Re: Finale and After the Final Rose Spoilers - Bachelorette 7 - Thread #1

[sdpb]

Congrats to the happy couple - what a pleasure to see a love story finally!

[Shadow]

I'd say it's equal to Reid getting down on one knee to Jillian, as he was led to believe by TPTB that once he said ILY, she would accept. And Jason got down on one knee too. So, I kindly ask that y'all don't make Ashley some type of evil villain..it's just the nature of the beast for this show. Poor Ashley it almost ruined her magical day with JP, as it really upset her that Ben proposed. Let's give everyone a break, please. and maybe they are the real evil ones and not Ashely.

Gina, I agree with this, and add that Ben was very confidant in his feelings and his relationship with Ashley, it was easy to lead him. Ben, himself said you can't worry about the others it will just drive you crazy. I agree with this to a point, you should always feel good about yourself, and confidant in yourself, but you need to be aware of the others who are trying to reach the same goal you are.

I am sure Ben is fine and good things will come his way. I wonder if he told his sister what happen on FRC day. I hope she does not learn by seeing the episode, they are so close it will break her heart.

Very happy for JP and Ash, they are my second favorite couple behind Ali and Roberto....Love them both

[Cecilia]

I'm about to make an incredibly cynical comment... I wondered last night if there was some sort of bonus structure for the lead. It really felt like Ashley was trying to get BOTH Ben and JP to tell her that that they loved her. Is it possible that she would get more if they both proposed?

I KNOW that TPTB push the leads strongly to lead people on and I don't know if it would make me feel any better if there was actually a monetary piece of persuasion. I just didn't think that Ash would freeze to the point that she would actively (actually passively, I guess) hurt another person. It makes me sad, but then it always does.

I know I feel disappointed too though i don't judge her or accuse her for it... it's too monumental for her to just go in and want to wing it. Ash is a dancer ...she knows about rehearsals...she's a dentist...she knows about memorizing crazy amounts of biological information --- I would have expected she is composed, intelligent and - I truly felt - compassionate enough to have rehearsed what she would do in this scenario especially given how monumental it is -- especially for Ben! Ash blundered only once with rejections in my eyes and that was with how cold she was with Ames but she did well with the others so this is surprising and sad

I truly respected Ali for how she acted with CL and was very proud of her. And most of all I held Ashley in the same standards and I'm am sad that it's disappointing like this.... Either way tho...time will HEAL and Ben will be OK. It's just -- it was totally avoidable!

AMEN emusha! I respect Ali as well. I just want to "toot" her horn for a second for not allowing Chris L to get all dressed up, picking out a ring, etc. There was no wasted proposal. What do we have here? He proposed beautifully to Peyton. Chris L, Roberto, Ali & Peyton will always be friends. Ash/JP & Ben will be friends again one day. I just know it! :Nod:

I don't know about that. JP and Ben were almost never shown to be friendly.... editing??

I agree. I have a feeling that JP wasn't that great of friends with a lot of the guys that stuck around longer because he was so into Ashley that it made it difficult for him to be super friendly with them/or focus on those friendships. Plus he was somewhat significantly older than the rest of the guys.

[ironcat]

I'm about to make an incredibly cynical comment... I wondered last night if there was some sort of bonus structure for the lead. It really felt like Ashley was trying to get BOTH Ben and JP to tell her that that they loved her. Is it possible that she would get more if they both proposed?

I KNOW that TPTB push the leads strongly to lead people on and I don't know if it would make me feel any better if there was actually a monetary piece of persuasion. I just didn't think that Ash would freeze to the point that she would actively (actually passively, I guess) hurt another person. It makes me sad, but then it always does.

I know I feel disappointed too though i don't judge her or accuse her for it... it's too monumental for her to just go in and want to wing it. Ash is a dancer ...she knows about rehearsals...she's a dentist...she knows about memorizing crazy amounts of biological information --- I would have expected she is composed, intelligent and - I truly felt - compassionate enough to have rehearsed what she would do in this scenario especially given how monumental it is -- especially for Ben! Ash blundered only once with rejections in my eyes and that was with how cold she was with Ames but she did well with the others so this is surprising and sad

I truly respected Ali for how she acted with CL and was very proud of her. And most of all I held Ashley in the same standards and I'm am sad that it's disappointing like this.... Either way tho...time will HEAL and Ben will be OK. It's just -- it was totally avoidable!

AMEN emusha! I respect Ali as well. I just want to "toot" her horn for a second for not allowing Chris L to get all dressed up, picking out a ring, etc. There was no wasted proposal. What do we have here? He proposed beautifully to Peyton. Chris L, Roberto, Ali & Peyton will always be friends. Ash/JP & Ben will be friends again one day. I just know it! :Nod:

I'm going to be a little cynical here. Ali may have been the 1st to tell TPTB she wanted to end things with her F2 before the FRC and LCD and she got her way. But she got her way because the producers decided it would make a good story that season. So Ali deserves credit but she got lucky the producers agreed.

Does anybody here think Ashley didn't want to do the same thing? I think we've seen she was going through the motions with the other guys and one of the reasons she hasn't been that great a lead is she doesn't hide her feelings well. But I don't think the producers allowed her to end things with Ben F early. I think they forced her to go through with the FRC. They needed Ben F around for the family drama

emusha's right Ashley should've prepared herself for the scenario where Ben F proposed. Maybe she did and she froze. Maybe the producers got into her head and she was sure she and Ben F were on the same page about this not working out. That wouldn't be an excuse but at least it would make things a little more understandable. Or maybe there's more going on here. My cynical side says the producers wanted something really awkward for their own purposes, maybe to really set Ben F up to possibly be the next Bachelor.

[eightfifteen]

[emusha]

[luvstx]

I'll join the crowd!

[Bhaka]

I know I feel disappointed too though i don't judge her or accuse her for it... it's too monumental for her to just go in and want to wing it. Ash is a dancer ...she knows about rehearsals...she's a dentist...she knows about memorizing crazy amounts of biological information --- I would have expected she is composed, intelligent and - I truly felt - compassionate enough to have rehearsed what she would do in this scenario especially given how monumental it is -- especially for Ben! Ash blundered only once with rejections in my eyes and that was with how cold she was with Ames but she did well with the others so this is surprising and sad

I truly respected Ali for how she acted with CL and was very proud of her. And most of all I held Ashley in the same standards and I'm am sad that it's disappointing like this.... Either way tho...time will HEAL and Ben will be OK. It's just -- it was totally avoidable!

I think Ashley would have jumped at the chance to let go of Ben the way Ali let go of Chris. I just can't see TPTB letting that happen a second year in a row.

[sjcaligurl]

I'm about to make an incredibly cynical comment... I wondered last night if there was some sort of bonus structure for the lead. It really felt like Ashley was trying to get BOTH Ben and JP to tell her that that they loved her. Is it possible that she would get more if they both proposed?

I KNOW that TPTB push the leads strongly to lead people on and I don't know if it would make me feel any better if there was actually a monetary piece of persuasion. I just didn't think that Ash would freeze to the point that she would actively (actually passively, I guess) hurt another person. It makes me sad, but then it always does.

I know I feel disappointed too though i don't judge her or accuse her for it... it's too monumental for her to just go in and want to wing it. Ash is a dancer ...she knows about rehearsals...she's a dentist...she knows about memorizing crazy amounts of biological information --- I would have expected she is composed, intelligent and - I truly felt - compassionate enough to have rehearsed what she would do in this scenario especially given how monumental it is -- especially for Ben! Ash blundered only once with rejections in my eyes and that was with how cold she was with Ames but she did well with the others so this is surprising and sad

I truly respected Ali for how she acted with CL and was very proud of her. And most of all I held Ashley in the same standards and I'm am sad that it's disappointing like this.... Either way tho...time will HEAL and Ben will be OK. It's just -- it was totally avoidable!

AMEN emusha! I respect Ali as well. I just want to "toot" her horn for a second for not allowing Chris L to get all dressed up, picking out a ring, etc. There was no wasted proposal. What do we have here? He proposed beautifully to Peyton. Chris L, Roberto, Ali & Peyton will always be friends. Ash/JP & Ben will be friends again one day. I just know it! :Nod:

But, isn't the point of the show to propose if you want the girl? He knew going in that she could say no? Unless the lead tells you "I am picking you," as Alex did in Trista's case and as Brad told DeAnna "It's going to be a good day," why do they get blind sided if they know there is another person there. THAT part is the danger of blocking out the thoughts of the other guy/girl. You get so single minded that you only see one result - which was part of the reason why JP was so nervous the entire time. He had a hard time not thinking about the possibility that she might like someone else better. JP, apparently from HK on, had reason to think he was the one but still would have derailed the whole process if he could have to keep anyone else from gaining an edge. I seem to recall JesseC trying to con producers into letting him propose the night before. It's pretty nerve wracking so I don't see how anyone but someone whose been given a solemn promise can go in sure because the process, as we've seen season after season, is a total mind F! I think JP was flipping out so in Taiwan because he knew producers knew that what those two had was real and they still did things like have that overnight date. It's funny now (well, actually it was funny to me then) but I see why he had a hard time sleeping when he wasn't around her.

[emusha]

I'm about to make an incredibly cynical comment... I wondered last night if there was some sort of bonus structure for the lead. It really felt like Ashley was trying to get BOTH Ben and JP to tell her that that they loved her. Is it possible that she would get more if they both proposed?

I KNOW that TPTB push the leads strongly to lead people on and I don't know if it would make me feel any better if there was actually a monetary piece of persuasion. I just didn't think that Ash would freeze to the point that she would actively (actually passively, I guess) hurt another person. It makes me sad, but then it always does.

I know I feel disappointed too though i don't judge her or accuse her for it... it's too monumental for her to just go in and want to wing it. Ash is a dancer ...she knows about rehearsals...she's a dentist...she knows about memorizing crazy amounts of biological information --- I would have expected she is composed, intelligent and - I truly felt - compassionate enough to have rehearsed what she would do in this scenario especially given how monumental it is -- especially for Ben! Ash blundered only once with rejections in my eyes and that was with how cold she was with Ames but she did well with the others so this is surprising and sad

I truly respected Ali for how she acted with CL and was very proud of her. And most of all I held Ashley in the same standards and I'm am sad that it's disappointing like this.... Either way tho...time will HEAL and Ben will be OK. It's just -- it was totally avoidable!

AMEN emusha! I respect Ali as well. I just want to "toot" her horn for a second for not allowing Chris L to get all dressed up, picking out a ring, etc. There was no wasted proposal. What do we have here? He proposed beautifully to Peyton. Chris L, Roberto, Ali & Peyton will always be friends. Ash/JP & Ben will be friends again one day. I just know it! :Nod:

I'm going to be a little cynical here. Ali may have been the 1st to tell TPTB she wanted to end things with her F2 before the FRC and LCD and she got her way. But she got her way because the producers decided it would make a good story that season. So Ali deserves credit but she got lucky the producers agreed.

Does anybody here think Ashley didn't want to do the same thing? I think we've seen she was going through the motions with the other guys and one of the reasons she hasn't been that great a lead is she doesn't hide her feelings well. But I don't think the producers allowed her to end things with Ben F early. I think they forced her to go through with the FRC. They needed Ben F around for the family drama

emusha's right Ashley should've prepared herself for the scenario where Ben F proposed. Maybe she did and she froze. Maybe the producers got into her head and she was sure she and Ben F were on the same page about this not working out. That wouldn't be an excuse but at least it would make things a little more understandable. Or maybe there's more going on here. My cynical side says the producers wanted something really awkward for their own purposes, maybe to really set Ben F up to possibly be the next Bachelor.

Oh, I posted yesterday I think that the producers were never going to allow Ashley to pull an Ali; that was a one time deal, and also Ali was MF's favorite. Ashley might not have been expecting a proposal from Ben so quickly, she may have been told that she was to speak first and her hesitation to say the "right words" quickly prompted Ben to "jump the gun" (he also may have been instructed to speak first, in contradiction to what Ash was told). No doubt, getting the proposal, the turndown, and the angry response to it was exactly what the producers were hoping for (a WOW! from MF), so I have a hard time believing that it all happened organically.

I think these are fair assumptions to make given the nature of the show but then...can we look back @ when MF went to Fiji and then he tweeted OMG -- is this really in relation to Ryan like had been sleuthed out given the tweet's timing or was it during FRC time?

I could easily buy that the producers devised some contrived plan to manipulate both Ash and Ben into getting that jawdrop moment but then again -- from the info in this thread it seemed Ash was totally frozen and she was just dumbfound standing there -- i guess we'll have to pick this back up once we actually all see how it went down exactly and then reassess. My hope was she would at lest rehearse and stop it... (I'm by no means bashing Ash here - I am just being honest - I really like Ashley)

In all fairness I agree with you cfck that Ali knew wayyyyy ahead of time that she was done figuring it all out whereas I think Ash had a stronger emotional and physical bond with Ben than Ali did with CL and might have been more open to taking those extra dates with Ben vs. ending it at the LCD.
btw to whomever said there was need to keep ben around cos of the family drama coming up: the MTP happens before LCD so there is still time @ LCD to say goodbye (but I'm not even saying Ashley shoulda done that! I just don't think Ben shoulda proposed she coulda said goodbye at the FRC)... I don't think that was expected to be a regular thing as Ali got a break...though hasn't the show been all about breaking the rules lately?

[bluwavz]

I'm about to make an incredibly cynical comment... I wondered last night if there was some sort of bonus structure for the lead. It really felt like Ashley was trying to get BOTH Ben and JP to tell her that that they loved her. Is it possible that she would get more if they both proposed?

I KNOW that TPTB push the leads strongly to lead people on and I don't know if it would make me feel any better if there was actually a monetary piece of persuasion. I just didn't think that Ash would freeze to the point that she would actively (actually passively, I guess) hurt another person. It makes me sad, but then it always does.

I know I feel disappointed too though i don't judge her or accuse her for it... it's too monumental for her to just go in and want to wing it. Ash is a dancer ...she knows about rehearsals...she's a dentist...she knows about memorizing crazy amounts of biological information --- I would have expected she is composed, intelligent and - I truly felt - compassionate enough to have rehearsed what she would do in this scenario especially given how monumental it is -- especially for Ben! Ash blundered only once with rejections in my eyes and that was with how cold she was with Ames but she did well with the others so this is surprising and sad

I truly respected Ali for how she acted with CL and was very proud of her. And most of all I held Ashley in the same standards and I'm am sad that it's disappointing like this.... Either way tho...time will HEAL and Ben will be OK. It's just -- it was totally avoidable!

AMEN emusha! I respect Ali as well. I just want to "toot" her horn for a second for not allowing Chris L to get all dressed up, picking out a ring, etc. There was no wasted proposal. What do we have here? He proposed beautifully to Peyton. Chris L, Roberto, Ali & Peyton will always be friends. Ash/JP & Ben will be friends again one day. I just know it! :Nod:

I'm going to be a little cynical here. Ali may have been the 1st to tell TPTB she wanted to end things with her F2 before the FRC and LCD and she got her way. But she got her way because the producers decided it would make a good story that season. So Ali deserves credit but she got lucky the producers agreed.

Does anybody here think Ashley didn't want to do the same thing? I think we've seen she was going through the motions with the other guys and one of the reasons she hasn't been that great a lead is she doesn't hide her feelings well. But I don't think the producers allowed her to end things with Ben F early. I think they forced her to go through with the FRC. They needed Ben F around for the family drama

emusha's right Ashley should've prepared herself for the scenario where Ben F proposed. Maybe she did and she froze. Maybe the producers got into her head and she was sure she and Ben F were on the same page about this not working out. That wouldn't be an excuse but at least it would make things a little more understandable. Or maybe there's more going on here. My cynical side says the producers wanted something really awkward for their own purposes, maybe to really set Ben F up to possibly be the next Bachelor.

Oh, I posted yesterday I think that the producers were never going to allow Ashley to pull an Ali; that was a one time deal, and also Ali was MF's favorite. Ashley might not have been expecting a proposal from Ben so quickly, she may have been told that she was to speak first and her hesitation to say the "right words" quickly prompted Ben to "jump the gun" (he also may have been instructed to speak first, in contradiction to what Ash was told). No doubt, getting the proposal, the turndown, and the angry response to it was exactly what the producers were hoping for (a WOW! from MF), so I have a hard time believing that it all happened organically.

This was one cruel season by TPTB. The Bentley storyline, the roast, three guys leaving, Ryan's return and now a F2 proposal. I hope it's more lighthearted next season. This season has been uncomfortable to watch much of the time.

[Shelby]

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