by saying the L word back, during a date to some rain forest
* Show insider claims Ben has the ability to love more than one person at a time
* Ben makes matters worse by sleeping with all 3 girls in FS
* 3 girls felt they were the one, because it was a bid deal for a Christian to sleep with them (or something like that)
* He "regretted" saying ILU to 2 girls
* Ben's parents liked one woman more than the other, which Ben had to take into consideration. Family's opinion is important and all of that...
* Was conflicted even while buying rings
* Girls didn't know how torn-up he was
* Ben tells F2 during breakup that he really does love her, even though he made a mistake to say it.
* F2 was "devastated"
* Crying, crying, crying
* Went through hell, but it was worth it at the end

Here are the week's tabloid covers: 2 of 4 have Ben on them, with only 1 cover story.




Source: http://jezebel.com/this-week-in-tabloids-duchess-kate-is-probably-having-1758325461

cfck formerly commented that strategic leaks were made by TPTB during the season. These leaks intend to support the on-screen narrative or to set the stage for the post-season relationship status of the lead/next lead. I'd venture to guess that the leak to US Weekly was intended to keep audiences engaged since it's likely that Ben+Lauren's connection will be undeniable. Lauren by and large is running away with Ben's heart. At the same time, however, if they did divulge all of this information, including FS behaviors, I'm left to wonder about the state of Lauren and Ben's relationship presently. Yet to be determined.  

When I can read the article and view tonight's episode, things might start making sense. At the moment, I see these leaks more as prep work for JoJo as the next Bette.

Oh how I miss those detailed tabloid recaps. I didn't buy an actually magazine for a solid two years. Lol