Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - FD- LCD - FRC - F1/2/3 - *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion

Lucas15 wrote:I posted this earlier in another thread but I think it may deserve posting here as well. The background is that the data I had found about historical weather in and about Arlington and Lamont the day of the FRC showed it was foggy in the morning, breaking up and becoming cloudy and by about 2:30 PM was clear, staying clear until after sunset. And we also knew that we have a screencap (thanks to Litta123) of Whitney in a limo where we could see sun striking the seat and interior of the limo:



So we can deduce an approximate time when this picture had to have been taken - it was during a time of the day when the sun was out and the sky was clear - but that leaves open the question of where was the limo taking her - more specifically was she going to the FRC location in Lamont or was she being driven away from that location? I set about using some science to figure that out (the liability of being an engineer)!

Now we probably know that the sun isn't always directly overhead; in winter months it's in the southern sky and in the summer it's more overhead (the reverse is true for the southern hemisphere). If the sun is directly overhead at mid day it would be described as having a zenith of 90 degrees. If the sun was right on the horizon (as it could be if you go far enough north) its zenith would be 0 degrees. So I looked up (there are on-line calculators for this) to see what the zenith of the sun would be in Lamont IA on November 22, 2014 at 2:30 PM and found out - it would be 73.2 degrees - basically in the southern sky.

We also know that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and the convention for defining where it is along that path is to define an azimuth angle. Due east would be 90 degrees - right in the middle would be 180 degrees, and due west (right at sunset) would be 270 degrees. The azimuth of the sun in Lamont IA on November 22, 2014 at 2:30 PM was 219.97 degrees. Basically in the western sky. Combining the zenith and the azimuth shows that the sun would be in the southwestern sky at that time of day on that date and in that location.

Once we know where the sun is we could calculate the angle of shadows it would create on objects on the ground - or at least we could get enough of an idea to know what direction the limo was headed. If the limo was headed west to east or north to south the sun would have been shining in the passenger's window of the limo and since Whitney was sitting on that side, her face would have been brightly illuminated. But that's not the case - her face is in shadow and the sun is coming in from the opposite side of the limo, so the limo has to be traveling east to west or south to north. In a post on this issue, Litta123 noticed that the telephone poles you can see through the rear window of the limo are on the drivers side and that fits the location of telephone poles on the road north to Lamont from Dubuque so I think there's a high degree of likelihood that this image of Whitney was taken on the way from Dubuque to Lamont (basically an east to west then south to north drive) and adding Litta123's analysis, was actually heading north towards Lamont from route 20 from Dubuque.

So a little bit of science and a good eye for detail suggest this image was taken when Whitney was on her way to the FRC in Lamont - rather than leaving it and heading back.

sanlee088 wrote:At least they don't have to worry about getting a sunset shot due to the FRC being inside.

clueless wrote:Other than RS (if you can even count him), is there anything solid that points to either girl as F1? I know there are all kinds of interpretations and opinions as to why each girl is F1 but I don't recall anything being posted that is strong evidence for either.  I know that there are great sleuthers on this board, so I'm a little surprised that there is nothing yet.  

lexforlife wrote:

clueless wrote:Other than RS (if you can even count him), is there anything solid that points to either girl as F1? I know there are all kinds of interpretations and opinions as to why each girl is F1 but I don't recall anything being posted that is strong evidence for either.  I know that there are great sleuthers on this board, so I'm a little surprised that there is nothing yet.  

I totally agree.

Lucas15 wrote:I posted this earlier in another thread but I think it may deserve posting here as well. The background is that the data I had found about historical weather in and about Arlington and Lamont the day of the FRC showed it was foggy in the morning, breaking up and becoming cloudy and by about 2:30 PM was clear, staying clear until after sunset. And we also knew that we have a screencap (thanks to Litta123) of Whitney in a limo where we could see sun striking the seat and interior of the limo:



So we can deduce an approximate time when this picture had to have been taken - it was during a time of the day when the sun was out and the sky was clear - but that leaves open the question of where was the limo taking her - more specifically was she going to the FRC location in Lamont or was she being driven away from that location? I set about using some science to figure that out (the liability of being an engineer)!

Now we probably know that the sun isn't always directly overhead; in winter months it's in the southern sky and in the summer it's more overhead (the reverse is true for the southern hemisphere). If the sun is directly overhead at mid day it would be described as having a zenith of 90 degrees. If the sun was right on the horizon (as it could be if you go far enough north) its zenith would be 0 degrees. So I looked up (there are on-line calculators for this) to see what the zenith of the sun would be in Lamont IA on November 22, 2014 at 2:30 PM and found out - it would be 73.2 degrees - basically in the southern sky.

We also know that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and the convention for defining where it is along that path is to define an azimuth angle. Due east would be 90 degrees - right in the middle would be 180 degrees, and due west (right at sunset) would be 270 degrees. The azimuth of the sun in Lamont IA on November 22, 2014 at 2:30 PM was 219.97 degrees. Basically in the western sky. Combining the zenith and the azimuth shows that the sun would be in the southwestern sky at that time of day on that date and in that location.

Once we know where the sun is we could calculate the angle of shadows it would create on objects on the ground - or at least we could get enough of an idea to know what direction the limo was headed. If the limo was headed west to east or north to south the sun would have been shining in the passenger's window of the limo and since Whitney was sitting on that side, her face would have been brightly illuminated. But that's not the case - her face is in shadow and the sun is coming in from the opposite side of the limo, so the limo has to be traveling east to west or south to north. In a post on this issue, Litta123 noticed that the telephone poles you can see through the rear window of the limo are on the drivers side and that fits the location of telephone poles on the road north to Lamont from Dubuque so I think there's a high degree of likelihood that this image of Whitney was taken on the way from Dubuque to Lamont (basically an east to west then south to north drive) and adding Litta123's analysis, was actually heading north towards Lamont from route 20 from Dubuque.

So a little bit of science and a good eye for detail suggest this image was taken when Whitney was on her way to the FRC in Lamont - rather than leaving it and heading back.

nutty1 wrote:Wow!! Impressive. For non science people like me, it's a good thing you included a synopsis!!   So you are thinking this was about 2:30 PM?
Do you happen to know what time the sun set that day in Lamont? Thanks!

grammady wrote:Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I just got home and couldn't keep up at work. I can't wait to see what Becca is wearing.  It looks like it is nice and warm and appropriate for the weather.  Now Whitney's I'm not so sure and her arm looks like its in a sling.  How is she going to wrap her arms around Chris?  It's just my observation.