The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

Thanks.

JBF wrote:None of us are predicting anything. We are just speculating various scenarios.

Note that I keep saying... "IF"... ha ha!

Yeah, it could be a very predictable ending. I'm certainly not holding my breath for any "surprises"... but who knows? Harrison INSISTS on something we have never seen before on this show. I guess he means Ben's eye brows. Yeah, that is a unique feature, unlike Tierra's on Sean's season. Cute how we get the tweet of Ben and Lauren as Cinderella and Prince Charming right on cue. Why we would not see that coming?

I would guess this surprise that we have never seen before is he calling his mother

^^^I think the same thing! Looks to be a good finale!!

Just watched that clip from bachelor live. Note that Chris H says that he told two women he was in love with them and that had never happened before on the Bachelor. We know that's not true

So we can stop spinning our wheels about the thing TPTB say has never happened before because Chris H has told us what they think it was.

Miyala wrote:I would guess this surprise that we have never seen before is he calling his mother

I like that theory and it makes more sense than anything else. My guess that he does call his mother to tell her that he has resolved his "confusion" of loving two women, knows who he will pick and (perhaps) who he will propose to, and we'll see it after he has sent his F2 home and before he meets his F1.

moonchild wrote:Someone (maybe in a different thread) said on Monday that the Monday night episode would be the pivotal episode for Ben.  How right they were.  

Leah not only planted the seed of doubt in Ben's mind, but also in the minds of the viewing audience.  We had the tweet plastered up on the screen about Ben and LaurenB being just like Prince Charming and Cinderella.  We have Leah telling us that she needs to take down the one with the strongest connection to Ben....LaurenB. We have Leah telling Ben how he might be misjudging the person that he has the strongest connection with ....LaurenB.  We have LaurenB telling her friends in the house that Leah is trying to destroy what she and Ben have.  Her friends are acknowledging the LaurenB + Ben connection.  A little bit too much LaurenB is the one for it to be straightforward at this point.  But Leah plants that seed of doubt and LaurenB and JoJo both have meltdowns because they just don't know where Ben's head is now, setting up the big showdown and Ben's continued confusion.  They had to put that in just so the viewers will get it that Ben is confused and doesn't know who to choose in the end.  

Ben is not the first Bachelor or the first lead to tell two that he loves them.  Andy Baldwin whispered to Bevin that he loved her on their LCD.  He caught a lot of flack about that and defended it by saying there was a difference between loving someone and being "in love" with them.  So that isn't the thing that happens for the first time in Bachelor history.  Every single lead starts off the Neal Lane segment with they are in love with two people and don't know what they're going to do.  I do think that everything is there for letting his true F1 go and immediately regretting it, just as JBF has mentioned previously.  The phone call is probably to his Mom.  I don't think they would give us a phone proposal.

If this scenario or similar plays out, we will still see the beautiful proposal and the happily ever after.  There won't be the fall out that Jason and Molly went through because Ben doesn't propose to someone else and then break up with them on national TV.

I also have this sneaking suspicion that something else goes down.  Is there SC evidence of 3 FD's?   Maybe he lets everyone but the F2 go after HTD'S????

I do confuse many here... not you, of course. Yet some here may think that I am cooking up some windy all-over-the-place scenario here for the finale. In addition, I am only suggesting a POSSIBILITY here, not a "certainty". Good grief! None of us have crystal balls here! You think I am out to make You-Know-Who angry again so he can mock me and others on his cute little blog? I am perfectly fine with a Boring Finale like everybody else and all "spoilers" being written in STONE.

What I was... SPECULATING here... S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-N-G... was some sort of Jason Mesnick/Jesse Palmer combo. Nothing TOO elaborate here. Lauren, for various reasons, might arrive at FRC first and Jo-Jo second because Ben is TEMPORARILY confused in his decision-making (like Jason, but unlike Jesse... his season was impacted by his F2 puking in her limo). It is not like he suddenly falls head over heels in love with Jo-Jo, but something about Lauren confuses him late in the game and this prompts an... almost... mistake of sorts.

The fact that Becca ALSO told him of his strong connection with Lauren in this last episode, as well as "evil" Leah, hints that Ben may NOT be as AWARE of it himself... as the ladies and we the viewers are... just yet. The editors left those scenes in the edit because Ben only says he is "comfortable" with her, but is still saying this other gal "could my wife", "I could see my life with this one too", etc. Heck, he even acted like Caila's dopey talk of "I may break your heart" was This Big Turn On!

Again... this boy can't decide between breakfast and lunch at McDonalds. When ex-Bachelors Mesnick, Soules and Lowe left him in episode 1, he looked like he might cry... because he needs THEM to help him make a decision!

Special Note: I do not believe for one second that this TV show is 100% "reality". I think all of these people are being "coached" by handlers. There is always some sort of storyline... outline, of sorts... in the making from the very beginning.

Ben is like so many other leads in that he is walking through a "fog". Desie was "blinded" by Brooks, Ashley Hebert was all "Bentley! Bentley! Bentley!", Tierra had Sean wrapped around her finger at least through St. Croix (although I never "bought" that relationship, since he was constantly giggling around Catherine in the few scenes we were given.) Benny Boy's storyline is that "I can't make a decision! I am so confused!"

I am sure Jo-Jo is like Chris Soules' Whitney: the Safe Choice. The one he can easily see a life post-show, even if he isn't particularly "gooey" about her. Lauren is more like Becca... and fittingly it was Becca who pointed out his connection with her first... and, of course, Chris Soules was doomed with Becca in his finale. Remember that looooooong "last chance date" we had to slog through?

However Ben is still not Chris and Lauren is still not Becca, so we are not necessarily getting the same ending... and necessarily expecting Ben to break up with his finalist like Chris did.

I am S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-N-G that he MAY... just may... potentially go into FRC ready to choose The Safe Choice, then struggles... and some sort of turnaround of events happen in the final hour. You can imagine Mister Harrison hopping up and down with glee with his live audience over all of Ben's LITERAL indecisiveness.

Remember when Andi gave Josh that silly line about how "I guess it is love that I felt with you all along"... lah dee dah. Well... replace it with Ben saying "I realized which one I loved once I said goodbye to her!" Sean's season also went along this similar theme right after the hometown dates, when he was indecisive between Catherine and Desie and had to choose which one he would miss the most "saying goodbye to".

Simply put, Ben's season is just recycling themes from past ones and taking them in a different direction... so that they have a different finale. Think of this as Mike Fleiss stuffing leftovers from Chris Soules' ("challenging" Becca vs. "safe" Whitney), Sean Lowe's (Catherine being the one he couldn't say goodbye to even if it took them a while) and Jason Mesnick's (switcheroo) into his microwave and heating them up as Ben's season.

WHEWWWW! I hope I haven't lost EVERYBODY here. Again, this is all speculation. I am not PREDICTING the ending here. Just thinking of possible scenarios that match the promos and the way they are marketing this season with an emphasis on Ben's indecisiveness.

I'm with you JBF, there is some sort of something going on during the FRC. Why is Jason Mesnick brought up a few times now starting with MF's tweet when filming ended real time. He said paraphrasing, best season since Jason Mesnick.

Jason went to Tanner and Jade's wedding, without Molly and sat next to Ben. Why would Jason even be at their wedding.

Jason was ignored for a very long time by TPTB. He and Molly went through hell with no support from them. Suddenly it's the best season since Jason.

I'm not saying theirs a switch ATFR like Jason's, but it could be he lets Lauren go, then changes his mind. I started to compare words that Ben says and Jason says, but it was late last night.

Off the top of my head, never been so conflicted, how could I ever let you go but I have to, Molly- big mistake, Ben, big mistake, I don't want to say goodbye. I will compile a list for comparison later tonight. I know a lot of these things are said however, never has MF compared a season to Jason's, or anyone else that I can remember. Lets see how long it takes for the media to pick up on this, courtesy of BBF.

ETA: I also started to compare limo's, one facing one direction and the other facing the other direction, wondering if it's just flipped, or if there were two different limo s/caps.

Hi GA, on the limo I am pretty sure it is a flip. He has his hands at exactly the same level on both, same look on his face... I am ready to bet a lot it is a flip

I concur that it looks like a flip. I think @albean99 pointed out the other day that his pocket square would be showing if were, in fact, a non-flipped photo.

Even the background (waterfall, trees, flowers...) are flipped

You know... it is not like what I am speculating is That Big Of A Deal. The finale may be different than all others, but not THAT different.

All leads at least act indecisive in the finale so that we are all in suspense. Yes, some make their decisions early, but others are still sorting the options up to the end. You have to understand that they are dating multiple people in a two or three month period and have a lot going on in their heads. "I love this one more, but see an easier life-style post-show with that one, etc..."

Since their seasons have been "referenced" the most, I keep thinking this season is some sort of combination of Soules/Lowe/Mesnick boiled together.

Again... he MIGHT have a switcheroo like Mesnick, but obviously it will NOT happen on the After The Final Rose Show, but right away... before any SERIOUS damage is done. He really is split between two ladies, but it might be a head vs. heart sort of thing (which a couple seasons have stressed).

Also we get a bit of Soules' struggle between Becca and Whitney. He almost chose Kaitlyn over Becca in Bali! That is why some like me were still a little shocked about Kaitlyn's departure because she had a very strong relationship with him. Yet Becca had him under her "spell" so to speak.

Sean Lowe said multiple times that Catherine was the one he knew he would miss the most, which is why he spared her over Desie after the hometown dates. Maybe this is how the handlers felt Ben should approach this: decide which one he can not say goodbye to... THEY saw his connection greater with Lauren than with Jo-Jo even if HE couldn't and decided to "test" him... with the option to change his mind at the last minute.

Also... if... ha ha!... I always say "IF"... this switcheroo DOES happen at the last minute, I can EASILY see how Chris Harrison handles the finale with his interviewing.

To Ben: "What was it about Lauren that prompted you to change your mind about Jo-Jo?"

Ben would respond: "I suddenly realized I could not live with out her... just as I was saying goodbye. I knew there was still a chance to go after her..."

Kind of like that Sleepless In Seattle scenario... or It Happened One Night with Claudette Colbert running off with Clark Gable just as she was about to marry somebody else.

I really like the way they are editing Jo-Jo as this show's "shrink". We have seen her listening to Caila, Jubilee and even Olivia voice all of their problems as the understanding listener. She is the perfect F2 (like Bill Pullman's Walter in Sleepless In Seattle), who will not hold any grudge against Ben suddenly changing his mind and "following his heart". You just KNOW she will be there with the happy couple on The Couch with Harrison.

I mean... I am only speculating here, but does any of this seem possible, folks?

sophienette wrote:Even the background (waterfall, trees, flowers...) are flipped

Hmm ...

Why show one limo flipped to make it look like two different limos if indeed there were two different limos? Seems to me something that TPTB would do to make it look like there are two different limos when in fact there was only one ...