Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #7

chasingpavements wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Maybe because he realized, that despite going back to his "old" life after 1st stint, despite not having done anything to profit from his first Bette round, he was still called the fame*** and the dude who wants attention and girl-pants ... that now he can do whatever he wants to do, with no concern of the people watching, because the backlash is going to be the same.
So he can profit this time from his 2nd stint, take the experience for another spin for some financial gain, use the attention for own benefit, since he was used by others just the same.
He would be a fool if he wouldn't. Use it. Otherwise it was all for free and for nothing.

I don't know, I think that's somewhat backward thinking. People think he's a douche, so he should just be a douche? What about having integrity and just doing the right thing?

Who determines what is "the right thing" in situations like these? We could debate endlessly on if Kaitlyn did the right thing by Nick. Or if the producers have done the right thing by Nick. Since we are talking about Nick specifically however, what things has he done that might question his integrity?

Return to a show that took advantage of him a year ago to pursue a woman he had a crush on?
Support said woman through a very public scandal even though she broke his trust and his heart?
Question same said woman in a calm and honest manner regarding the way in which their relationship ended?
Give post show interviews to answer questions regarding his intentions and reasons with regards to his failed relatinonship?
Answering questions about how it made him feel when his ex-girlfriend and her new fiance mocked and laughed at his pain on television for all to witness?
Answering questions about why his ex-girlfriend's attitude might have changed from loving him to showing obvious distain for him?
Spending time with new friends and people that he met as a result of the failed relationship?
Posting modeling photos of his hot physique in an attempt to quench some of the gossip that he is "gross", "eeeww" and "unmanly"?

I am not really seeing anything here to speak to a lack of integrity really. He did all of those things with grace, humility and maturity IMO.

I've never been a fan of someone who goes on TV because they act like they don't want to be on TV.
Makes no sense to me.
ALL of these guys go on TV to be on TV.

Whomever is the next lead is going to be lead because they want to be on TV.
Simple as that to me.
All of them can find love off of TV, they are choosing (and getting paid) not to.

chasingpavements wrote:Fair enough. He lost me as a fan, but I'm certainly not telling anyone else how to feel.

Honestly, I do feel like Bachelor fans have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to their faves. I remember the same thing when Reid cheated on his girlfriend (she deserved it! she was too immature and attention-seeking for him!) or when Arie slept with Courtney and went on that pap stroll (he doesn't owe Ben anything! That's not even staged, paps totally hang out at random parks in scarsdale!). I'm all for fangirling over people, but they are HUMANS. They all make mistakes and I think it's silly to excuse and justify every single one of their actions.

CP, I fully agree with you regarding the humanness of all the contestants. And I definately get your disappointment to find out about Nick's "bar life strategies". But as you said, he is human and is going to make less than perfect decisions. I think that the reason why some people continue to stand by Nick despite his poor decisions at times, is his honesty. He is upfront about who he is and what he is about. He is transparent, straightforward and candid. He does not pretend to be someone he is not and likely would be among the first to admit his faux pas. That is why I still like him.

**edited**

Guys, I just think it's icky to use your D-list celebrity to get women to sleep with you. I think it's icky to post 485 underwear pictures when you are a 35-y/o mediocre looking  sales rep. And, I think it's icky to bad-mouth your ex in tabloids. I know that there are people who don't think it's icky and even think it's admirable that he's doing that. That's fair and I don't think we will ever agree. I still think he handled himself on the show well, but I'm not liking Nick post-show. I've always said that I'm harder on my faves, so maybe if Josh or Shawn were doing this, I would roll my eyes and move on. With Nick, it's a little bit harder because I really did expect more from him.

OnePromise wrote:

*Snipped*  Your value should not be defined by what others think of you.  Do you.  Be you.  And do not be ashamed.  

That might be my favorite quote I've ever seen right there.  Sheer brilliance!  

I firmly stand in the corners of all human beings who live their lives unabashedly.  If they are being REAL and TRUE to themselves than who am I to judge.  If that means partying all night and crashing weddings...knock yourself out.  If it means picking up women by introducing yourself as "XXX from the Bachelor" knock yourself out.  As long as that's who you REALLY and TRULY are.  Then do it and make no apologies (which I don't hear anyone doing).  Whether or not I choose to like you or be a fan of yours is up to me...and that's really more about me than you.  

I give props to Nick & to K&S for continuing to put one foot in front of another and living out their lives the way they see fit.  Besides....it's not like I think they care what a 37 yr old married woman from MN thinks about them anyways!  

All JMO.

Oh me...I am so afraid if N is chosen,  trying to have fun here will be nearly impossible. Mods you better say your prayers. Snark doesn't bother me but too much analyzing and analyzing and back and forth is just not my cup of tea.   Sigh.

ETA: I just don't come here to spend all my time in a fan thread.

chasingpavements wrote:**edited**

Guys, I just think it's icky to use your D-list celebrity to get women to sleep with you. I think it's icky to post 485 underwear pictures when you are a 35-y/o mediocre looing sales sales rep. And, I think it's icky to bad-mouth your ex in tabloids. I know that there are people who don't think it's icky and even think it's admirable that he's doing that. That's fair and I don't think we will ever agree. I still think he handled himself on the show well, but I'm not liking Nick post-show. I've always said that I'm harder on my faves, so maybe if Josh or Shawn were doing this, I would roll my eyes and move on. With Nick, it's a little bit harder because I really did expect more from him.

I learned long ago that sometimes in life you just have to agree to disagree.  There's a lot of people in this world that demand to have the last word (I'm usually one of them), so I've found myself walking away from specific threads occasionally in here for a day or two so that I don't continue an argument/disagreement where neither party can win.  That's the easiest way for me to handle the situation...otherwise I tend to want to have to have the last word which will likely lead to my post being deleted and/or a warning from a mod.  That's not happened to me....yet....     Good Luck to you!  It's not easy to have an unpopular opinion, imo.

My point is ... yeah, he changed ... he changed the way he deals with things and how he embraces things that come his way ... I don't really think he has changed ... because his personality and his character seem the same to me.
The moral of the story is ... that I'm not here to be the moral judge of his life. What he should or shouldn't not.  Because I'm not paying his bills, I don't share his bedroom and I don't have to "suffer" him as a person or help him pick up the pieces when he is sad and lonely ... because I bet those moments come even in his life. So people deal with their own "demons" and fears in their own way. He will make mistakes. I don't justify them. But I do believe he has every right to do them if he isn't hurting anyone else (and so far I don't think he has ... even with whatever is being reported in the media, since things are still questionable) and I believe only he has to learn something from it...
but if someone here can learn something from Nick's mistakes, so much better.
At the end, for his own peace, he will have to fix them, he will have to face the consequences. And if that means that some people will turn their backs and stop calling themselves his "fans" ... that's fine, that's their right and I'm not going to fight against, because I'll just might do the same the day he won't "serve me". At the end, it's his wish ... whether he wants to have the fans and how many ... whether to dance on their tune to fit their impression... or follow his own inner-voice and whatever happens, happens.

I have enough already when I have to listen to my own parents telling me what I'm supposed to do and how I should be acting to fit certain criteria ... and I would be really sick&tired of having to hear one more person that doesn't live my reality telling me how should I embrace it, if I didn't ask for their opinion. That's why I have no fans.

leselihau wrote:

chasingpavements wrote: **edited**

Guys, I just think it's icky to use your D-list celebrity to get women to sleep with you. I think it's icky to post 485 underwear pictures when you are a 35-y/o mediocre looing sales sales rep. And, I think it's icky to bad-mouth your ex in tabloids. I know that there are people who don't think it's icky and even think it's admirable that he's doing that. That's fair and I don't think we will ever agree. I still think he handled himself on the show well, but I'm not liking Nick post-show. I've always said that I'm harder on my faves, so maybe if Josh or Shawn were doing this, I would roll my eyes and move on. With Nick, it's a little bit harder because I really did expect more from him.

I learned long ago that sometimes in life you just have to agree to disagree.  There's a lot of people in this world that demand to have the last word (I'm usually one of them), so I've found myself walking away from specific threads occasionally in here for a day or two so that I don't continue an argument/disagreement where neither party can win.  That's the easiest way for me to handle the situation...otherwise I tend to want to have to have the last word which will likely lead to my post being deleted and/or a warning from a mod.  That's not happened to me....yet....     Good Luck to you!  It's not easy to have an unpopular opinion, imo.

Yep!  This is great.  Afterall, this board is just our speculations of reality.  I do not know or have not met any of the contestants... I do not know their intentions, motivations or the true nature of their characters.   And in the end, although interesting, entertaining and intriguing to speculate about... That is really all we are doing, right, speculating?

chasingpavements wrote:

Nibbles22 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:Yeah, I think that Nick has changed unfortunately. Like he told the guys when he came back, after Andi's season he went back to his normal life - he hung out with the same old friends and went back to his boring job of sales. This time, not so much. He's using the "I'm Nick from the Bachelor" to hook up with girls, he's speaking to tabloids about S/K, and he's posting incredibly douchey underwear pictures that he's about a decade too old for. I wish that someone close to him would just tell him to stop. I still think he's a good guy, but the fame and attention has gotten to him. It's probably what JJ said - he's someone who's probably been ignored coming from such a huge family and this is his way of standing out.

How has he not gone back to his normal life.  He's back at work, he still hangs with his friends, he's made new friends from the experience, he's been offered modeling opportunities, again that's more work, more income.  I haven't seen anything indicating he is using his status to hook-up with women because he's 'Nick from the Bachelor(ette)'.  Does he have people actually following home, and making note of alleged hook-ups?  I'm curious as hell about that.  Also, if random fans of the show see him out and about, and he leaves a bar with someone, does that qualify as a hook-up?  Wow, if so, I've hooked up with more men in my life than I realized!

Anyone can look at my post history and see that I was one of the biggest Nick defenders here. I am not being biased here. I have heard firsthand accounts of him using "I'm Nick from the Bachelorette" to hook up with girls. I didn't believe it when RS posted a couple of reader emails saying the same thing, but it's much harder to ignore when it's someone you know IRL, who has no feelings towards Nick whatsoever, who is saying that. I don't know why that's so hard to believe, honestly. 90% of guys from the franchise do that and Nick had sex with a woman on a first date. He's obviously not opposed to casual sex.

I don't find that hard to believe, because Nick is a sexy, and single man.  As far as having sex on the first date, it was well known that K & N had an established relationship prior to the show.  To what extent, none of us will actually know unless someone opens their mouth.  As far as the rest, I'm not going to condemn anyone on hearsay.

happygolucky wrote:My point is ... yeah, he changed ... he changed the way he deals with things and how he embraces things that come his way ... I don't really think he has changed ... because his personality and his character seem the same to me.
The moral of the story is ... that I'm not here to be the moral judge of his life. What he should or shouldn't not.  Because I'm not paying his bills, I don't share his bedroom and I don't have to "suffer" him as a person or help him pick up the pieces when he is sad and lonely ... because I bet those moments come even in his life. So people deal with their own "demons" and fears in their own way. He will make mistakes. I don't justify them. But I do believe he has every right to do them if he isn't hurting anyone else (and so far I don't think he has ... even with whatever is being reported in the media, since things are still questionable) and I believe only he has to learn something from it...
but if someone here can learn something from Nick's mistakes, so much better.
At the end, for his own peace, he will have to fix them, he will have to face the consequences. And if that means that some people will turn their backs and stop calling themselves his "fans" ... that's fine, that's their right and I'm not going to fight against, because I'll just might do the same the day he won't "serve me". At the end, it's his wish ... whether he wants to have the fans and how many ... whether to dance on their tune to fit their impression... or follow his own inner-voice and whatever happens, happens.

I have enough already when I have to listen to my own parents telling me what I'm supposed to do and how I should be acting to fit certain criteria ... and I would be really sick&tired of having to hear one more person that doesn't live my reality telling me how should I embrace it, if I didn't ask for their opinion. That's why I have no fans.

Happy, you need some roses... A whole bunch. Love It!

The problem is, IMO, that we fall in love with what we are seeing on limited screen time and SM and not seeing the whole person. We don't know these people, really. So invariably, when they do something stupid, we feel betrayed or else seek excuses why they act the way they do. That judgment, IMO, should be reserved for those we personally know. I don't know Kait, Shawn or Nick. I go to the message boards to complain about what I don't like about them or what I do but really, I guess my judgment is flawed and only based on superficial things.