Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - Episode 4 - *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion

AllAboutLove wrote:

Jolena wrote:Im surprised Becca and Whitney are on the same date. They usually split up the F1 & F2 and keep them on seperate dates and as far apart as possible.

Okay. So you just touched on something that I brought up in another thread.

There is definitely a "Wedding Theme" going on with Whitney and Chris (Wedding Crashing in Ep 3, Wedding Dress mud run Ep 4, and mural date with Chris in Des Moines with bridal bouquet harkening back to her not catching it in Ep 3).

Anyway, so here are my thoughts on why both F2 on a group date together...

Much has been stated that the "Wedding Theme" is usually a bad omen. Well, on this upcoming episode we will see both F2 girls in wedding gowns - as spoiled and speculated on this thread, Whitney (F1) and Becca (F2).

So if wearing a wedding dress is a bad sign/omen, then it is only going to be bad luck for one of them and if Becca is indeed F2 then it is bad luck for her.

i can only speak for myself. To my knowledge, the 1-1 Date with Wedding Theme was never a good sign, as the couple got that never ended up as the final couple. For GD, its a different story. We already had Mr and Mrs. Rosenboum after all, despite that particular jealoush-ish Wedding Photo Shoot Group Date. JMO

Has there been a 1:1 wedding theme date with the Bachelor as lead and one of the F2 girls in past seasons?

AllAboutLove wrote:Has there been a 1:1 wedding theme date with the Bachelor as lead and one of the F2 girls in past seasons?

Not that I recall.  The closest you can come to it is the art date with Sean/Desiree. There have been so many seasons though. I might have forgotten one.

I don't compare past seasons or specifically Bachelorette seasons to Bachelor ones.  There are too many contradictions.  Such as, having no intro vid.  JP had an intro vid.

atem wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:Has there been a 1:1 wedding theme date with the Bachelor as lead and one of the F2 girls in past seasons?

Not that I recall.  

I don't compare past seasons or specifically Bachelorette seasons to Bachelor ones.  There are too many contradictions.  Such as, having no intro vid.  JP had an intro vid.  

Comparing past seasons are fine for me, but I don't compare Bachelor to Bachelorette seasons. They are not the same at all. The man is always the chaser (rose or no rose, he is the one that proposes on the Bachelorette) and thus comparison's of Bachelor to Bachelorette (like Des/Brooks and others) don't make sense at all (since Brooks wasn't chasing Des, wedding dress date or not) to me.

It always comes back to who the lead is chasing concerning the Bachelor and and who is chasing the Bachelorette, imo.

Whatever the *edit* is for this season, I still look at who Chris is chasing -- even if he does it in a more passive way than most leads, I will look at whomever he shows the most interest in over an extended period of time and it doesn't wane but increase. JMO

I just don't think that by epi 3 they knew Whitney was going to be his F1 and decided to put her on a wedding date foreshadowing the outcome. JMHO

I posted somewhere as many seasons as I could remember where they had wedding themes in the epi's, and other chimed in with many more, but none of it was anything worthy of using as sleuthing.

AllAboutLove wrote:Has there been a 1:1 wedding theme date with the Bachelor as lead and one of the F2 girls in past seasons?

Ben Flajnick with Nicki, his F3. Someone pls CMIIW

eirekay wrote:

KB_Mom wrote:

MiniDiva wrote:Ashley I. drops her top during the swimming date, not sure if she dropped the bottoms though.      See SC in Analysis thread.

 Didn't someone speculate she went into the tent with Chris too?

I haven't speculated previously about it but from my view of s\c, I think Ashley I did go in the tent. In my mind, and based on earlier s\c, not instead of but in addition to Kaitlyn.

From preview, I think in addition  to Ashley I taking her bikini top off, there is another girl (DK who- maybe Kaitlyn?) who takes her bikini bottom off.

It's getting harder and harder to buy the "Virgin" schtick between having someone rub your belly button ring for wishes and taking your top off on national Tv Ashley I!

I guess this just goes to prove that class is not necessarily related to your sexual status. You can be a classless virgin or a classy non-virgin. I believe it is defintitely Ashley I in the tent, because she has this tendency to rise up/stand up/take a higher position when she is kissing CS. You can see this move in the tent kiss clip. It's like she wants to take the lead or assume the position of power during the making out.

GuardianAngel wrote:I just don't think that by epi 3 they knew Whitney was going to be his F1 and decided to put her on a wedding date foreshadowing the outcome. JMHO

I posted somewhere as many seasons as I could remember where they had wedding themes in the epi's, and other chimed in with many more, but none of it was anything worthy of using as sleuthing.

ITA! Someone posted about this or another thread (cannot keep track but credit to whomever you are! great post! I will edit this post witht the name as soon as I find it) and speculated that they gave Whitney that date because they thought she would be most up for crashing the wedding and making Chris comfortable and comporting herself well while being a wedding crasher. They also stated that they think that they didn't see Whitney as a frontrunner at that time at all and so this went hand in hand with giving her that date and were probably just as surprised as Chris was at how much Chris really liked her by that time.

I think this even explains Chris ITM saying he was "excited" about Whitney and I posted at the time for Episode 1 that it struck me that he was saying this at a later stage/date.

So I agree that this date was probably not planned for Chris's frontrunner but Whitney probably became one after this date and so maybe that is why they tie in the bridal bouquet (in lieu of a rose??) during the mural date to harken back to when Chris really noticed her.

I did read an interview where Chris said he had a top 3 first night but that changed by the end.

GuardianAngel wrote:I just don't think that by epi 3 they knew Whitney was going to be his F1 and decided to put her on a wedding date foreshadowing the outcome. JMHO

I posted somewhere as many seasons as I could remember where they had wedding themes in the epi's, and other chimed in with many more, but none of it was anything worthy of using as sleuthing.

There was a pattern of the first 1 on 1 being the person that got the next lead. I think they had Eric and Brooks in mind for the lead. I can't imagine they were considering Megan for that though. Maybe this date was meant to be Whitney's audition for 'ette. Chris said he thought she was cute and sweet, but was basically admitting he hadn't been bowled over by her up to that point. That comment makes me think he didn't pick her for the date. There are other girls that are outgoing enough to fake their way through the wedding. Britt could have showcased her acting skills, Kardashley would have loved it, Jillian and Carly aren't shy. Maybe it's another F1 clue for Whitney. Would they be auditioning Nikki at the premiere or talking up Britt if they could have Whitney as the lead? Maybe they think her voice would turn too many off. I don't think it will by the end, but could be wrong. She's got a good back story and career for the lead, plus she's outgoing enough. I'd prefer someone with more zest like Kaitlyn, but Whitney fits their mold better. Since they still seem to be questioning who the lead will be it makes me wonder if things did change course on that date.

grace8136 wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:I just don't think that by epi 3 they knew Whitney was going to be his F1 and decided to put her on a wedding date foreshadowing the outcome. JMHO

I posted somewhere as many seasons as I could remember where they had wedding themes in the epi's, and other chimed in with many more, but none of it was anything worthy of using as sleuthing.

There was a pattern of the first 1 on 1 being the person that got the next lead. I think they had Eric and Brooks in mind for the lead.  I can't imagine they were considering Megan for that though. Maybe this date was meant to be Whitney's audition for 'ette. Chris said he thought she was cute and sweet, but was basically admitting he hadn't been bowled over by her up to that point. That comment makes me think he didn't pick her for the date. There are other girls that are outgoing enough to fake their way through the wedding. Britt could have showcased her acting skills, Kardashley would have loved it, Jillian and Carly aren't shy. Maybe it's another F1 clue for Whitney. Would they be auditioning Nikki at the premiere or talking up Britt if they could have Whitney as the lead? Maybe they think her voice would turn too many off. I don't think it will by the end, but could be wrong. She's got a good back story and career for the lead, plus she's outgoing enough. I'd prefer someone with more zest like Kaitlyn, but Whitney fits their mold better. Since they still seem to be questioning who the lead will be it makes me wonder if things did change course on that date.

This could have to do with what Luvstruck posted above about Chris's top 3 changing.

Britt was definitely in his top 3 from the start so Whitney could very well have been put on the wedding crashing date since she wasn't in his top 3 at the time (I am thinking Britt and Becca were in his top 3 list). So, maybe they thought to give Whit an early date and save the later ones (by 5th/6th episode) for Britt/Becca but Chris actually ended up really liking Whitney? If Chris was more into brunettes, and that seems to be the case based on Andi and his ex-fiance, maybe he was surprised by just how much he liked Whitney.

Luvstruck wrote:I did read an interview where Chris said he had a top 3 first night but that changed by the end.

While Chris has remained tight-lipped about who his initial faves were during the Season 19 Premiere — though helpful host Chris Harrison did drop his “five to watch” over here — he did recently admit that three lovely gals stood out to him on Night 1. So, how did he pick ‘em? By intuition, of course!

"The criteria that I used for almost all the show is kind of just going with my gut feeling, you know, and using that,” Chris explained. “It was really the only thing I counted on most of the time, because there's so many great women and so many tough decisions.”

Unfortunately, it seems like the 33-year-old farmer wasn’t totally on point with his character judgment.

"[I had] a Top 3, and that Top 3 was completely — by the end — and totally different than what I actually had imagined in my mind after I met the women,” Chris conceded. “So, yeah, I learned some things and felt different things as I moved forward with the women."

What exactly changed his mind? A number of things — it wasn’t all a matter of a lack of “right reasons” — but, luckily, he figured that all out over time.

"In some cases, [I] learned that they maybe weren't who I thought they were, or just feelings weren't there or the chemistry wasn't there as I got to know them,” the Iowa native dished. “So, yeah. There's a lot of things that changed after that first night, definitely.”

http://www.wetpaint.com/the-bachelor/articles/2014-12-16-chris-soules-top-three-premiere