Re: Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - Whitney Bischoff - Fan Forum - *Spoilers* - *Speculation* - Discussion

[atem]

What was the clue? Thanks!

[Rolly]

Whit and Chris should have beautiful children that should really appreciate their parents.

A point of interest from observing. Do any of you remember when Whitney came back from the date where she met his friends and saw for the first time, the mural that was painted of her and Chris.

If memory serves me correctly, Becca and a couple other girls were asking her how the date went. I recall she told of meeting his friends and of the mural that was painted with her and Chris. Don't think for a minute that they did not think she was getting an edge.

My speculation is that the girls know, the final 4, where they fit in. When it came down to the final 3, he and CH new he was going to keep Whitney. The Bachelor knew which girl was the one they wanted to keep for the Bachelorette. Thus the decision was made that Katlyn was the choice of the Bachelor for their next lead. So Becca was elevated to F2. There is so much manipulation on the part of the Bachelor that it is hard to distinguish truth from fiction.  I don't think they care how many feelings are hurt or damaged in getting their way.

Great observations and I think...especially he bolded.

Yes ... beautiful kids for sure ... and yes ... CH and Chris knew he was keeping Whitney at F3.

Disagree about girls know where they will fall in F4... while the girls are all together in the house, they probably have a good idea of who his favorites are and I think the girls assumed at that stage (when W described mural date) that the front runners were Britt, Jade, Kaitlyn, Whitney and Becca. I also think that many thought Britt had edge since she got GDR/concert on date that included Kaitlyn, Jade, Whitney and Carly. So Becca could have just been happy to hear that Whitney had great date so Chris was not 100% settled on Britt.

But, once the F4 go separate ways, they have NO WAY to judge progress of other relationships. And they have producers whispering in their ears and messing with their heads about where they stand in Chris' pecking order.

Jason Mesnick shared on podcast about when it was down to him and Jesse on Deanna's season, he saw a text come through on his producer's phone about their flight leaving right after the rose ceremony or something like that. Jason said that EVEN knowing that fact - which would not have made sense for F1 - his handler managed to convince him that he was still F1 going into rose ceremony, which is why Jason got down on one knee, proposed and faced the humiliation of rejection from Deanna.  

I used to never believe the lead when they'd say the morning of the FRC that they gained "clarity" and know who to pick. But, after listening to both Jason and Sean speak candidly about their experiences, I do believe it. Leads like Jason, Sean and Chris who take their role seriously and want a wife at the end, probably follow the producers instructions to the "T" and give every relationship a shot until they are told otherwise.

When I say that ep 3 was a "game over" date for Chris, I think that the date put Whitney firmly among the top picks for him and that she became the one to beat. I do think that he kept testing out all the other relationships along the way and that Chris was never acting with his Final 6 girls because he was trying to keep each relationship separate (as production told him to do). After Kaitlyn went home, producers finally pulled back and stopped messing with Chris' head so that he could pick the woman who was best for him all along: Whitney!

MVMom many interesting points in your post. Do you really think the bolded? My fear is they keeping messing with their heads right up until the FRC. Making F1 feel unsure and F2 think they are the one.

[Rolly]

milo, thanks again for sharing your information!

MiniDiva! awesome barn sleuthing you got going on there. I love that barn. I love all barns. I can picture it filled with plants flowers and of course roses or rather one rose!

I love barns too especially pictures of old barns. And what a romantic place to have a wedding because it is so significant for Chris and his F1 now too. What a peaceful place to be!

[lurker11]

Finally downloaded US Weekly, the article really added confirmation to me about Whitney winning

[Lucas15]

So much to digest about this and I won't attempt to publish everything that was said, but let me share some perceptions of the full US Weekly article, the issue with the cover story about Chris.

Firstly, I consider this information to be largely correct. As a few others have posted, in the last week or two before the finale the show will typically leak real inside information to one or more tabloids. They want article to appear in supermarket checkout lines that will generate interest in watching the finale to see what happens, and the tabloids stir up interest. The tabloids have to write articles that are mostly accurate or they lose their credibility so the show helps them out with inside information and the tabloids helps the show out with a flashy cover story. They never say specific names but they do describe situations.

So, the cover has the headlines:

"She just didn't feel it"
"Bachelor Rejected"
"Chris agonizes over the final two - then gets engaged! But only after one reveals her true feelings."

And as one might guess if you read tabloids, the article inside is pretty much nothing like the cover headlines.

In bullet points, here's what the article includes as meaningful information:

- Chris struggled at the end and was really a wreck.
- "The final decision was made for him when one girl wasn't ready to be Mrs Soules." But "it came down to a feeling" "The runner up wasn't as into him so he didn't choose her". Note - NO ONE bailed and no one rejected Chris - Chris made his decision based on his perception of the depth of feelings between the two girls
- Soules relationship with Tilly moved much slower than most. It wasn't Tilly's lack of sexual experience that bothered Soules, it was her uncertainty about their future.
- CH told US that was Soules chief hang-up - "he really didn't know where Tilly stands". "Becca had a hard time opening up, she's never been in love and she's feeling a lot of things for the first time, so yeah - that probably is a red flag".
- "He genuinely fell in love with both women. In terms of the Bachelor not being sure who to pick they were probably the closest ever". :But the runner-up wasn't as into him so he didn't choose her." NOTE - yes - the article connected these dots just as clearly as I am in this post; Chris made his decision because he wasn't sure one girl was ready to be his wife, and Becca never made Chris certain about their future. It is very hard for me to not draw a line between those two points!
- Bischoff flashed warning signs on her own. "Chris sought a woman who's successful in her own right" but Chris later worried she might be too successful to want to start over in a town of 427 people.
- Though Whitney assured Chris she was ready to be a farmer's wife and was generous with those 3 little words Soules wondered if she'd change her mind at the last minute.
- Whitney's sister's refusal to give her blessing but instead "Call me when you can say she's the only one" was a cause for anxiety. But the article also said that Whitney's family was the only family blessing Soules requested.
- Chris may have been conflicted towards the end but 3 months after proposing with a Neil Lane diamond - and getting a "Yes" from his final choice - he has his feelings sorted out. "I'm in love" and "we're working on establishing a relationship outside of this crazy world we just went through".
- Don't expect Soules to pull a move a la Jason Mesnick and dump the winner for the runner-up. "Chris is very happy."

I've tried, though it's been hard, to as best I can the tone and balance of the article as it came across to me. I'll admit to a bias as before reading the article I felt there were many reasons to believe that Whitney is F1 and I've tried not to only read things in the article that only support Whitney, but the article leads you down a very clear path.

[milo05]

Sorry I spoke to soon. There is an older one is the preview. It could be that one as well.

I wonder if it is true that the parents were fixing the barn up where the FR ceremony was in? Do any of our posters know of people that live close by that would know this?

I can ask my source sometime this week if I see her. She would know which barn it was as she was the one who told me they were spending a lot of money to revamp it for the show finale. She told me this back in January so I can't remember which one she specifically said.

[Rolly]

So much to digest about this and I won't attempt to publish everything that was said, but let me share some perceptions of the full US Weekly article, the issue with the cover story about Chris.

Firstly, I consider this information to be largely correct. As a few others have posted, in the last week or two before the finale the show will typically leak real inside information to one or more tabloids. They want article to appear in supermarket checkout lines that will generate interest in watching the finale to see what happens, and the tabloids stir up interest. The tabloids have to write articles that are mostly accurate or they lose their credibility so the show helps them out with inside information and the tabloids helps the show out with a flashy cover story. They never say specific names but they do describe situations.

So, the cover has the headlines:

"She just didn't feel it"
"Bachelor Rejected"
"Chris agonizes over the final two - then gets engaged! But only after one reveals her true feelings."

And as one might guess if you read tabloids, the article inside is pretty much nothing like the cover headlines.

In bullet points, here's what the article includes as meaningful information:

- Chris struggled at the end and was really a wreck.
- "The final decision was made for him when one girl wasn't ready to be Mrs Soules." But "it came down to a feeling" "The runner up wasn't as into him so he didn't choose her". Note - NO ONE bailed and no one rejected Chris - Chris made his decision based on his perception of the depth of feelings between the two girls
- Soules relationship with Tilly moved much slower than most. It wasn't Tilly's lack of sexual experience that bothered Soules, it was her uncertainty about their future.
- CH told US that was Soules chief hang-up - "he really didn't know where Tilly stands". "Becca had a hard time opening up, she's never been in love and she's feeling a lot of things for the first time, so yeah - that probably is a red flag".
- "He genuinely fell in love with both women. In terms of the Bachelor not being sure who to pick they were probably the closest ever". :But the runner-up wasn't as into him so he didn't choose her." NOTE - yes - the article connected these dots just as clearly as I am in this post; Chris made his decision because he wasn't sure one girl was ready to be his wife, and Becca never made Chris certain about their future. It is very hard for me to not draw a line between those two points!
- Bischoff flashed warning signs on her own. "Chris sought a woman who's successful in her own right" but Chris later worried she might be too successful to want to start over in a town of 427 people.
- Though Whitney assured Chris she was ready to be a farmer's wife and was generous with those 3 little words Soules wondered if she'd change her mind at the last minute.
- Whitney's sister's refusal to give her blessing but instead "Call me when you can say she's the only one" was a cause for anxiety. But the article also said that Whitney's family was the only family blessing Soules requested.
- Chris may have been conflicted towards the end but 3 months after proposing with a Neil Lane diamond - and getting a "Yes" from his final choice - he has his feelings sorted out. "I'm in love" and "we're working on establishing a relationship outside of this crazy world we just went through".
- Don't expect Soules to pull a move a la Jason Mesnick and dump the winner for the runner-up. "Chris is very happy."

I've tried, though it's been hard, to as best I can the tone and balance of the article as it came across to me. I'll admit to a bias as before reading the article I felt there were many reasons to believe that Whitney is F1 and I've tried not to only read things in the article that only support Whitney, but the article leads you down a very clear path.

Lucas I appreciate this so much. Because I too believe Whitney is F1 i would probably read it the same way you do. Great summary!

[KB_Mom]

I brought this over from General Discussion thread because I think it's a great analysis of why, despite what will inevitably be those who will post negative comments on SM, and the stories the rags will publish, Whit can feel very secure and not worry that she was a default pick.

I am not sure where to post this, so went with a general, general discussion thread.  I said this for Andi's season and felt this way about Sean and Des too and now feel it for Chris too.

The bubble is a crazy, designed to make you fall in love fast with more than one person.  So to me the lead having strong "feelings" for more than one person isn't shocking or even bad.  It is to be expected.  And to me it doesn't take away from the feelings they have for their eventual F1, if anything to me it is a bigger compliment to F1, then them not feeling anything for anyone else at all.

If there is a really great other, someone else who made them feel and was awesome, but at the end they wanted, needed or just plain really loved or liked someone else more that is fantastic.

Seriously, to me the fact that someone else was really, really good and hard to chose from at the end makes them picking me more fantastic.  I was so wonderful that in the end they chose me over something else really good?  That is a huge compliment.

The real relationship begins after the show, the time during the show is dating on steroids.  To me surviving it with something worth building on is a real accomplishment.

So just like Sean's feelings for Lindsey didn't take away from what he felt with Cat, Des's Brooks love/fascination in no way hurt her and Chris and honestly the fact that Nick and Andi had such a great connection during the show, just made her picking Josh that much more significant, whoever Chris picks should feel honored that with someone else he cared so much about at the end of the day he chose her should mean a lot.  She wasn't a fall back or a default or anything else.  At the end of the day with two great choices, she was the one he really, really wanted. That to me means more than all the fake words, bubble feelings in the world.  Given more than one great option, at the end it was you.  That to me is a real basis to build love on.

[yrkiemommy]

Is the State Restaurant, where Whitney is doing the viewing, the place they had lunch on her HTD? They didn't show any of it, but I know I read it somewhere.

I would love to know this too.  Kristinkko looks like you are pretty new to the forum Wouldn't it be fun to be at a viewing party with Whitney? :cutesmile!:

Per RS's site it was a restaurant called Quartino's on State street that they were spotted in during her HTD in Chicago.

[MVMom39forever]

But, once the F4 go separate ways, they have NO WAY to judge progress of other relationships. And they have producers whispering in their ears and messing with their heads about where they stand in Chris' pecking order.

Jason Mesnick shared on podcast about when it was down to him and Jesse on Deanna's season, he saw a text come through on his producer's phone about their flight leaving right after the rose ceremony or something like that. Jason said that EVEN knowing that fact - which would not have made sense for F1 - his handler managed to convince him that he was still F1 going into rose ceremony, which is why Jason got down on one knee, proposed and faced the humiliation of rejection from Deanna.  

I used to never believe the lead when they'd say the morning of the FRC that they gained "clarity" and know who to pick. But, after listening to both Jason and Sean speak candidly about their experiences, I do believe it. Leads like Jason, Sean and Chris who take their role seriously and want a wife at the end, probably follow the producers instructions to the "T" and give every relationship a shot until they are told otherwise.

When I say that ep 3 was a "game over" date for Chris, I think that the date put Whitney firmly among the top picks for him and that she became the one to beat. I do think that he kept testing out all the other relationships along the way and that Chris was never acting with his Final 6 girls because he was trying to keep each relationship separate (as production told him to do). After Kaitlyn went home, producers finally pulled back and stopped messing with Chris' head so that he could pick the woman who was best for him all along: Whitney!

MVMom many interesting points in your post. Do you really think the bolded? My fear is they keeping messing with their heads right up until the FRC. Making F1 feel unsure and F2 think they are the one.

YES and to clarify ... I think handlers mess with the F1/Whitney and F2/Becca until the end. I think or should say HOPE that they pull back on the lead/CHris after F3 goes so that he can FINALLY propose to right one and get all the "noise" of other women cleared out.

I think that productions wants good TV but I do think (and appreciate many disagree) that they also want a successful couple in the end - esp after JP's season.

EDITED ... realized I had not answered question ... whoops

[Rolly]

But, once the F4 go separate ways, they have NO WAY to judge progress of other relationships. And they have producers whispering in their ears and messing with their heads about where they stand in Chris' pecking order.

Jason Mesnick shared on podcast about when it was down to him and Jesse on Deanna's season, he saw a text come through on his producer's phone about their flight leaving right after the rose ceremony or something like that. Jason said that EVEN knowing that fact - which would not have made sense for F1 - his handler managed to convince him that he was still F1 going into rose ceremony, which is why Jason got down on one knee, proposed and faced the humiliation of rejection from Deanna.  

I used to never believe the lead when they'd say the morning of the FRC that they gained "clarity" and know who to pick. But, after listening to both Jason and Sean speak candidly about their experiences, I do believe it. Leads like Jason, Sean and Chris who take their role seriously and want a wife at the end, probably follow the producers instructions to the "T" and give every relationship a shot until they are told otherwise.

When I say that ep 3 was a "game over" date for Chris, I think that the date put Whitney firmly among the top picks for him and that she became the one to beat. I do think that he kept testing out all the other relationships along the way and that Chris was never acting with his Final 6 girls because he was trying to keep each relationship separate (as production told him to do). After Kaitlyn went home, producers finally pulled back and stopped messing with Chris' head so that he could pick the woman who was best for him all along: Whitney!

MVMom many interesting points in your post. Do you really think the bolded? My fear is they keeping messing with their heads right up until the FRC. Making F1 feel unsure and F2 think they are the one.

YES and to clarify ... I think handlers mess with the F1/Whitney and F2/Becca until the end. I think or should say HOPE that they pull back on the lead/CHris after F3 goes so that he can FINALLY propose to right one and get all the "noise" of other women cleared out.

I think that productions wants good TV but I do think (and appreciate many disagree) that they also want a successful couple in the end - esp after JP's season.

EDITED ... realized I had not answered question ... whoops

MVMom for clarifying...I agree. (Great minds think alike! )

[MVMom39forever]

^^ Yes, Rolly ...

Thank you to Lucas. I tend to believe US as well. There have been many times when I did not want to believe them but they seem to generally get most of it right with some added drama to boost readership.

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