Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Art Green - *Sleuthing* - *Spoilers*

by Guest Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:44 am

Kapiti wrote:I'm really enjoying all the discussion and especially seeing things from many different perspectives!
Good posting everyone!!
Bach Nz has just launched a competition for $5000. Interesting part is in the t&c. The competition has only just been announced (13 April) but the competition says it runs from the 16th of March till the 14th of May. First episode aired on Tuesday the 17th of March so perhaps the final episode airs on Wednesday the 13th of May? What do you ladies think?
ETA This would mean episodes would need to be cut down to 1/week after this week.

and that would be the "shock announcement"?
Arthur decided to get rid of 3 girls instead of 2?
He said himself that the hardest thing for him is to see the girls leaving and crying at the departure... so maybe he thought to double up taking a bigger sour pill instead of 2 small one?

by AllAboutLove Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:58 am

HEA wrote:
Kapiti wrote:I'm really enjoying all the discussion and especially seeing things from many different perspectives!
Good posting everyone!!
Bach Nz has just launched a competition for $5000. Interesting part is in the t&c. The competition has only just been announced (13 April) but the competition says it runs from the 16th of March till the 14th of May. First episode aired on Tuesday the 17th of March so perhaps the final episode airs on Wednesday the 13th of May? What do you ladies think?
ETA This would mean episodes would need to be cut down to 1/week after this week.

and that would be the "shock announcement"?
Arthur decided to get rid of 3 girls instead of 2?
He said himself that the hardest thing for him is to see the girls leaving and crying at the departure... so maybe he thought to double up taking a bigger sour pill instead of 2 small one?

Shock announcement:
It was speculated in the Episodes thread that 3 girls may go home Ep 10 (or even more, especially if he doesn't send anyone home Ep 9). They already have had 2 girls go home at one RC before so a shock would mean (imo) more than just 2.

As for the timeline:
No idea what is going on... The competition would probably end after the show ends... How much longer? I would think a week or so afterwards. I guess we could compare to other franchises that did similar competitions (will have to check if Bach Aussie or Bach Canada did)?

IA that if it is May sometime I don't see how they will have 2 episodes per week for the next month (4 weeks) . If they had 2 episodes/week as they are currently doing, this means ~ 7-8 more episodes (which means we are halfway only). That seems like way too much considering we have just watched Episode 8 and there are 8 girls left... So either, imo, they will have to let more girls go soon or they will have to have 1 ep/week.

Ep 10 is the episode that is vague. It sounds like someone may get a 2nd date. The only person left without a single date is Danielle. I don't know if she will get one... I think we will be able to figure out the timeline better once Ep 10 airs.

ETA: If Matilda does break her wrist as we see and wears a cast, she was out of the cast by ~ March 22 according to SM activity and posts of her not wearing a cast. Typically, an adult wears a cast for ~ 6 weeks post trauma. This means that if Matilda wore it for 6 weeks, then she fell off the horse around Feb 8/9. This matches the timeline of when it was sleuthed that she possibly fell off the horse... https://www.bachandbachettefans.net/t2879p240-bachelor-new-zealand-art-green-episode-discussion-sleuthing-spoilers#782522

by AllAboutLove Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:38 pm

HEA wrote:so I went in the SM thread and selected a couple of words that for me are very revealing:

“It’s kind of forced me to make the time to find someone, because that’s what I’ve been lacking is the time.” ► reality check after the show, he will not change his ways

“Now it’s a weird situation I find myself in where I know that in a few weeks I’m going to have a girlfriend.” ► no proposal at all

“It’s quite interesting hearing what the girls say when I’m not around, and to each other, and about each other.” ► Dani talked about this at the jumping place., it is interesting that he is still talking about it weeks after the finale...

“You wouldn’t get that in a normal dating situation.” ► reality is different and nothing is real for him

“The hardest part is seeing them say goodbye to the other girls who they have got strong friendships with.” ► if you care about girls, he would say it was hard for HIM to let them go. So no feelings for the one who left.

----

Dani is more beauty queen than model, but maybe personality will prevail when he takes the finalists home - Art's mum would certainly like her easygoing nature.

Matilda seems a sweetheart, but a bit more seductress wouldn't go astray and Nat, well, she's the nicest girl on the show with legs to heaven.

► interesting perspective to describe them: dani has personality and beauty, matilda no personality and natalie is pretty

There's speculation that in real life, Art is back with his ex. They had been together for several years before breaking up to go on separate OEs and Art had thought she was the one. ► HAHA the dirty laundry speculations!!!! I would not be surprised that the ex feels the need to come back and mark her territory.

So did his newfound fame re-ignite the spark? The Bachelor producer Anna Lynch quashed the speculation ... but we say only time will tell. ► could be only gossips...

----

"He's adventurous, responsible, trustworthy, happy, unquestionably real and [has a] great sense of humour," says (mom)

"It is a crazy mixture of so many elements - meeting potential girlfriends for the first time, getting to know the depth of their true feelings for Arthur, having to ask them 'love' questions," she said.

She had enjoyed watching 23-year-old Pukekohe-based Bachelorette Natalie on the catwalk last week."She was stunning, so graceful." ► no mention of dani or matilda or others. Lets remember that families are debriefed to do not mention top 4...

your thoughts?

Only addressing a few things...

1) the article was basically a clue that Natalie is going home this week, imo. Even the mother talking about her on the catwalk.

2) Interesting that Dani and Matilda are talked about in comparison with each other. Brigette did say the only 2 girls in the house that had feelings for Art were Dani and Matilda. Maybe they are F2.

3) Art has stated in interviews that he is only seeking a girlfriend. Furthermore, not once on the show has he been depicted to be doing anything but finding a girlfriend. The show hasn't even mentioned or put the idea out there that this will end in a proposal because it won't. Art said in an interview video posted in SM thread that no he won't propose. He is looking for a girlfriend and then see if that person is 'the' one after dating them and then in early 30s have kids. I don't see any controversy here at all. What Art has said about his intentions to go on the show and what has been shown on the show match = he is looking for a girlfriend (just like Tim did when he was Bach Aussie S1 with Anna).

by Guest Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:24 pm

i do not see controversy either, it was a recap no idea

I am not so sure about natalie. among all the other girls, his mother remember nathalie?

by stuckinsc Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:48 pm

Katiebelle wrote:Hi all,

I have gone back and read quite a few posts and they have all been very insightful and interesting.

So - last night we had some friends around and the guys, none of whom had actually watched the show but were all very opinionated, and the girls all agreed on one thing. It's this - there is absolutely no way a Kiwi bloke, at the age of 26, will declare his undying love for a girl on TV.

It's going to end up something like this - "let’s continue this journey together and get to know each other better" or “I have strong feelings for you and I can see a future with you. Let's see where this progresses." Although super friendly, as a rule New Zealanders are quite reserved when it comes to love. For most it is quite a private thing. You will never see big bill board declaring “I love you” or flash mob proposals. I think Art is looking for a girlfriend or “partner in crime” not a wife. He even said that he doesn't want children until he's about 31 (which generally is the norm in NZ. Most middle class Kiwis go to University, set up their careers, travel and work overseas and them come back to NZ to settle down in their early 30s. Brides and bridegrooms in their 30s is the norm) So, if you are hoping for the big romantic declaration at the final rose ceremony I think you will be disappointed.

As for the question of Dani. I adore her! I think she comes across as gorgeous inside and out. As for her being the final girl – I’m not sure. I think she would definitely be in the top 3 though, as she has the same easy going friendly, funny vibe that Matilda has and which Art is looking for. I had a look back at her date with Art and the connection between the two was definitely there. (remember I’m only looking at body language as I have no experience of watching previous shows and knowing how they edit the segments). I think that at the time he was really into her. Then at the cat walk (he could easily have picked another girl to win but he choose her) – still into her but not as much.

At the tramp dodge ball date he picked her again (he could have easily have chosen either Natalie or Chrystal). But in the sponge pit is where things unravel a bit. Being in a sponge pit is the perfect excuse to roll together. It’s like a saggy bed and when one person is heavier the other person rolls towards them. He had the perfect excuse to be legitimately closer to her. However, he spreads his arms wide with his elbow pointing slightly towards her which is a more of a “sit back” pose. As for the kiss at the end, she initiates it and she is the one leaning over him.

But the most telling thing for me is this – he doesn’t help her get up or out of the pit. He kind of leaves her to herself. If a guy is really crushing on a girl he is always looking for a good excuse to touch her without putting himself “out there”. I know when my husband was courting me (God I sound so old fashioned! ) he would his hand on my back going upstairs or hold out his hand to pull me up. These are just gentlemanly things to do and a very good excuse to touch someone without being too obvious that you kind of fancy them.

Maybe he had a bit of a “whoa” moment when he realised things were going a little too quickly with her. He might be “cooling his jets” a little for a few weeks.

The other thing I have noticed is that when things start to get a little more serious and intense with one of the girls at the following rose ceremony he makes that girl one of the last to receive a rose. It’s happened to Poppy, Matilda and Dani. It’s almost his subtle way of saying “hey – nothing has been decided, there are other girls here so don’t get your hopes up that you are number 1”. He might be completely unaware that he is doing it.

I also asked my daughter who she thought would win and straight away she said Matilda. I asked her why and the answer she gave was not want I expected. She thinks Matilda is the one because Art teases her and to quote my daughter “boys always teases girls they like.” Art put her on the spot and made her dive (even though she said she couldn’t and the first was a good belly flop! Which he laughed at) and then wouldn’t hand over the rose when she went to take it after performing her Haiku.

So my pick, at this stage (I reserve the right to change my might as the season progresses) for final 3 are Matilda, Dani and Alysha. I think Alysha is too serious and not easy going enough for Art. Plus her constant rolling of her Rs is driving me nuts! (It’s a very southern thing to do and very endearing for the first 15 minutes before it becomes annoying!)

Katiebelle, I really enjoy reading your posts. One of my friends here at my graduate school is a transplanted Kiwi. He came to the U.S. to play soccer at university and has stayed for his graduate education. Like Poppy he was born in the U.K. but raised from 6 months to 18 in NZ. He is an adorable guy and now is almost engaged to a Brazilian girl from his lab. His body type is a lot like Art's as well. I have to say that I find you kiwis very attractive and I just love, love, love the accent. deadhorse

As a dreaded "American", a phrase I find insulting since everyone from North or South America is an American. Anyway, I actually appreciate that Art is looking for a girlfriend or partner in crime. I personally hate that the U.S. version of this show has an engagement as an agreement to date. To me it is stupid to get engaged to a person that you barely know especially when most of all claim to be in love with multiple people less than one week before the engagement. The engagement was not always a requirement like it seems to be now. My favorite US bachelor, Charlie, dated both his final 2 after the show and before the finale aired and he did not get engaged. He and his F1 were together for a while, but his drinking eventually ended their relationship.

I really enjoy Art, I find him genuine and honestly a nice piece of eye candy as well. The girls are also enjoyable and I liked him keeping some women who were older than him, though at this point I do think it is obvious he connects more with the younger women. I really like that he isn't kissing all the girls. The last U.S. Bachelor kissed so many girls, I felt like I needed mouthwash just watching him. I am interested to read more of you and your friends and relatives opinions on the show. I do think Art could have fun dating Dani, Matilda, or Poppy. I think both Kristie and Alysha are both to bossy/know it all for Art's taste in the long run. The man obviously likes blue eyes and I think Alysha's looks captivate him, but I think as he gets to know her he might find her to be a lot more like Kristie than he realized. What do you think?

by Kapiti Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:52 pm

stuckinsc wrote: snipped

I really enjoy Art, I find him genuine and honestly a nice piece of eye candy as well. The girls are also enjoyable and I liked him keeping some women who were older than him, though at this point I do think it is obvious he connects more with the younger women. I really like that he isn't kissing all the girls. The last U.S. Bachelor kissed so many girls, I felt like I needed mouthwash just watching him. I am interested to read more of you and your friends and relatives opinions on the show. I do think Art could have fun dating Dani, Matilda, or Poppy. I think both Kristie and Alysha are both to bossy/know it all for Art's taste in the long run. The man obviously likes blue eyes and I think Alysha's looks captivate him, but I think as he gets to know her he might find her to be a lot more like Kristie than he realized. What do you think?

Stuckinsc! I really agree with your points above, nicely put.

by AllAboutLove Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:56 am

I also want to pay attention to the order of these second 1on1 dates.

They actually may indicate the order of the Final 4 girls with the later 2nd 1on1 dates being an indicator of F2.

Poppy just had her 2nd 1on 1 date in this Ep 10. Then Dani and Alysha seem to have 2nd 1on1 dates in Ep 11 (will have to see who gets which one before the other in the same Ep) and then Matilda if she gets her 2nd 1on1 date Ep 12. Will be interesting to see if this has anything to do with the ending and order of the girls as F4 and who leaves.

I am still interested in the fact that Poppy got an intro video. But that may have to do with her being a memorable person (fart date?). I would like it if there are only 3 girls for HTD. Will have to see...

So far, out of F4 predictions we have Matilda, Dani, Poppy, and Alysha. This means that maybe Natalie goes home Ep 11 (and she is the last brunette so that makes sense). Then Chrystal (unless they drag her to F4 for ratings) and perhaps someone else in Ep 12 which says there is a double date. That would leave 3 girls if 3 go home by Ep 12.

So far it seems they are sticking with the numbers so 4 HTDs may be in the works but there is doubt in my mind.. just a sliver.

by Guest Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:09 am

of course I have a different opinion here.

for me, it is Dani all along.
She is wearing blue top at the beginning of the date starting with a picnic, then cuddles in front of hte hot waters (I can see pink reflection and will share a picture of it), then they go swimming and they kiss, and they end the day with a viewing and the rose with new clothes.

new clothes are not uncommon on the same date. I had a little doubt it might be alysha at the end but this is the same scenery so it has to be the same girl. So I may give my joker card here and open the possibility that it is another date in ep11 with alysha

now question: who at this point is he the most comfortable with, who did he kissed, who did he reach 2 times so far, who is he kissing at rose ceremony even if he knows that they can be interrupted at any moment unless he had a fantastic 1on1 date with dani and now their relationship is taking another step?

I do not trust the roses delivery and dani being almost the last. This is so producer staged so they can disguise who he really like.

He is not that close with alysha and even with poppy he is still very shy somehow. I do not believe for one minute that he became very closed with alysha all of a sudden during a date. We established that he is not a kisser and so far who did he kiss, really kissed? Who is he making bald move to put the girl next to him in his arms?

dani.

I mean still no kiss with matida??? really??? unless he is planing a platonic relationship, the guy can be all cutie and sweet with a girl, it does not show me on my TV that she is F1. I have no doubt he likes her, she makes him laugh but my gosh if we take it as a proof of love all the people who make laugh the other genre, we would have bigamy uh?

may I add that krystal picture with all the girl giving the V sign for victory except dani... that is for me something we should not throw it away? This is the kind of proof I can tangibly see and analyze versus rumors and gossips.

by stuckinsc Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:17 am

HEA and AAL, I love both of your convictions to the girl you love for Art. Both Dani and Matilda are great girls. If this were the US version, I would say that Dani is getting the "physical" edit and Matilda is a bit of the one making him chase her.

But honestly Art is being so realistic and taking his time that I don't think any of the F4 is a concrete definite winner at this point. I think he has had really good moments with all of the F4. I think as less girls are there we will hopefully see more of who Art is really interested in come out.

I can definitely say, I would be shocked if Natalie or Crystal were F1.

by Guest Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:21 am

Kapiti wrote:
stuckinsc wrote: snipped

I really enjoy Art, I find him genuine and honestly a nice piece of eye candy as well. The girls are also enjoyable and I liked him keeping some women who were older than him, though at this point I do think it is obvious he connects more with the younger women. I really like that he isn't kissing all the girls. The last U.S. Bachelor kissed so many girls, I felt like I needed mouthwash just watching him. I am interested to read more of you and your friends and relatives opinions on the show. I do think Art could have fun dating Dani, Matilda, or Poppy. I think both Kristie and Alysha are both to bossy/know it all for Art's taste in the long run. The man obviously likes blue eyes and I think Alysha's looks captivate him, but I think as he gets to know her he might find her to be a lot more like Kristie than he realized. What do you think?

Stuckinsc! I really agree with your points above, nicely put.

well kristie is out so this answer that.

if we think about it. We saw arthur clubbing, we saw arthur with friends. His mom said that his friends are extremely important (on top of his sleep). She says that the journey is for looking for a girlfriend, he confirmed this many times. Arthur is NOT looking for a wife. He is exploring the possibility to have a girlfriend and see if this works outside the show and MAYBE marry in a couple of years.

so if alysha and matilda are wife material and more mature... they do not fit him at all.

and who is fitting this personality? dani, possibility poppy.

by mercieme Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:36 am

No question Art wants a girlfriend and thanks to Katiebelle's insight that no kiwi guy will go on a show like this & get engaged to someone he just met on a dating show.

That said I am going by what Art has said in interviews that "he is a one woman guy" who also just came off of a long term relationship. So to me regardless of whether he likes clubbing or not at the moment IMO he still desires to have a committed relationship. So like stuck said in a post above it could be with any of the F4 we have sleuthed since to me he genuinely likes all of them. I don't recollect any conversation that we were shown where Art & the girls talked about marriage per se, they just talked about building relationships & long term plans.

by AllAboutLove Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:37 am

stuckinsc wrote:HEA and AAL, I love both of your convictions to the girl you love for Art. Both Dani and Matilda are great girls. If this were the US version, I would say that Dani is getting the "physical" edit and Matilda is a bit of the one making him chase her.

But honestly Art is being so realistic and taking his time that I don't think any of the F4 is a concrete definite winner at this point. I think he has had really good moments with all of the F4. I think as less girls are there we will hopefully see more of who Art is really interested in come out.

I can definitely say, I would be shocked if Natalie or Crystal were F1.

hmmmm... Okay, I am going to go there and address some rumors. Whether they are true or not time will tell.

There was some sort of consensus from us when we watched Ep 9 that Art was a bit checked out with all the girls a bit (and honestly, that s/cap we have of him when Matilda was hurt? He was just standing there... Dani ran to Matilda!). Well.... it seems that there is news that during filming... he was contacted by his ex-girlfriend (coinciding with Ep 8 and 9). He treats all the girls courteously and kindly but not in any way is he actually chasing anyone. And we are at Episode 11.

I am just tying this into the red-flags that I personally see with Art post-show behavior, his SM activity and going to clubs and people tweeting that they saw him dirty dancing and that he always does this....

This is not Canada. This is not Australia. This is not USA. New Zealand is a tiny country. Auckland is a tiny city. To just throw away "rumors" because they are so prevalent in these other franchises I think is not the same. I actually am personally going to put more weight to the rumors until proven otherwise. I know one usually says hold off and be optimistic until the show ends but I am not going to do that. I would rather be super cautious and be pleasantly surprised than be hopeful and then it all is awash.

What really gets me is how secretive the show has been with the whole thing. From what I gather from those living in Auckland, people talk and things get out quickly. Everyone knows someone who knows someone. Yes, that means telephone wires, but I am not ruling them out just yet. People that I have no reason to doubt are telling me there ares issues here and that things are not what they seem and that they were happening while filming.

Goodness. This better not turn into another Blake situation but instead of F3, it is ex-gf. I do think it is interesting that Art asks the girls about their past relationships - all of them. Chrystal herself said she was not interested in talking about them because they are in the past. Art said he is still friends with his ex and they only broke up because she worked on a super-yacht? He said his heart was broken? He brings up his past relationship in conversation with the other girls that he is interested in???

The magazine photos of Art are so different from how he comes across on the show. In the magazine he is shirtless and all posing and then on the show all sweet. Oh well... I am just making note of this again. Last time I did someone contacted me on this board to let me know that Art didn't do the show for love but to market himself.

Again, time will tell. For me, even with the cultural aspect, this is Episode 11 and Art doesn't seem to be phased by the filming bachelor bubble. Yes that means he is so normal and real and all that. But it could also mean something else...

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