Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #7

chasingpavements wrote:He REALLY did not hold back about bad-mouthing these people. Went after Clare and Ashley I (so for those of you though he was "joking" in that tweet about them...nope), REALLY went after Joshua (called him stupid and ugly), called Jonathan and Mikey stupid, defended Joe a bunch of times, etc.

*sigh* I think that my Nick crush is completely over. I get why he gets on peoples' nerves.

I did not feel at all that Nick "went after' Clare and Ashley I, he just commented and pointed the truth of what all of us are seeing... plus was complimentary of Ashley I's owning it as well...absolutely nothing wrong with that, IMO
Joshua has been "going after" Nick since he came on the show, I do not see any different from Nick commenting on his views of Joshua, and he did call him a sweet guy also, just not knowing how to handle that what he does not know, etc The expression " A tool short of the tool shed drawer" is not a bad thing to say, specially if it is true... (same as "A French fry short of a Happy Meal) Talking about the other guys on BIP or on The Bachelorette, his season, was nothing to raise and eyebrow about. He expressed his opinions, which he was asked about... and did it in a frank and genuine manner. Loved that interview, personally. I am sad that you are giving up on your Nick-crush completely CP...I hope you give him another chance? maybe? :cutesmile!:

leselihau wrote:I have to say that maybe my favorite line of the whole podcast was when Nick is talking about Jared & Clare bungee jumping and Nick said that Jared decided that halfway through the bungee jump he went "Nope, this isn't going to work."  I snorted when he said that.  HYSTERICAL!

OMG, I agree! I thought that was so funny, because that is exactly what I thought at the moment they were jumping, and Clare started screaming and clinging on to Jared! I said to myself...'hmmm I do not think Jared was too crazy about that' ...It was very weird, IMO and super funny!

california90 wrote:Soo.. I missed a lot. What's happening? Summary?

I think I missed a lot too because i'm not very much into BIP, byt obviously Nick is into in.

I didnt see the full list of his recent activities, but it doesn't matter to me because I never thought he is a perfect guy and never defend him, I just like him as who he is - a normal dude and real dude.

I like him, there are moments when I adore him, moments when I'm impressed by him, moments when I find him extremely pleasurable, but I have never crushed on him, he isn't the guy I would dream to have for a boyfriend ...

and not because he isn't good enough or not attractive for my taste or because he keeps making choices that I don't necessarily agree with or that I wouldn't dare/think to do, but because I know my personality with someone like Nick's would be a disastrous match.

So I'm just happy seeing him walk his walk ... I'm curious where it takes him ... and I try to be observant what it leaves consequently behind and what comes to fruition from his actions.

OnePromise wrote:

bleuberry wrote:Personally I don't care what their prior 'heartbreak' is like, and I'm using that word loosely because I don't think he was truly heartbroken over getting dumped by someone he dated a handful of times. So because he had the sadz, he can do/say whatever now? I'm honestly surprised that this kind of pass exists. Emily lost her fiancé/BF, some of these people lost spouses, parents, etc. and Nick is just so special and can say whatever while he mends his broke  heart...  

His backhanded compliment of Ben was not lost on me, that is classic Nick. Attempting to build himself up while pretending to stay classy.

See Blu, I hear Nick's statement about Ben H. being able to admit he doesn't have it all figured out as a compliment.  IMO, Nick values raw honesty and the ability to look at yourself in reality.  I think that what you saw as a backhanded compliment, was not intended to be backhanded at all.  He fully ment it as the highest form of compliment.  

ITA. I thought it was a great compliment, but then again I've always thought the biggest sign of wisdom is knowing, and being able to admit, that you really don't know much at all. Thinking you know it all and that older people are just being condescending is either stupidity or immaturity. Often found in people in their early 20's. Then as years go by you either realize you were immature or you keep being intimidated by things you don't know, like say Joshua. The fact that Ben at 26 is self-aware enough to know he hasn't got it all figured out means he's got wisdom. Obviously no one has it all figured, which is what Nick also pointed out, but Nick is surely further along simply because he has 8 years more of life experience and relationship experience. He didn't say anything about it making him a better Bachelor than Ben though. Let's not put words in his mouth.

It seems like anything other than "He's great! I love him" is interpreted as an insult, even when it (IMO) clearly isn't. I appreciate hearing well-rounded opinions rather than platitudes that tell you nothing, but to each their own.

edited to bow out...

chasing....please don't leave. I understand the frustration, but I so appreciate your ability to look beyond the "tv character" and make a fair, unbiased opinion on things.

Like someone said "it's just a show"...and at the end of the day these are just people from the show....it's not like they're your family or close friends. I try to remind myself of this when I get frustrated!

chasingpavements wrote:Just want to point out that many people who are complimenting Nick on being honest had a problem with Kaitlyn/Shawn, Andi, and Josh bad-mouthing him all season. Why is nick refreshing but the others are cruel?

I had a problem with all of them, btw. A little kindness and compassion never killed anyone.

The way I view it ... when one bad-mouths the other, is usually because one doesn't think highly of the other, add to that the sense of superiority ... as if the one is better than the other ... and that brings trouble...
I personally haven't heard Nick make a comment where he would say that he is better than the other ... he did mention, while talking about Ben H., that he has more years behind him than Ben, saying that he figured some things out by now, but to me it didn't sound as an implication that he is better than Ben ... only that he is a better version of himself today than what he was 8 years ago.

OnePromise wrote:Sore winners just don't do it for me.

leselihau wrote:He "lost"?  I'm going to go with JP's stance on this....this is not a game show...there are no "winners" and "losers"...they're just people who at the end of the day had to make a choice based on who they thought they were a better fit with.  

And sore losers just don't do it for me anymore than sore winners.  Two wrongs don't make a right...

I'm reminded of Nick's statement in the podcast about those who are the most critical of him and those who are the most fanatical about him.  I can't remember his exact wording but imo, it sounded like he figures they're cut from the same cloth.  It's those who can see clearly without blinders on that he appreciates.  He's not infallible...he's human.  He's made mistakes, he's owned them, and he's moved on.  I can't give him a pass at things just because I like the guy.  

ITA    ... and he said that he doesn't pay attention/listens/reads/cares of what people say/write about him ... because if you want to "soak" in all the praises and "I love yous" ... then you have to accept all the negativity too ... which he does not - paraphrasing.

mindless wrote:

OnePromise wrote:

bleuberry wrote:Personally I don't care what their prior 'heartbreak' is like, and I'm using that word loosely because I don't think he was truly heartbroken over getting dumped by someone he dated a handful of times. So because he had the sadz, he can do/say whatever now? I'm honestly surprised that this kind of pass exists. Emily lost her fiancé/BF, some of these people lost spouses, parents, etc. and Nick is just so special and can say whatever while he mends his broke  heart...  

His backhanded compliment of Ben was not lost on me, that is classic Nick. Attempting to build himself up while pretending to stay classy.

See Blu, I hear Nick's statement about Ben H. being able to admit he doesn't have it all figured out as a compliment.  IMO, Nick values raw honesty and the ability to look at yourself in reality.  I think that what you saw as a backhanded compliment, was not intended to be backhanded at all.  He fully ment it as the highest form of compliment.  

ITA. I thought it was a great compliment, but then again I've always thought the biggest sign of wisdom is knowing, and being able to admit, that you really don't know much at all. Thinking you know it all and that older people are just being condescending is either stupidity or immaturity. Often found in people in their early 20's. Then as years go by you either realize you were immature or you keep being intimidated by things you don't know, like say Joshua. The fact that Ben at 26 is self-aware enough to know he hasn't got it all figured out means he's got wisdom. Obviously no one has it all figured, which is what Nick also pointed out, but Nick is surely further along simply because he has 8 years more of life experience and relationship experience. He didn't say anything about it making him a better Bachelor than Ben though. Let's not put words in his mouth.

It seems like anything other than "He's great! I love him" is interpreted as an insult, even when it (IMO) clearly isn't. I appreciate hearing well-rounded opinions rather than platitudes that tell you nothing, but to each their own.  

Exactly. I do think it is an age thing (which is different from just maturity). It's hard to admit and I will admit when I was in my 20s I knew I didn't have things figured out but I certainly thought I had them more figured out than those older than me. It was only when I had more life experience under my belt that I looked back at myself (who was pretty mature for a young adult in her 20s going through med school, etc) and I would laugh at my 20+ year old self and find her endearing because, after those years of life experience, I could see how my world view was limited (and I have lived in many countries and experienced many things so that's not what I mean) but purely limited by distance traveled over time... age really does have an impact on perspective and a comfort in one's skin that can't be shaken. It's just a knowing that any valleys will lead to mountains and mountains to valleys and so realizing that the good and bad is all par for the course one can just sit back a bit and enjoy the ride. While younger, imo, I was trying to establish all that, build my vehicle of transport so to speak and as time passed... after being in the driver's wheel for many years there's a bit of autopilot that takes place and comfort that comes with it.

With that said, what Nick said to me was very well-balanced and he was able to look at each person as a whole person, using his keen observational and analytical skills to draw upon to provide a bigger narrative for what is just one-dimensional casting for a tv show. That he doesn't take life and himself too seriously and definitely doesn't take the show too seriously only attests to the comfort of where he is in his skin. Some may call this cockiness but I didn't see him as cocky at all, just very self-assured. But maybe I have thick skin or just understand him. I have known many a cocky person in my personal and professional life (MDs are notoriously cocky, esp. neurosurgeons). Then again, it just may be my age impacting me when I look back at my 20-plus self I just chuckle because time really does make one comfortable in one's own skin, imo.

CP... I write directly to you here, trying to respect the rules (if not, mods, please delete) ... with the premise, that I hope this isn't read as a pointed finger at you.
... I support your decision to take a step back ... and if that means that you don't like Nick anymore and that you don't feel comfortable being part of "Nick's chicks" or defined as Nick's fan ... that's completely fine. (There's a reason why I don't have him in my avatar anymore, BTW, but I still like him) ... Stay positive!    

____

Some might not agree with his decision to speak out, but he reached a platform where he can express his thoughts publicly (and he is not shying away from wanting just that) ... so most likely he will continue to use it ...

so those who don't like him speaking about people he shared 5 minutes with, because they would prefer for Nick to go back to his anonymous life, they don't need to like him or need to support his statements.

Some might not agree with what he says because they:
A) don't think it's right
B) don't think it's true

Those who believe in a B, will try to argue/reason where and how is Nick wrong.

Those who believe in an A, will try to argue/reason why they believe Nick's public assertion isn't correct, fair, responsible, sensitive, respectful or classy enough or at all.

And the forum is only at our disposal for that ... but then there's our life and our precious time to consider.

Ben H is the next bachelor according to Us Weekly today (pic posted in Bachelor) thread.
No surprises there and really no surprises that Nick was probably fully aware of this and doing his bit to get the hype going.
His podcast alone lets me know he knows how this show works and surely he already knew from Elan what was going on and just going with all of it to help stir the pot (which definitely worked).
I would love to hear more podcasts from him, I think his take on things is probably the best out there when it comes to alums.  

“Well-behaved women seldom make history.”
― Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I don't know if there's another quote better to sum it up ... regarding "bad boy" and Nick not opposing the title, because it sounds flattering ...

I also don't oppose people for calling Nick out for wanting attention ... although I do argue, that calling him out among 25, 30 and more people that ever graced the "reality" TV show of TB is ... funny.

Maybe JJ (or whoever gave him that idea) is right and Nick wants to stand out because of his numerous siblings ... but I believe it's just deeply rooted in him ... that he wants to make a difference ... make a wave ...

so he finally caught his momentum ... and he is riding it.

I will follow, since it's fascinating to see people make changes... let's just hope for something better.

It's already going for the better, he is not the next bachelor (according to Us Weekly today) and this bodes well for whatever he is pursuing. Like he said, he is not after the title or position, he is after living a real life and making waves, not ripples.

He's certainly accomplished both, imo.