Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #7

by AllAboutLove Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:04 pm

chasingpavements wrote:Being on the other side of Nick fandom, I'm starting to understand why certain people feel very unwelcome and uncomfortable on this forum. It's hard!

Guys, I just think it's icky to use your D-list celebrity to get women to sleep with you. I think it's icky to post 485 underwear pictures when you are a 35-y/o mediocre looking sales rep. And, I think it's icky to bad-mouth your ex in tabloids. I know that there are people who don't think it's icky and even think it's admirable that he's doing that. That's fair and I don't think we will ever agree. I still think he handled himself on the show well, but I'm not liking Nick post-show. I've always said that I'm harder on my faves, so maybe if Josh or Shawn were doing this, I would roll my eyes and move on. With Nick, it's a little bit harder because I really did expect more from him.

I know it is Nick's own fault and all that jazz that he went back on that show, but I don't know of one person who could have gone through what he went through two times and come out the way he has... and this time around with more viewers liking him.

It is easy to judge someone, but until one has lived in their shoes and gone through those experiences one can always say how they should or shouldn't be.
We are just a week post-ATFR. It is early days yet and Nick is still being spoken of and in the possible lead position.
Once that is announced then I will see where Nick is at. It's too early, imo, to tell where Nick is at.
This is a guy who was being made fun of and laughed about for his heartbreak.
He himself said he is the world's biggest joke.
I couldn't imagine what he is still going through.
So until a month or two is gone by, I am going to cut him some slack.

by happygolucky Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:30 pm

*edited*

Guys, I just think it's icky to use your D-list celebrity to get women to sleep with you. I think it's icky to post 485 underwear pictures when you are a 35-y/o mediocre looking sales rep. And, I think it's icky to bad-mouth your ex in tabloids. I know that there are people who don't think it's icky and even think it's admirable that he's doing that. That's fair and I don't think we will ever agree. I still think he handled himself on the show well, but I'm not liking Nick post-show. I've always said that I'm harder on my faves, so maybe if Josh or Shawn were doing this, I would roll my eyes and move on. With Nick, it's a little bit harder because I really did expect more from him.

It's always like that. We expect more and wish more from/for people dear to us.
Regarding the photos ... I don't know what to add to this whole debate ... but I've seen very sexy/provocative pictures of Beyonce this week, as the advertisement for some product (because sex sells)... I've seen famous CEO in not most glamorous state being photographed by paparazzi ... Nick at least got to be payed for his photos, got some doors open with them ... and if that brings him some happiness in his life in whatever form, I guess at the end it isn't a mistake for him.
Regarding bad-mouthing ... that's very debatable, since I haven't seen any evidence that what is reported came actually from his mouth ... and even though it could be the truth, it's his truth, that nobody needs to care about, except if people do care what he says ... and NO, it's not admirable, not in my eyes.

The problem is, IMO, that we fall in love with what we are seeing on limited screen time and SM and not seeing the whole person. We don't know these people, really. So invariably, when they do something stupid, we feel betrayed or else seek excuses why they act the way they do. That judgment, IMO, should be reserved for those we personally know. I don't know Kait, Shawn or Nick. I go to the message boards to complain about what I don't like about them or what I do but really, I guess my judgment is flawed and only based on superficial things.

to the bolded. Judgment ... personally would wish it to be in the hands of the higher power ...whose profession is to judge. Others form opinions, criticize and suggest ... but no matter how well we might know someone, oftentimes is much easier to form an opinion and share the advice or criticize someone when we don't have to live their life.

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:51 pm

Who determines what is "the right thing" in situations like these? We could debate endlessly on if Kaitlyn did the right thing by Nick. Or if the producers have done the right thing by Nick. Since we are talking about Nick specifically however, what things has he done that might question his integrity?

Return to a show that took advantage of him a year ago to pursue a woman he had a crush on?
Support said woman through a very public scandal even though she broke his trust and his heart?
Question same said woman in a calm and honest manner regarding the way in which their relationship ended?
Give post show interviews to answer questions regarding his intentions and reasons with regards to his failed relatinonship?
Answering questions about how it made him feel when his ex-girlfriend and her new fiance mocked and laughed at his pain on television for all to witness?
Answering questions about why his ex-girlfriend's attitude might have changed from loving him to showing obvious distain for him?
Spending time with new friends and people that he met as a result of the failed relationship?
Posting modeling photos of his hot physique in an attempt to quench some of the gossip that he is "gross", "eeeww" and "unmanly"?

I am not really seeing anything here to speak to a lack of integrity really. He did all of those things with grace, humility and maturity IMO. [/quote]

Amen say it

by mysthelma Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:55 pm

Damn it's getting crazy up in here, Nick does inspire such passionate opinions of him.

The guys has taken a beat down two seasons in a row and still can't act a break.

I will cut him some slack, maybe this modelling thing and new changes is his way of coping with his heartbreak. It's not as if he quit his job completely

Maybe we should allow these people to live their lives without soo much judgement. We are all flawed and if we are to be put in the spotlight our flaws will only get magnified.

And as for tapping into opportunities after being on this show who is to say if we are in these peoples shoes we will not do same

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:56 pm

happygolucky wrote:My point is ... yeah, he changed ... he changed the way he deals with things and how he embraces things that come his way ... I don't really think he has changed ... because his personality and his character seem the same to me.
The moral of the story is ... that I'm not here to be the moral judge of his life. What he should or shouldn't not. Because I'm not paying his bills, I don't share his bedroom and I don't have to "suffer" him as a person or help him pick up the pieces when he is sad and lonely ... because I bet those moments come even in his life. So people deal with their own "demons" and fears in their own way. He will make mistakes. I don't justify them. But I do believe he has every right to do them if he isn't hurting anyone else (and so far I don't think he has ... even with whatever is being reported in the media, since things are still questionable) and I believe only he has to learn something from it...
but if someone here can learn something from Nick's mistakes, so much better.
At the end, for his own peace, he will have to fix them, he will have to face the consequences. And if that means that some people will turn their backs and stop calling themselves his "fans" ... that's fine, that's their right and I'm not going to fight against, because I'll just might do the same the day he won't "serve me". At the end, it's his wish ... whether he wants to have the fans and how many ... whether to dance on their tune to fit their impression... or follow his own inner-voice and whatever happens, happens.

I have enough already when I have to listen to my own parents telling me what I'm supposed to do and how I should be acting to fit certain criteria ... and I would be really sick&tired of having to hear one more person that doesn't live my reality telling me how should I embrace it, if I didn't ask for their opinion. That's why I have no fans.

by mindless Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:57 pm

Eh, maybe it's because I don't put any of these people on a pedestal to begin with, but I don't expect that much from them. I like some more than others and some I truly dislike. They can do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt others or act in a manner I find wholly unfair or disrespectful. Nick hasn't done any of that IMO. His worst "offense" was outing Andi's sexploits, but I can't feel bad for her, since she used him and then wanted to discard him like a paper towel. And if you have sex on a TV show, then use should be prepared for it to come out one way or another. If you don't want that to happen, then don't have sex.

But stuff like hooking up with women who are willing while single and trying to get over heartbreak? I don't see what's wrong with that. To each their own. If they hop into bed with him because he's "Nick from the Bachelorette" then they probably enjoy the bragging rights.

He also hasn't posted hundreds of pics of himself in underwear, just a few from the same photo session. Who does it harm? Right, no one. So what's the problem?

He's handled himself in mature and gracious enough manner to pass my likeability test. I also think he's an interesting person and has the ability to make you think. I've thought that since his first date with Andi. Thanks to him we've had discussion we've never had before about this show, and the press has as well. He's simply good TV. So until he screws someone over or kills a puppy, I like him.

by AllAboutLove Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:06 pm

Amen Mindless.

I don't put Nick on a pedestal and never have. He has plenty of faults and failings and he himself has never pretended otherwise. Others might paint him as perfect but he certainly never has and he has said he makes waves not ripples.

Kaitlyn gets praised and defended for being real but she laughs at someone's heartbreak that she helped cause? One thing Nick can never be accused of and that's breaking someone else's heart and then laughing about it like Kaitlyn and Shawn have. In the grand scheme of things that's what matters most to me and that's more important to me in determining someone's character.

by bleuberry Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:15 pm

Sometimes the criticism has nothing to do with Kaitlyn, Shawn, Andi, or anyone who has wronged the precious snowflake. Like allllllll of the people from the franchise who are polarizing (or just downright hated), none of them are kicking puppies or stealing from the homeless (Andi, Soules, JP at one point). Hopefully in a year, Nick will be old news and back to his life (for real this time). And then we'll be on to the next guy/gal who some love and others love to hate. Wash rinse repeat. :yes:

by Ladybug82 Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:24 pm

Great post mindless!

Nick isn't on the top of my favorites list, but he's not on the list of those I don't care for at all from Bach nation either. He's somewhere in in the middle of like/dislike list, more good than bad. He has his moments where I really like him, then others (favoriting immature, snarky tweets about Shawn, etc.) where I'm not too fond of him.

For the most part, IMO his behavior towards Andi and Josh was deserved based on their behavior towards him. Same for Kaitlyn and Shawn, to an extent after Kait started rewriting history and acting as if both he and their relationship didn't exist. But if he does become the Bach, he needs to remember his actions and attitudes towards the girls cast will dictate how they and others will think of and react to him. JMO.

by Kashathediva Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:30 pm

I agree with you LB82. I usually do. :Nod: (don't tell anyone I pay you a stipend to post my opinions, our secret.) Hugesmile

TPTB are going to use his past storyline for his own if they take him on. My opinion only, but it is too easy to not do so. I wouldn't be surprised if they pay both his F2 to reject him, also. If not this it would be a great foiler to ^ ratings for the FRC.
If ABC were smart they would then do a Bad Penny Nick spin off. The Trials and Tribs of Bad Penny Nick. People love Bad Penny or love to hate Bad Penny. Either way he is always turning up.

by happygolucky Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:39 pm

bleuberry wrote:Sometimes the criticism has nothing to do with Kaitlyn, Shawn, Andi, or anyone who has wronged the precious snowflake.

I don't find him the precious show-flake ... he is special to me, for whatever reason he brought change into my life, but he isn't a special person, he is just like everybody else, like most of us, nothing below or above.
And I agree ... the same as my criticism of Kaitlyn, Andi, Shawn or whoever is not based on my feelings for Nick, but their own actions.
Mostly I have a problem with the lead not saying "I'm sorry" at the end of the game ... because with the admission that "you wish you could have done it differently" (lead someone on, which IS part of the game people sign on or judge someone without knowing) ... you don't deny your true feelings, neither do you say that you wish for a different final choice, but you say "I'm sorry" ... "because I've played you, just the way I had to for this game".
Since I'm not the one they ever needed to apologize to ... I only believe they aren't people I would personally want to deal (or play) with.

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:51 pm

Just listened to JJ's podcast with Stassi -

- said it was basically over on day one and it was always going to be Shawn.
- felt that Nick was completely sincere in his feelings for Kaitlyn, which you could tell by his body language after he got rejected. He said that he was able to get a lot of the guys to like him because of his confidence, the way he talked, and how he always held eye contact. Said that it was very obvious that he was completely caught off-guard.
- Said that Kaitlyn didn't do the right thing by letting him propose. He said that producers asked him and the other guys to do a bunch of stuff, and you can always just say no. Said that there wasn't really anything that they could have done to her if she said no.

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Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - Spoilers - Sleuthing - Discussion #7

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Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - Spoilers - Sleuthing - Discussion #7

Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - Spoilers - Sleuthing - Discussion #7

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Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - Spoilers - Sleuthing - Discussion #7

Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - Spoilers - Sleuthing - Discussion #7