Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - Discussion - #2

What I've been thinking is that if we want to put a lot of importance on Chris and Whitney's first date, because that's when he was so giddy, then shouldn't he have had her as #1 since then? I don't think he did. He stole Britt away right in front of her despite the fact that she definitely would've enjoyed a country music concert more than Britt. That shows that Britt was at least as important if not more important to him at the time. Then there's Jade who got to go to his home and town and old school and met his parents. As great as Whitney's date in Des Moines was, I think Jade's date trumps it in importance. Now both Jade and Britt are gone, but not because their connection fizzled naturally. Britt was shown to be a fake by the other girls and threw a tantrum, which put Chris off her. Jade turned out to be very different than he had imagined with the Playboy pics and all. If neither of those things had happened (Britt's tantrum and Jade's nude model past), then would Whitney even still be there? He clearly likes and respects her, but was she really a shoo-in for the F3 until some others essentially took themselves out of the competition?

Now on the other hand, he's clearly been chasing Becca in the last few episodes. Giving her a second 1-on-1 right after the first is a clear sign that he really wants to get to know her better. Then during the HTD her family said some things that should be very concerning for a touchy-feely person like Chris, yet at the end of the date he seemed totally smitten, like none of that mattered at all. It's just been such a clear and fast progression in his feelings for her lately that there's no doubt in my mind that Becca would've been there no matter who else was still in the running.

mindless wrote:What I've been thinking is that if we want to put a lot of importance on Chris and Whitney's first date, because that's when he was so giddy, then shouldn't he have had her as #1 since then? I don't think he did. He stole Britt away right in front of her despite the fact that she definitely would've enjoyed a country music concert more than Britt. That shows that Britt was at least as important if not more important to him at the time. Then there's Jade who got to go to his home and town and old school and met his parents. As great as Whitney's date in Des Moines was, I think Jade's date trumps it in importance. Now both Jade and Britt are gone, but not because their connection fizzled naturally. Britt was shown to be a fake by the other girls and threw a tantrum, which put Chris off her. Jade turned out to be very different than he had imagined with the Playboy pics and all. If neither of those things had happened (Britt's tantrum and Jade's nude model past), then would Whitney even still be there? He clearly likes and respects her, but was she really a shoo-in for the F3 until some others essentially took themselves out of the competition?

Now on the other hand, he's clearly been chasing Becca in the last few episodes. Giving her a second 1-on-1 right after the first is a clear sign that he really wants to get to know her better. Then during the HTD her family said some things that should be very concerning for a touchy-feely person like Chris, yet at the end of the date he seemed totally smitten, like none of that mattered at all. It's just been such a clear and fast progression in his feelings for her lately that there's no doubt in my mind that Becca would've been there no matter who else was still in the running.

I don't know that we can assume that Chris was the one to set up the other date with Becca or even who got the group date rose at the concert. We know from past contestants that is the producers. I also think that second date was set up with Becca specifically because there were no other options for the F2. Their relationship had been very slow to develop...code for not the one...and they knew about Jade's past and that it would take her out of the running. Clearly Kaitlyn was in the friend zone and they may have been looking at her for the next lead and how that needs to be set up as F3 because of the timing of filming the Bette. I think he was already losing interest in Britt, but even if he wasn't, she didn't want to be F1...she wants to be Bette. That sets her up for the same problem as Kailtyn...they don't want her as F2. Hence, they have to ramp up the relationship with Becca to make it seem more plausible. He clearly likes her and respects her, but I don't see the it factor. I could be wrong and he could pick her, but I don't see it. I feel like they are manipulating me with her.

As for Whitney being the default...obviously, I am not Chris and I don't know what is in his head, but I don't thinks so. Clearly, we will have to wait and see how the show plays out and what happens when real life rears it's ugly head, but I think that first date is when he really started thinking. I think it took him a bit to settle down and get used to "dating" all those women and get past the first hormonal rush some of them presented him with...see Britt in particular, but apparently also Jillian...and then the practical farmer came back out and he started questioning the motives of several. Including the over the top enthusiastic Britt. He started looking at not only attraction but compatibility, age, willingness to live his life and sincerity. I think over time, she was the one that he continued building a relationship with.

I don't know. I guess we shall see how everything works out but, to me, Whitney is the only one of this bunch...at least the ones we got to know...who seems mature and ready for him. As nice as Becca is and as much as I like her, she seems so much younger to me than Whitney and I know that she is only three years younger, but in terms of life experience, she is lacking...and I don't just mean the sex. IMO Chris and Whitney just seem at the same place in life and both are approaching this in a very mature manner. Maybe it lacks the thrill of a totally hormonal reaction, but I am finding it very refreshing and sweet. Of course, I can also see how a relationship with Becca might build and be a success, but I am just not seeing it...from him or her. Maybe I am being blinded by the edit but, I'm usually good at seeing past all that. I can't wait for the next few weeks. This is turning out to be one of my favourite seasons!

Sprite wrote:

mindless wrote:What I've been thinking is that if we want to put a lot of importance on Chris and Whitney's first date, because that's when he was so giddy, then shouldn't he have had her as #1 since then? I don't think he did. He stole Britt away right in front of her despite the fact that she definitely would've enjoyed a country music concert more than Britt. That shows that Britt was at least as important if not more important to him at the time. Then there's Jade who got to go to his home and town and old school and met his parents. As great as Whitney's date in Des Moines was, I think Jade's date trumps it in importance. Now both Jade and Britt are gone, but not because their connection fizzled naturally. Britt was shown to be a fake by the other girls and threw a tantrum, which put Chris off her. Jade turned out to be very different than he had imagined with the Playboy pics and all. If neither of those things had happened (Britt's tantrum and Jade's nude model past), then would Whitney even still be there? He clearly likes and respects her, but was she really a shoo-in for the F3 until some others essentially took themselves out of the competition?

Now on the other hand, he's clearly been chasing Becca in the last few episodes. Giving her a second 1-on-1 right after the first is a clear sign that he really wants to get to know her better. Then during the HTD her family said some things that should be very concerning for a touchy-feely person like Chris, yet at the end of the date he seemed totally smitten, like none of that mattered at all. It's just been such a clear and fast progression in his feelings for her lately that there's no doubt in my mind that Becca would've been there no matter who else was still in the running.

I don't know that we can assume that Chris was the one to set up the other date with Becca or even who got the group date rose at the concert. We know from past contestants that is the producers. I also think that second date was set up with Becca specifically because there were no other options for the F2. Their relationship had been very slow to develop...code for not the one...and they knew about Jade's past and that it would take her out of the running. Clearly Kaitlyn was in the friend zone and they may have been looking at her for the next lead and how that needs to be set up as F3 because of the timing of filming the Bette. I think he was already losing interest in Britt, but even if he wasn't, she didn't want to be F1...she wants to be Bette. That sets her up for the same problem as Kailtyn...they don't want her as F2. Hence, they have to ramp up the relationship with Becca to make it seem more plausible. He clearly likes her and respects her, but I don't see the it factor. I could be wrong and he could pick her, but I don't see it. I feel like they are manipulating me with her.

As for Whitney being the default...obviously, I am not Chris and I don't know what is in his head, but I don't thinks so. Clearly, we will have to wait and see how the show plays out and what happens when real life rears it's ugly head, but I think that first date is when he really started thinking. I think it took him a bit to settle down and get used to "dating" all those women and get past the first hormonal rush some of them presented him with...see Britt in particular, but apparently also Jillian...and then the practical farmer came back out and he started questioning the motives of several. Including the over the top enthusiastic Britt. He started looking at not only attraction but compatibility, age, willingness to live his life and sincerity. I think over time, she was the one that he continued building a relationship with.

I don't know. I guess we shall see how everything works out but, to me, Whitney is the only one of this bunch...at least the ones we got to know...who seems mature and ready for him. As nice as Becca is and as much as I like her, she seems so much younger to me than Whitney and I know that she is only three years younger, but in terms of life experience, she is lacking...and I don't just mean the sex. IMO Chris and Whitney just seem at the same place in life and both are approaching this in a very mature manner. Maybe it lacks the thrill of a totally hormonal reaction, but I am finding it very refreshing and sweet. Of course, I can also see how a relationship with Becca might build and be a success, but I am just not seeing it...from him or her. Maybe I am being blinded by the edit but, I'm usually good at seeing past all that. I can't wait for the next few weeks. This is turning out to be one of my favourite seasons!

I hope it is okay if I am honest as you know I respect you and tried to like Chris more for you. But I do wonder if a lot of people feel so in love with Whitney and Chris from Epi 3 that the Becca edit because it took so long to build just seems impossible because people were already firmly in love with their couple already. It reminds me so much of Des and Chris. I love and adore Brooks, still do, and their first date was over the moon awesome. I saw the growing relationship with Chris, but like many do know with Becca thought Des is so in love with Brooks already, no way can Chris catch up. But that doesn't change that the relationship with Chris was there and IMO by FDs was almost if not equal to Brooks.

I truly don't know who Chris picks. He would be lucky to get either of these women. I really expected to love Whitney with Chris, but I just don't. I admit it might be because her "I loved him before I met him" edit reminds me so much of Josh, that I am having a hard time seeing that these two are really seeing the real person. I am hoping that the FD dinner really shows real conversations between Chris and both F2.

BTW, I wonder if the pregnancy stick is a joke?

stuckinnc wrote:BTW, I wonder if the pregnancy stick is a joke?

I read somewhere early on that one of the contestants let go by Epi 5 or 6 was the girl with the Pregnancy Test and that she had had sex with someone a week or so before the show started, missed her period, and that it didn't involve Chris - in fact, as I understand it, Chris didn't know until after this girl was gone.

stuckinsc wrote:After three straight days of being here almost non stop because I can't walk, this season really is growing to be a mixture of Brad2.0 and Des to me. In both, I think we had early interaction with someone the lead had obvious interest in and really awesome first dates. Brooks's first date was so good that anytime we started getting doubtful we would think of that amazing date and then in episode 7 with the "running" metaphor and Des at the finish line with the fireworks in the background. It was great, on HTD she was so concerned with Brooks's family liking her. BUT, what most of us failed to see and acknowledge was the sweet growing relationship with Chris. He was the slow building simmer to Brooks's rapid boil. His episode 7 and HTD were every bit as great as Brooks's and maybe even a little better. Des had a calm confidence with Chris as opposed to that giddiness that was there with Brooks. Honestly, I am not so sure that if Brooks had stayed and not been over joyed or extremely reciprocating of Des's ILY. That she wouldn't have chosen Chris anyway. That whole season, even though I adore Brooks I felt that Des's subconscious and BL showed that deep down Chris was the right one for her.

snipped

StuckinSC snipped your post, but agree with the whole thing. This paragraph has been my thinking too. So similar to Brad's and Des' seasons. I couldn't get past Brooks because 1) I loved him so much myself and 2) that first date . But in retrospect obviously a real, genuine and naturally paced love was building for Des with Chris. It was a long while ago that we saw Chris totally smitten with Whitney, which I have no doubt he was. I can see he has strong feelings towards her. But I see a romantic pursuit with Becca and a man who has the look of falling in love growing in his eyes and demeanor since their one on one. Even in tonight's previews, look at the way he's looking at and holding Becca. I can already see it in the previews. Plus Whitney's many PI's about marrying Chris, how sure she is and their future babies etc. Makes me worry for her everytime I see that since usually on this show, you're doomed if you do. Same type of thing as showing Des say how she loved Brooks so early.

He might weigh his 2 great options both of whom he cares for and go with Whitney who is a more logical choice for his stage and place in life. But there's no doubt to me I've been watching a love story between him and Becca in every scene we've had of them on the show.

I truly don't know who Chris picks. He would be lucky to get either of these women. I really expected to love Whitney with Chris, but I just don't. I admit it might be because her "I loved him before I met him" edit reminds me so much of Josh, that I am having a hard time seeing that these two are really seeing the real person. I am hoping that the FD dinner really shows real conversations between Chris and both F2.

BTW, I wonder if the pregnancy stick is a joke?

Regardless whose "stick" is hers
He's kahnfident in his soldiers.

Yet you may wish to do some trimmin'
To the line "either of these women"

Maybe use a line like "any of three"?
Since three taste the fruit of Bali

Even though Whit and Becca give him a glow
They aren't the only monkeys putting on a show

Give it time. Maybe 10 PM?
Then you can do your happy dance for them

Don't let our minds get too set
Since *she* hasn't been eliminated just... yet

Y'see, in-between talks of virgins and "whining'
There's still room for firecrackers combining

After all, as of this time now
He still has that additional field to plow

stuckinsc wrote:

Sprite wrote:

mindless wrote:What I've been thinking is that if we want to put a lot of importance on Chris and Whitney's first date, because that's when he was so giddy, then shouldn't he have had her as #1 since then? I don't think he did. He stole Britt away right in front of her despite the fact that she definitely would've enjoyed a country music concert more than Britt. That shows that Britt was at least as important if not more important to him at the time. Then there's Jade who got to go to his home and town and old school and met his parents. As great as Whitney's date in Des Moines was, I think Jade's date trumps it in importance. Now both Jade and Britt are gone, but not because their connection fizzled naturally. Britt was shown to be a fake by the other girls and threw a tantrum, which put Chris off her. Jade turned out to be very different than he had imagined with the Playboy pics and all. If neither of those things had happened (Britt's tantrum and Jade's nude model past), then would Whitney even still be there? He clearly likes and respects her, but was she really a shoo-in for the F3 until some others essentially took themselves out of the competition?

Now on the other hand, he's clearly been chasing Becca in the last few episodes. Giving her a second 1-on-1 right after the first is a clear sign that he really wants to get to know her better. Then during the HTD her family said some things that should be very concerning for a touchy-feely person like Chris, yet at the end of the date he seemed totally smitten, like none of that mattered at all. It's just been such a clear and fast progression in his feelings for her lately that there's no doubt in my mind that Becca would've been there no matter who else was still in the running.

I don't know that we can assume that Chris was the one to set up the other date with Becca or even who got the group date rose at the concert. We know from past contestants that is the producers. I also think that second date was set up with Becca specifically because there were no other options for the F2. Their relationship had been very slow to develop...code for not the one...and they knew about Jade's past and that it would take her out of the running. Clearly Kaitlyn was in the friend zone and they may have been looking at her for the next lead and how that needs to be set up as F3 because of the timing of filming the Bette. I think he was already losing interest in Britt, but even if he wasn't, she didn't want to be F1...she wants to be Bette. That sets her up for the same problem as Kailtyn...they don't want her as F2. Hence, they have to ramp up the relationship with Becca to make it seem more plausible. He clearly likes her and respects her, but I don't see the it factor. I could be wrong and he could pick her, but I don't see it. I feel like they are manipulating me with her.

As for Whitney being the default...obviously, I am not Chris and I don't know what is in his head, but I don't thinks so. Clearly, we will have to wait and see how the show plays out and what happens when real life rears it's ugly head, but I think that first date is when he really started thinking. I think it took him a bit to settle down and get used to "dating" all those women and get past the first hormonal rush some of them presented him with...see Britt in particular, but apparently also Jillian...and then the practical farmer came back out and he started questioning the motives of several. Including the over the top enthusiastic Britt. He started looking at not only attraction but compatibility, age, willingness to live his life and sincerity. I think over time, she was the one that he continued building a relationship with.

I don't know. I guess we shall see how everything works out but, to me, Whitney is the only one of this bunch...at least the ones we got to know...who seems mature and ready for him. As nice as Becca is and as much as I like her, she seems so much younger to me than Whitney and I know that she is only three years younger, but in terms of life experience, she is lacking...and I don't just mean the sex. IMO Chris and Whitney just seem at the same place in life and both are approaching this in a very mature manner. Maybe it lacks the thrill of a totally hormonal reaction, but I am finding it very refreshing and sweet. Of course, I can also see how a relationship with Becca might build and be a success, but I am just not seeing it...from him or her. Maybe I am being blinded by the edit but, I'm usually good at seeing past all that. I can't wait for the next few weeks. This is turning out to be one of my favourite seasons!

I hope it is okay if I am honest as you know I respect you and tried to like Chris more for you. But I do wonder if a lot of people feel so in love with Whitney and Chris from  Epi 3 that the Becca edit because it took so long to build just seems impossible because people were already firmly in love with their couple already. It reminds me so much of Des and Chris. I love and adore Brooks, still do, and their first date was over the moon awesome. I saw the growing relationship with Chris, but like many do know with Becca thought Des is so in love with Brooks already, no way can Chris catch up. But that doesn't change that the relationship with Chris was there and IMO by FDs was almost if not equal to Brooks.

I truly don't know who Chris picks. He would be lucky to get either of these women. I really expected to love Whitney with Chris, but I just don't. I admit it might be because her "I loved him before I met him" edit reminds me so much of Josh, that I am having a hard time seeing that these two are really seeing the real person. I am hoping that the FD dinner really shows real conversations between Chris and both F2.

BTW, I wonder if the pregnancy stick is a joke?

We all see things differently stuckinsc. While we agree a lot of the time, we can't agree all the time. Every once in a while I'm not even sure if I agree with myself!

I don't know how different people approach watching the episodes and how they come to the conclusions about the relationships. I don't really compare different seasons although sometimes certain traits remind me of someone else. I never saw the love story with Des and Brooks. I saw her in love and him not. Period. I never questioned that. I will admit that I didn't really see the love story developing with Chris just because I wasn't into that season. As much as I liked Des as a person, she was not a compelling lead for me and I really wasn't into any of her guys so I didn't really pay that much attention. I thought he was her back up/face saver...even though I thought they were the best match. I'm glad it worked out, but that was a disappointing season for me because we ended up getting a love story...but, many of us missed it.

It wasn't that I was set on a Whitney and Chris relationship on Episode 3...it was just what I saw. I like Becca and I am really trying to see what you and some others are seeing there...but, I just don't. I never try to force my personal preferences on these people and for the most part, I don't see real long lasting matches happening, so I don't care who they pick. I see what I see based on my experience and on how I view the world. Sometimes they match the spoilers and sometimes they don't. Sometimes I see that they are editing something to make me see something that isn't really there...a couple who I don't believe (Emily/Brad, Emily/Jeff) or to see a person a certain way (Andi the strong). They can lead me to water but they can't make me drink!!! This is what I am getting with Becca right now. I could be wrong, but when I am really paying attention...I rarely am. I guess we have only a few weeks till we find out one way or another.

Unfortunately, I'm heading out to dinner with friends and will probably miss at least the first part of the show, but I will try to join everyone for at least part of it and then watch the rest on my PVR.

Sprite, I agree with you on Des and Brooks. I never saw a love story between those two either. Well a one-sided one yes, and it made my heart hurt for Des. She seemed so oblivious to the fact that Brooks just wasn't feeling it, even though it shone through loud and clear to me. I did notice how perfect Chris was for her, but I didn't believe she'd be able to transfer all her feelings quite that fast. I'm glad she did though.

However, I see that it factor with Becca and Chris. They just seem right to me. I never felt that way about Chris and Whitney even though I really tried, because she was spoiled as the F1. I just don't see him as fully being himself around her or the glimmer in his eye I saw with Becca especially on the HTD. I also think giving Becca the second 1-on-1 was totally his idea, because even the girls thought it would go to Kaitlyn.

But we all see things differently and that's what's so fun about this board.

But remember he then told Kaitlyn that she didnt give her a second 1-1 because he was sure about what they had and he needed more time with some others girls...

having lived first hand the pain that is infertility treatment , no man should assume his soldiers work well. I was fortunate that my ex had a high sperm count and off the chart motiliy. But I bonded with a lot of women who had to walk a very fine line with husband with a low sperm count or +low motily Not at all a sign of virility or quality of the man, but men take the experience very personally and as a sign of their manhood.

Postrcript is I conceived two beautifal children that I love with all of my heart.

Sorry to be so personal but having lived through it, the pain of wanting to experience pregnancy and child birth, and fearing you might never know that special joy, I just have a different perspesctive based on personal life experience.

KB_Mom wrote:having lived first hand the pain that is infertility treatment , no man should assume his soldiers work well. I was fortunate that my ex had a high sperm count and off the  chart motiliy. But I bonded with a lot of women who had to walk a very fine line with husband with a low sperm count or +low motily  Not at all a sign of virility or quality of the man, but men take the experience very personally and as a sign of their manhood.  

Postrcript is I conceived two beautifal children that I love with all of my heart.  

Sorry to be so personal but having lived through it, the pain of wanting to experience pregnancy and child birth, and fearing you might never know that special joy, I just have a different perspesctive based on personal life experience.  

I know there are at least a few of us grandma's who would not have our beloved grandbabes if not for IVF. I bet there are also members who went through IVF themselves. It can be a long and tortuous journey.

JBF wrote:

I truly don't know who Chris picks. He would be lucky to get either of these women. I really expected to love Whitney with Chris, but I just don't. I admit it might be because her "I loved him before I met him" edit reminds me so much of Josh, that I am having a hard time seeing that these two are really seeing the real person. I am hoping that the FD dinner really shows real conversations between Chris and both F2.

BTW, I wonder if the pregnancy stick is a joke?

Regardless whose "stick" is hers
He's kahnfident in his soldiers.

Yet you may wish to do some trimmin'
To the line "either of these women"

Maybe use a line like "any of three"?
Since three taste the fruit of Bali

Even though Whit and Becca give him a glow
They aren't the only monkeys putting on a show

Give it time. Maybe 10 PM?
Then you can do your happy dance for them

Don't let our minds get too set
Since *she* hasn't been eliminated just... yet

Y'see, in-between talks of virgins and "whining'
There's still room for firecrackers combining

After all, as of this time now
He still has that additional field to plow

Hey there Bard, it's kinda hard 
to find kerneled truth in a wind row
But ...there is frost before all is lost 
on the field of this corny dreams show 

Note: January official preview (near end) - Chris voiceover while walking snow-kissed field "in love with 3 women"