The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - Body Language - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

reason wrote:Can it be written for those of us who can't hear it please? or simple summarize.  Thanks

I am still listening to it but the opening line is very damaging...producers only interested in casting based on personality not if contestants were interested in finding love. Josh very upfront he didn't do this for love but for exposure.

Josh wasn't interested in Kaitlyn and was more into Britt, didn't think Kaitlyn was ladylike

Kaitlyn grinded into him doing his strip show and took tie off him and grinded with him as well but it was all edited out.

Lines were also fed to them to repeat, the testimonials were fed, little quips were fed but more real when it wasn't testimonials. Example, the line "not getting a rose would be a blow to my ego was a fed line". The producers controlled who spoke to who.

Britt was more serious and had more deep convo with her compared to Kaitlyn. None of this was shown though.

Filming was from 7pm to 7am. Some other guys were also drunk, Shawn E from Canada was one of them and he actually passed out at some point. The producers have already threathened him with a law suit because he is spoken to TMZ and other media outlets. Josh is still friends with a couple via SM but can't say who due to law suit threats.

The producers gave him a soft offer for BIP right after the show but he did say ok to it. Four or Six tabloids said he was in strong consideration and he has since told family and friends he is not going to do it again due to eliminations. They get reimbursed for BIP but you have to pay upfront first.

Josh is really going though the contract, that not talking to anyone is bogus because against US first amendment right, rattles off about other aspects of the.

Josh only went to the media because of Chris Harrison thrashing him on the media rounds that . Josh believes the show Producers were the ones that told Josh to strip coming out of the limo and he had to stand up for himself because CH was lying calling Josh a creep when all along it was the producers's idea. Actually producers wanted him to take his pants and shirts off for the stripping as well and he said no that he would only unbutton his shirt.

Long and short is that the producer woman manipulated him and even guaranteed him not being eliminated 10 mins before rose ceremony. The producer was the same woman that filmed his intro package, flew to Chicago to hang with him and introduced her to his friends, the producer promised his friends and sister in law tickets to AFTR.

Josh believes Kaitlyn is a pawn in the hands of the producers and they manipulate who she eliminates. After Josh was eliminated, he didn't hear from producer again until 5 days ago when she called to apologize for CH thrashing him on the media circuit.

On set CH was a primadonna, was very smog and and he din entertain folks walking up to him and having a convo, even was smog to the producers.

Josh is not going back to law for now, thanks to CH talking about him, he has a lot of exposure now and will be back to stripping and doing another reality show on E channel. Josh will look into taking his bar exam at another time but his goal is to be the host of a show some day.

And that's all i got from the interview.

Lucas15 wrote:

emusha wrote:Lucas did you notice that K was very aware about her lipstick and pouting throughout I think to keep it intact -- goes along with the gesture GA mentioned which was wiping the lipstick off the top of her lip which happens immediately after
also if you go to 2:15 she does the same expression again after saying a majority of the guys were not impressed then again around 3:09 
i think due to the lipstick this was her resting face during the interview...andi's "resting b*tch face" makes a comeback

I did look at both the 2:15 and 3:09 moments but I'm seeing a quite different expression there - here's a side-by-side comparison of 1:47 and 2:15 (and keep in mind - the screen cap is NOT the best image to have captured but I couldn't make the video stop and the exactly correct frame - the next frame would have been better but I couldn't cap it):



There are two differences I see between these two expressions and a third significant point to be made, IMO:

1 - In the 1:47 moment Kaitlin's lower jaw is protruding slightly more than it is in the 2:15 moment.
2 - In the 1:47 moment there's a slight downward turn to her lips and a slight dimple in her lower jaw from the muscle that pulled her lip down. That muscle is involuntary - she can't control it (none of us can) - it's an involuntary muscle reaction to what she's experiencing emotionally.
3 - At 1:47 it is a classic micro expression in that it's a very noticeable change in her facial expression that lasts for much less than a second - perhaps only two frames of the video - it comes and then it's gone. At 2:15 (and also 3:09) her expression is quite consistent through several seconds. Micro expressions are very very brief but interesting because they are completely involuntary - you don't know you're doing one and you can't stop from doing it and you can't fake one - or at least very few people can.

The thing to keep in mind with body language and especially micro expressions, IMO, is that we are not really interested in things that people do intentionally with conscious control over their facial muscles. What we are interested in is what people do subconsciously using involuntary muscles.

hmm...they don't look very different to me not as stills but watching it back ....
I actually think she does this only during this interview. if you study her expressions in her other interviews, this pursed lip situation doesn't happen again at all...  I also watched the scene you mentioned closely and it was a few nanoseconds after she referred to how he had a rough go last season I don't know if it looks like it's correlated with anything significant in terms of timing

could the interview convo be more fitting for the media thread?

Josh S. is a terrible lawyer.  The government can't prevent you from speaking, but a private party can.  The First Amendment is only for government actions and not those by private parties.  That's why contracts can (and do) often have confidentiality provisions -- and not just for reality TV shows.

#Lawyered.

kimberlyg wrote:Josh S. is a terrible lawyer.  The government can't prevent you from speaking, but a private party can.  The First Amendment is only for government actions and not those by private parties.  That's why contracts can (and do) often have confidentiality provisions -- and not just for reality TV shows.

#Lawyered.

I didn't even listen to it but my favorite part is what's recapped upahead- Kait wasn't enough of a lady for this toolchest. Okay.

Alanna wrote:

kimberlyg wrote:Josh S. is a terrible lawyer.  The government can't prevent you from speaking, but a private party can.  The First Amendment is only for government actions and not those by private parties.  That's why contracts can (and do) often have confidentiality provisions -- and not just for reality TV shows.

#Lawyered.

I didn't even listen to it but my favorite part is what's recapped upahead- Kait wasn't enough of a lady for this toolchest. Okay.

You would think he'd be less judgmental of someone like Kaitlyn with what he does for a living. Guess not.

Alanna wrote:

kimberlyg wrote:Josh S. is a terrible lawyer.  The government can't prevent you from speaking, but a private party can.  The First Amendment is only for government actions and not those by private parties.  That's why contracts can (and do) often have confidentiality provisions -- and not just for reality TV shows.

#Lawyered.

I didn't even listen to it but my favorite part is what's recapped upahead- Kait wasn't enough of a lady for this toolchest. Okay.

Or that Kaitlyn wasn't "classy" enough for Stripper Boy.   .

Alanna wrote:So Lucas, for the slow kiddos in the back (ie yours truly), what do you think it can mean?

Well let's imagine for a bit that the micro expression was one of happiness. I would interpret that as indicating that Kaitlin was very happy that Nick had come on the show because that's what she was talking about when she did the expression, and that could indicate that she had picked him and was with him.

If we imagine that the micro expression was one of surprise, it could indicate that she didn't know Nick was going to come on the show and was "reliving" the emotion of surprise she felt when she found out that he had.

But the micro expression was neither of those two emotions. I feel three of the seven possible emotions are most possible - anger, contempt and disgust, and anger would be at the bottom of my list because it doesn't fit the pattern of anger very well. So IMO she was feeling one of those 3 possible emotions, and when she was saying the things about Nick that's what she felt. Why she felt that I can't say however.

emusha wrote:I also watched the scene you mentioned closely and it was a few nanoseconds after she referred to how he had a rough go last season I don't know if it looks like it's correlated with anything significant in terms of timing

The fact that this expression only lasted a few nanoseconds (actually it was probably 1/15 second as I think it was about two frames of video) is what makes it interesting. It represents something that Kaitlin felt emotionally at the time she made a certain statement. It might or might not relate to what she said at that instant but does relate to the general discussion of Nick.

Here's one of the most cited examples of micro expressions; when Arnold Schwarzenegger was running for governor of CA he was accused of certain sexual indiscretions. He gave a campaign speech in which he was most apologetic and contrite, but in the middle of the speech the cameras caught a micro expression of anger. So he really wasn't contrite at all - he was angry that he had to go on stage and make the speech. Most voters missed the micro expression, believed his apology and contrite attitude and elected him. This was years before we learned he had an illegitimate child with a housekeeper.

Ok I finally caught it!!!! and screen capped it again exactly the moment I caught and it was right after Kaitlyn said "I truly believe he showed up...here we go...for the 'right reasons'..."  

then she continues to say "because he had a rough go last season...and he would not put himself through that again unless he feels that strongly about me."
so I did a lot of other screen caps 
and I saw her making this exact same face of her lips coming together and pursed upwards when she pauses as she's explaining things...she also did it at the very end of explaining etc. I actually ended up doing screencaps for the very beginning of the questioning rounds about nick and her eyes seem to light up and she gets a bit of a shy smile on her face before looking down etc. her voice also lowers and gets a bit heavy/sounds vulnerable

at the end of explaining - not exact but similar thing of pursing lips upwards that she keeps doing

here's another in the middle of explaining when she pauses


when the lady brings up nick...


"yea.."


also she says "once i was gone..." and a tiny hidden smile sneaks in

I guess... he was missing that friendship

I got the impression that every time she pursed her lips, it was in anticipation to a question- like she was thinking strategically about how to respond, or she found the question to be irritating (like she was thinking "why do we have to go through this again"). She actually seemed to relax a little when Nick's name was brought up, even for a moment.

Lucas15 wrote:

Alanna wrote:So Lucas, for the slow kiddos in the back (ie yours truly), what do you think it can mean?

Well let's imagine for a bit that the micro expression was one of happiness. I would interpret that as indicating that Kaitlin was very happy that Nick had come on the show because that's what she was talking about when she did the expression, and that could indicate that she had picked him and was with him.

If we imagine that the micro expression was one of surprise, it could indicate that she didn't know Nick was going to come on the show and was "reliving" the emotion of surprise she felt when she found out that he had.

But the micro expression was neither of those two emotions. I feel three of the seven possible emotions are most possible - anger, contempt and disgust, and anger would be at the bottom of my list because it doesn't fit the pattern of anger very well. So IMO she was feeling one of those 3 possible emotions, and when she was saying the things about Nick that's what she felt. Why she felt that I can't say however.

emusha wrote:I also watched the scene you mentioned closely and it was a few nanoseconds after she referred to how he had a rough go last season I don't know if it looks like it's correlated with anything significant in terms of timing

The fact that this expression only lasted a few nanoseconds (actually it was probably 1/15 second as I think it was about two frames of video) is what makes it interesting. It represents something that Kaitlin felt emotionally at the time she made a certain statement. It might or might not relate to what she said at that instant but does relate to the general discussion of Nick.

Here's one of the most cited examples of micro expressions; when Arnold Schwarzenegger was running for governor of CA he was accused of certain sexual indiscretions. He gave a campaign speech in which he was most apologetic and contrite, but in the middle of the speech the cameras caught a micro expression of anger. So he really wasn't contrite at all - he was angry that he had to go on stage and make the speech. Most voters missed the micro expression, believed his apology and contrite attitude and elected him. This was years before we learned he had an illegitimate child with a housekeeper.

Thanks! I don't know what to make of this. I feel like if there's a f1, it has to be Nick, provided he's the pre-fs visitor, it's going to be one hot mess if she chose Shawn after that. However, it does explain why there isn't a f1, if she's just totally done with both and over it by the time they got to the frc.

Interviewer said "You told your family because you are engaged and they need to know"


K says "That was GOOD...."


ok she's wayyy too secrete smiley/cat's got your tongue expression for me in these moments given the spoilers...hmmm would have expected some mixed emotions on her face...   

and then lastly ...on nick ...the hosts say "and now he's in the mix..." completing her story for her and K goes... 

I wanna compare her facial expressions when she talks about shawn