Bachelor New Zealand - Art Green - *Sleuthing* - *Spoilers*

Katiebelle wrote:Hi,

Not sure I am posting in the right place as this is the first time I have ever done this. It's also the first time I have ever watched the Bachelor so am a complete newbie. I only started watching it because my daughter was desperate to and I wanted to make sure it was appropriate for her.
So looking through a fresh pair of eyes, and being a kiwi and knowing how kiwis think and act ( we are way more reserved than Americans) I though I'd offer some of my observations of the show. Is this what you are after?

(...)

WELCOME Katiebelle
I enjoyed hearing a kiwi's perspective.
I had this feeling that you are all more reserved but IMO it is more in the choice of the participants and the way crew/prod script the show. Canadians and AU are more reserved too and this is probably why I prefer those franchises versus US.
I think we all saw Matilda's connection at the first episode as well as Crystal. And I agree that Matilda has the perfec edit of "good on paper... lets match them together". However, I have a different view from AAL and I think Dani is the frontrunner. Although, I believe also that episode 9 (swimming pool) is a turn for Matilda and Arthur. So I see 2 distinct relationship and I am curious to know how the prods will unfold the "love story" which you are totally right is only smitten and crushes so far.
You will never see more than kisses on this show. Arthur is particularly reserved because most lead do kiss 2 or 3 different at each episode so the only thing you have to worry is to let your daughter see a man kissing multiple women on the excuse to find the love of his life (haha teasing because chances are quasi nil this happens). The show wish a PG audience so they will never show anything innapropriate and even the suite dates (which is the last 2 dates) it will be suggested that the lead will spend physical time quality with the 2 last women within days apart.
I am interested to hear your opinion about Dani since I am a fan of her and believe that Art and her may end together
Feel fee to jump and share any silly or not silly opinion. It is fun to just share our opinion even if it is different from one another.

Hi Katiebell, nice to have you here. I'm Australian and of course there are many subtle differences between us. I can see the connection between Matilda and Art but do not think he is smitten. I see the way he gazes at and chases Dani but again do not think he is smitten.

Katiebelle! Great first post, and yes, that's what we do around here. We post and share our opinions.

Hi all,

I have gone back and read quite a few posts and they have all been very insightful and interesting.

So - last night we had some friends around and the guys, none of whom had actually watched the show but were all very opinionated, and the girls all agreed on one thing. It's this - there is absolutely no way a Kiwi bloke, at the age of 26, will declare his undying love for a girl on TV.

It's going to end up something like this - "let’s continue this journey together and get to know each other better" or “I have strong feelings for you and I can see a future with you. Let's see where this progresses." Although super friendly, as a rule New Zealanders are quite reserved when it comes to love. For most it is quite a private thing. You will never see big bill board declaring “I love you” or flash mob proposals. I think Art is looking for a girlfriend or “partner in crime” not a wife. He even said that he doesn't want children until he's about 31 (which generally is the norm in NZ. Most middle class Kiwis go to University, set up their careers, travel and work overseas and them come back to NZ to settle down in their early 30s. Brides and bridegrooms in their 30s is the norm) So, if you are hoping for the big romantic declaration at the final rose ceremony I think you will be disappointed.

As for the question of Dani. I adore her! I think she comes across as gorgeous inside and out. As for her being the final girl – I’m not sure. I think she would definitely be in the top 3 though, as she has the same easy going friendly, funny vibe that Matilda has and which Art is looking for. I had a look back at her date with Art and the connection between the two was definitely there. (remember I’m only looking at body language as I have no experience of watching previous shows and knowing how they edit the segments). I think that at the time he was really into her. Then at the cat walk (he could easily have picked another girl to win but he choose her) – still into her but not as much.

At the tramp dodge ball date he picked her again (he could have easily have chosen either Natalie or Chrystal). But in the sponge pit is where things unravel a bit. Being in a sponge pit is the perfect excuse to roll together. It’s like a saggy bed and when one person is heavier the other person rolls towards them. He had the perfect excuse to be legitimately closer to her. However, he spreads his arms wide with his elbow pointing slightly towards her which is a more of a “sit back” pose. As for the kiss at the end, she initiates it and she is the one leaning over him.

But the most telling thing for me is this – he doesn’t help her get up or out of the pit. He kind of leaves her to herself. If a guy is really crushing on a girl he is always looking for a good excuse to touch her without putting himself “out there”. I know when my husband was courting me (God I sound so old fashioned! ) he would his hand on my back going upstairs or hold out his hand to pull me up. These are just gentlemanly things to do and a very good excuse to touch someone without being too obvious that you kind of fancy them.

Maybe he had a bit of a “whoa” moment when he realised things were going a little too quickly with her. He might be “cooling his jets” a little for a few weeks.

The other thing I have noticed is that when things start to get a little more serious and intense with one of the girls at the following rose ceremony he makes that girl one of the last to receive a rose. It’s happened to Poppy, Matilda and Dani. It’s almost his subtle way of saying “hey – nothing has been decided, there are other girls here so don’t get your hopes up that you are number 1”. He might be completely unaware that he is doing it.

I also asked my daughter who she thought would win and straight away she said Matilda. I asked her why and the answer she gave was not want I expected. She thinks Matilda is the one because Art teases her and to quote my daughter “boys always teases girls they like.” Art put her on the spot and made her dive (even though she said she couldn’t and the first was a good belly flop! Which he laughed at) and then wouldn’t hand over the rose when she went to take it after performing her Haiku.


So my pick, at this stage (I reserve the right to change my might as the season progresses) for final 3 are Matilda, Dani and Alysha. I think Alysha is too serious and not easy going enough for Art. Plus her constant rolling of her Rs is driving me nuts! (It’s a very southern thing to do and very endearing for the first 15 minutes before it becomes annoying!)

Katiebelle, really love reading your perspective especially on how Kiwis are. This is just perfect for me becasue I am tired of the "bubble" love story from the US and CAN Bach franchise.

I am really enjoying BACH NZ because it's more realistic and I actually think has a better chance at success if they continue on this part of not forcing a love story that is impossible over the course of the weeks that they filmed for.

Most of us are aligned with your F3 prediction we just differ when it comes to who F1 is.

Another thing that we have speculated is if Art is still with his F1. I would love to get your perspective on that. I actually still think Art is still with his F1, no way he is doing an interview segment with his mum if he already broke up with his F1 IMO.

Katiebelle wrote:Hi all,

I have gone back and read quite a few posts and they have all been very insightful and interesting.

So - last night we had some friends around and the guys, none of whom had actually watched the show but were all very opinionated, and the girls all agreed on one thing. It's this - there is absolutely no way a Kiwi bloke, at the age of 26, will declare his undying love for a girl on TV.

It's going to end up something  like this - "let’s continue this journey together and get to know each other better" or “I have strong feelings for you and I can see a future with you. Let's see where this progresses."  Although super friendly, as a rule New Zealanders are quite reserved when it comes to love. For most it is quite a private thing. You will never see big bill board declaring “I love you” or flash mob proposals. I think Art is looking for a girlfriend or “partner in crime” not a wife. He even said that he doesn't want children until he's about 31 (which generally is the norm in NZ. Most middle class Kiwis go to University, set up their careers, travel and work overseas and them come back to NZ to settle down in their early 30s. Brides and bridegrooms in their 30s is the norm) So, if you are hoping for the big romantic declaration at the final rose ceremony I think you will be disappointed.

As for the question of Dani. I adore her! I think she comes across as gorgeous inside and out. As for her being the final girl – I’m not sure. I think she would definitely be in the top 3 though, as she has the same easy going friendly, funny vibe that Matilda has and which Art is looking for. I had a look back at her date with Art and the connection between the two was definitely there. (remember  I’m only looking at body language as I have no experience of watching previous shows and knowing how they edit the segments). I think that at the time he was really into her. Then at the cat walk (he could easily have picked another girl to win but he choose her) – still into her but not as much.

At the tramp dodge ball date he picked her again (he could have easily have chosen either Natalie or Chrystal). But in the sponge pit is where things unravel a bit. Being in a sponge pit is the perfect excuse to roll together. It’s like a saggy bed and when one person is heavier the other person rolls towards them. He had the perfect excuse to be legitimately closer to her. However, he spreads his arms wide with his elbow pointing slightly towards her which is a more of a “sit back” pose. As for the kiss at the end, she initiates it and she is the one leaning over him.

But the most telling thing for me is this – he doesn’t help her get up or out of the pit. He kind of leaves her to herself.  If a guy is really crushing on a girl he is always looking for a good excuse to touch her without putting himself “out there”. I know when my husband was courting me (God I sound so old fashioned! ) he would his hand on my back going upstairs or hold out his hand to pull me up. These are just gentlemanly things to do and a very good excuse to touch someone without  being too obvious that you kind of fancy them.

Maybe he had a bit of a “whoa” moment when he realised things were going a little too quickly with her. He might be “cooling his jets” a little for a few weeks.

The other thing I have noticed is that when things start to get a little more serious and intense with one of the girls at the following rose ceremony he makes that girl one of the last to receive a rose. It’s happened to Poppy, Matilda and Dani. It’s almost his subtle way of saying “hey – nothing has been decided, there are other girls here so don’t get your hopes up that you are number 1”. He might be completely unaware that he is doing it.

I also asked my daughter who she thought would win and straight away she said Matilda. I asked her why and the answer she gave was not want I expected. She thinks Matilda is the one because Art teases her and to quote my daughter “boys always teases girls they like.” Art put her on the spot and made her dive (even though she said she couldn’t and the first was a good belly flop! Which he laughed at) and then wouldn’t hand over the rose when she went to take it after performing her Haiku.


So my pick, at this stage (I reserve the right to change my might as the season progresses) for final 3 are Matilda, Dani and Alysha.  I think Alysha is too serious and not easy going enough for Art. Plus her constant rolling of her Rs is driving me nuts! (It’s a very southern thing to do and very endearing for the first 15 minutes before it becomes annoying!)

 Thank you for your post! I agree that we will not see a love declaration at the end of all this. Art is a lot like Tim was in Season 1 of The Bachelor Australia. Art has also said he is not one for PDA so I don't see him progressing further than a few chaste kisses here and there and a promise of continuing their journey like Tim did with Anna on Bachelor Australia Season 2. I prefer this since it is what I am used to from my own background (South Africans are not that different from Kiwis and I have relatives and friends that emigrated to NZ that fit right in with the culture). I think Matilda and Art make a great match and I can see them working out post-show. They both seem happy.

Regarding the bolded part of you saying your hubby put his hand at your back... 
Art did the same thing with Matilda on the last episode when they were walking back to the other girls. He placed his hand on her back -- almost a support/protective/possessive thing that shows he fancies her without being too obvious. And this was after she had told him her Haiku. So, they definitely progressed a lot together. Also posted here with screen cap pictures https://www.bachandbachettefans.net/t2871p72-bachelor-new-zealand-matilda#782093 that I thought they looked like a couple and were having friends over for dinner at the pool party that evening. They just seemed like they were the only ones there -- just the two of them. 

Another thing that you may have also noticed is that Art's interest in Matilda hasn't diminished while his interest in the other girls (Chrystal, Dani to a lesser degree) is starting to wane and his interest increased for Alysha.

Regarding Alysha, she spent the last episode talking with Chrystal and not focused on Art (which I think is a sign she is not that into him and that she rather wants him to be into her!). I agree that Alysha is too serious for him. He doesn't seem like himself or as fun with her as he does with Matilda (and he definitely flirts with Matilda... when he held the rose back so she couldn't take it from him after her Haiku he looked just like my hubby does when he is goofing around!). I also don't think Art is Alysha's type at all and why Art won't pick her... I posted my thoughts here on why this is the https://www.bachandbachettefans.net/t2891p36-bachelor-new-zealand-alysha#782628.

We also share the same views and have the same final three (as does Mercieme, Mura, HEA and others) of Matilda, Dani and Alysha. 

Dani is fun and he was definitely attracted but I think he wanted something a bit more. I noticed that during his date with Dani, Art was telling her about the trees and Dani was dismissive about it. To me, that was a red flag because guys like to teach a girl something. It is a way of connecting with them. Dani didn't want to learn from Art about those trees. However, when it came to Matilda and her diving in the pool, Art wanted to teach her how to dive and she wanted to learn and it was something he celebrated with his hands in the air yelling "yeah!" when she learnt how to dive. And then Matilda and Art agreed it was the most fun date yet. 

Will be interesting to see how Matilda's injury affects things...

mercieme wrote:Katiebelle, really love reading your perspective especially on how Kiwis are. This is just perfect for me becasue I am tired of the "bubble" love story from the US and CAN Bach franchise.

I am really enjoying BACH NZ because it's more realistic and I actually think has a better chance at success if they continue on this part of not forcing a love story that is impossible over the course of the weeks that they filmed for.

Most of us are aligned with your F3 prediction we just differ when it comes to who F1 is.

Another thing that we have speculated is if Art is still with his F1. I would love to get your perspective on that. I actually still think Art is still with his F1, no way he is doing an interview segment with his mum if he already broke up with his F1 IMO.

I so agree with you Mercieme on US and Bach Can (and Bach US S2)!

If the franchises just got rid of the proposal at the end of 6-8 weeks it would be so much better, less pressure for everyone.

As much as it may not seem as romantic or not as passionate, I prefer it in the end if it is more on the same pace as real life.

I remain hopeful that whomever Art picked he is still with and they get to date each other in the real world.

The final girl will certainly have less to worry about watching the show since Art won't be declaring he is in love with a bunch of girls and I am sure all the girls and even Art can be friends because not a bunch of drama regarding people's hearts and leading people on. That is what I like about Art. He is not leading anyone on.

So just skimmed through the last 2 pages, and looks like I will have to pay attention to Art's relationship with Matilda.

thank you for your insights KAtieBelle. Let me push a little bit further your analysis.

I think at the jumping with dani and art. if you go to the screen thread you will see that dani changed her position to face him with her knees on top of his legs at the end of the segment. Let remember that those few minutes on TV are hours of taping. So I think they had a serious conversation and arthur was in a WTH moment when dani told him probably who was who at the mansion. She explain half would be happy and the other half would not. It was obvious to me that arthur was somehow shocked but it was a partial cut and edited conversation. Dani mentioned that she spent a lot of time with him. which means what it means: lot of time for her, not enough for the other that resented that toward her. Arthur looked upset.

He also said that he woke up and thought that he liked all the girls at the mansion. A guy do not say that out of the blue to the girl he kissed and talked a lot with. It was in a middle of a conversation and I think what was cut was that indeed he liked all the girls and at this stage of the journey, it was not longer fun and play but feelings were starting to show up. so either he was upset to upset some girls because it is not in his nature to do so, or he was upset to discover that maybe some where not there for the right reasons.

something was said. maybe arthur asked dani questions. at the end she wanted to comfort him. she initiated the kiss to say: do not worry, I have your back, everything will be all right. I did not see much about the helping her to stand up. I think he truly was in his upset bubble and not in their bubble

even if we have partner, some conversation do not lead necessary to kisses and touches all the time. It does not mean the person is not into this person, it means that at that precise moment, romance was not in the air.

I agree with your daughter about teasing and so far he teased a lot matilda at the swimming pool... but dani was not around... and it was such a boring swimming pool party no? the only girl who brought fun was matilda so no surprise he turned around her.

I have to disagree about the cat walk. dani was the only one arthur was saying WOW. if you look carefully at the jump party, arthur could not stop looking in dani's direction. I will post all the looks in a minute. It was dani and no one else during this group date.

Linds911 wrote:So just skimmed through the last 2 pages, and looks like I will have to pay attention to Art's relationship with Matilda.

matilda is a favorite but I am rooting for dani!!! lolll

Linds911 wrote:So just skimmed through the last 2 pages, and looks like I will have to pay attention to Art's relationship with Matilda.

Lots of posts in Matilda's thread you can check out as you watch https://www.bachandbachettefans.net/t2871-bachelor-new-zealand-matilda. (There are threads for each of the contestants).

yeah but since AAL is spreading all her love for matilda only on each thread, it is a bit biaised eh? LOLLLLLLLLL


DANI .... DANI..... DANI.....