Couples Therapy - Season 5 - Premier Sept 10 2014 - General Discussion

I like the way RS says that Nikki was blinded by the fairytale...I don't see it so much as a fairytale, but I think she was trying to prove the viewers and everybody wrong. Deep down she knew things were not right....but hey, she won the guy.

1)Nikki IS very competitive, and she was willing to put up will a lot of crap from JPG on the Bach show just so she could "win". She was willing to take "I like u a lot", instead of the real fairytale. She thought she could get him to come around and love her. She ALWAYS got what she wanted. Remember?
Love didn't happen so she tried throwing hissy fits like she did in high school (she said that's how she always got her way).

JPG could not tell her that he loved because he didn't, and he TRIED, IMO. JPG didn't fall in love with anyone, but Nikki was his pragmatic choice, so he thought he would see IF love would happen after the show...

Now in CT:

The more bitchy she got, the more she turned him off, and all he kept saying is "see how Nikki acts? " as IF love was not happening because it was Nikki's fault. Puh-leez.The problem was that they were trying to keep something alive that NEVER WAS. Why keep it alive for people? ...or fame?

Bottom Line: JPG is not ready to settle down. He is the typical Miami guy looking to get famous and have lots of women chasing him.....Why? because he's hot and will make a lot of money off TeeVee.

Ariela wrote:I like the way RS says that Nikki was blinded by the fairytale...I don't see it so much as a fairytale, but I think she was trying to prove the viewers and everybody wrong. Deep down she knew things were not right....but hey, she won the guy.

1)Nikki IS very competitive, and she was willing to put up will a lot of crap from JPG on the Bach show just so she could "win". She was willing to take "I like u a lot", instead of the real fairytale. She thought she could get him to come around and love her. She ALWAYS got what she wanted. Remember?
Love didn't happen so she tried throwing hissy fits like she did in high school (she said that's how she always got her way).

JPG could not tell her that he loved because he didn't, and he TRIED, IMO. JPG didn't fall in love with anyone, but Nikki was his pragmatic choice, so he thought he would see IF love would happen after the show...

Now in CT:

The more bitchy she got, the more she turned him off, and all he kept saying is "see how Nikki acts? " as IF love was not happening because it was Nikki's fault. Puh-leez.The problem was that they were trying to keep something alive that NEVER WAS. Why keep it alive for people? ...or fame?

Bottom Line: JPG is not ready to settle down. He is the typical Miami guy looking to get famous and have lots of women chasing him.....Why? because he's hot and will make a lot of money off TeeVee.

This is just my opinion, most guys who go on the show are going on it for fun. Most who agree to be bachelor are still doing it for fun. I think Jason was an exception to that and Sean was definitely an exception. I think if they actually like someone great, but if not they got to meet lots of people. This was the attitude I sensed from Aaron, Bob, Jesse, Charlie, Brad 1.0 and 2.0, Matt, Jake and Ben. So to me, JPG was not really that different.

I also thought they cast his season very poorly. He is Venezuelan and his heritage is important to him, but it was 80 to 90% Caucasian women who didn't seem to have much understanding of his culture at all. To be honest, I grew to like him and was surprised how his women failed to impress me, because Sean had a great group. So, I really didn't blame JPG for not finding the one. I thought he really liked Nikki, but I think she feel out of love pretty fast after AFTR and just wouldn't let go because she was going to get her ILY and be right.

I also think this show continues to throw around the ILY really fast and easy and for most it is not real love it is more, I am infatuated with you and the situation we are in.

I do think the bachelorettes take the process more seriously and that is why they are working on their third marriage and possibly fourth and I think Jilly would have married Ed in a heartbeat and Meredith would have also married Ian.

Interesting...

Actually Jillian said in a Fox News interview that she did not want an engagement to Ed. Her dad told her it would only be for TV and just accept it and date him. As it turned out, they did last at least 10 months together.

Of course, we can't pooh-pooh Charlie or "Fish-boy" Byron, who lasted four or five years with their F1 ladies, either.

Of course JPG went on the show for fun, and to make money, become a reality star. It's easy money. IF he fell in love, fine. Nothing wrong with that. I don't blame him. That would have been my way of thinking.

I actually cannot believe that ANYONE goes on the Bach to find love and seriously get married, unless they are desperate.
JPG will not be husband material for many years. He still wants to have fun, and he's working on his second career (TeeVee).

From what I've been reading, JPG is not in the position to get married (financially), and he's not ready. If a girl wants to hang out with him and earn her own keep, fine. He's willing to play the couple game, but marriage is serious to him. He's not feeling that special something with Nikki, and his finances are not in order to take care of a family.

Many here addressed that JPG was willing to move to LA with Nikki, but not to KC. Duh, it's clear as day to me that he wants to became a star* in LA, not live a Midwestern married life.

Just watched the most recent episode of CT- I'm amazed that they continued to give it a go after that whole experience. I know they were together at the "Give Kids the World" event after filming it and they took the trip together to Bali. But IIRC, Nikki did a whole lot less flying all over to spend time with JP otherwise. I wonder if the article about Andi and Josh not wanting exes at the wedding, and Josh's anti-juan comments contributed at all to Nikki's decision to split. Or if she 
anticipated this week's episode to be enough explanation for her 
decision.  It seemed like every attempt she made to be understood, backfired on her. Maybe she just took Evel Dick's advice to heart--it really shouldn't have been so hard for it to be fun.  I think JP understands a lot more than he lets on.

JBF wrote:I haven't visited his site in ages, but wasn't it also reported here that HE also thought they might "make it" as a couple despite how weird that finale and After the Final Rose show was? No doubt, his scoring another successful seasonal S-P-O-I-L-E-R for the masses allowed for a "rosier" view of the couple back THEN if not NOW.

As I recall RS always said that Nikki was the biggest b!tch in the house that season and that JPG was never going to marry her, that he didn't love her and never would. I hate to say it but IMHO he was right all along.

Ariela wrote:Many here addressed that JPG was willing to move to LA with Nikki, but not to KC. Duh, it's clear as day to me that he wants to became a star* in LA, not live a Midwestern married life.

^^^^ LA was always about opportunities in the entertainment business, not making a life with Nikki.

livlafluv1 wrote:I wonder if the article about Andi and Josh not wanting exes at the wedding, and Josh's anti-juan comments contributed at all to Nikki's decision to split. Or if she anticipated this week's episode to be enough explanation for her decision.

I don't think that any comment made by Andi or Josh about "exes" nor for that matter any comment made by Josh about JPG had anything whatsoever to do with Nikki's decision to spilt but rather the opposite - her decision to split may have had something to do with those comments. I think people close to Nikki knew that Nikki had ended it some time before we (as the general public) knew that she had and those comments by Andi and Josh were because they knew - when they made them - that it was over and they were standing up for Nikki.

It's my opinion that there was a defining moment during the filming of CT when Nikki actually decided to split. In the beginning of filming she said what she'd said before - that she knew JPG loved her even though he'd never said it because he showed it, and she was always thinking "this will be the day that he says it".

I think JPG did show Nikki physical affection but that's not at all the same as love. He treated Nikki the same way he treated Sharleen (and probably a lot of other women in his past) - when they would start asking questions that probed his level of commitment to a relationship he'd start getting affectionate and make out with them which avoided him having to address the fact that he wasn't about to make a commitment.

When the couples met with the "human lie detector" she kept asking JPG "Do you love Nikki?" and every time JPG tried to dance around that issue and not answer the question she'd ask the question again until finally JPG said "No" - he didn't love Nikki. IMHO at that moment Nikki realized that JPG really didn't love her and tomorrow wasn't going to be the day he'd say he did - that day was never going to come. On Episode 8 Nikki was asking a different question - not for him to say he loved her but to just tell her he didn't love her. I think once Nikki knew that ILY was never going to be said was when she decided to split - she just didn't split then, she waited a bit. I suspect Nikki actually ended it on the trip to Bali because after that trip they were noticeably distant from each other on SM and times when it might have been logical for them to have met there wasn't evidence that they actually did meet.

Thank you Lucas enjoyed reading your post.... I also thought at the time of the infamous quote by Andi/Josh that JPa/Nikki were over and some ever said that an once again always a joy to read what you post..

Lucas15, I agree that it actually ended a while ago.(again IMO) not only have they not appeared to meet, at least 5 weeks ago one of her friends announced on IG that they were going to be roommates starting in November. In my head I was speculating the josh/andi comments precipitated another argument between them and she finally had enough of "faking it" if you will.

In any case, she has announced on twitter this morning that she's off to the airport for something special tonight.

CT worked, just not in the way some expected it to.

livlafluv1 wrote:CT worked, just not in the way some expected it to.

I always wondered just what result the producers of CT "wanted" as an ending. I think we know that for the bachelor franchise they want a ring on a finger and twirl at the end - even if it's fake with no intention to end up at the altar - but does CT want a successful couple? Or would they be as happy to see a couple resolve difficulties by deciding to break up?

I felt Episode 8 was strange because we heard Nikki express that her relationship was not making her happy and all she wanted was someone who wanted her in their life. And Dr. Jenn commented that once Nikki stopped trying to make JPG love her she was starting to question if he was the right guy for her. That's sort of "break-up talk" - but the next thing we see is Nikki apologizing to JPG and them snuggling on the couch; it just didn't make any sense to me - it was a story without a logical ending and I kept waiting for the final chapter.

I also think that CT worked for Nikki & JPG. I think Nikki was looking for something that JPG was not able to give her and she was too afraid of losing him to ask the really tough questions for fear the answers she'd get would be ones she didn't really want to hear. And JPG liked Nikki and enjoyed hanging out with her but never saw "forever" and was equally afraid to say how he felt for fear she'd walk (which she did so he was right about that). CT forced them both to come out of the denial they were caught up in.

Lucas15 wrote:

livlafluv1 wrote:CT worked, just not in the way some expected it to.

I always wondered just what result the producers of CT "wanted" as an ending. I think we know that for the bachelor franschise they want a ring on a finger and twirl at the end - even if it's fake with no intention to end up at the altar - but does CT want a successful couple? Or would they be as happy to see a couple resolve difficulties by deciding to break up?

I felt Episode 8 was strange because we heard Nikki express that her relationship was not making her happy and all she wanted was someone who wanted her in their life. And Dr. Jenn commented that once Nikki stopped trying to make JPG love her she was starting to question if he was the right guy for her. That's sort of "break-up talk" - but the next thing we see is Nikki apologizing to JPG and them snuggling on the couch; it just didn't make any sense to me - it was a story without a logical ending and I kept waiting for the final chapter.

I also think that CT worked for Nikki & JPG. I think Nikki was looking for something that JPG was not able to give her and she was too afraid of losing him to ask the really tough questions for fear the answers she'd get would be ones she didn't really want to hear. And JPG liked Nikki and enjoyed hanging out with her but never saw "forever" and was equally afraid to say how he felt for fear she'd walk (which she did so he was right about that). CT forced them both to come out of the denial they were caught up in.

I think there was a clue towards the beginning of CT that Dr. Jenn did not see a future for the relationship. There was a clip where she said something akin to "it is important to stay open and vulnerable whether or not JPG turns out to be the one for you". (Not a direct quote at all) When a therapist says something like that, it is a clue to me that they see the future more clearly and just let that slip out inadvertently (even though that concept is a truism). It is subtle but can spark a new idea in the listener.

As always, Lucas, your posts are most thoughtful and enjoyable reading!

I just watched this week's episode and despite Nikki's flaws, I can't help siding with her a bit. I don't think JPG is a horrible person or anything, I just don't think he's relationship material. He might be for someone he's madly in love with, if he's capable of falling in love that is, but that person isn't Nikki. From what I've seen of his interactions, he just seems impossible to talk to. Like really talk to, about serious matters. He's dismissive and starts talking over you. As much as I think Nikki should've spoken her mind to him since the beginning, I can also see how that might've been difficult. He prefers to keep things light and superficial, and while that might make him fun company, it certainly makes it difficult to have a "cerebral connection" as Sharleen put it. It's pretty hard to have a romantic relationship without one, unless you're kind of dim. You can tell how Nikki's been stuck alone with her feeling and doubts, building up resentment. Now, not only the public but also all these people they've been living with for weeks are calling BS on JPG's feelings, so it's pretty hard to stay in denial.

I don't know if JPG was hurt because he feels strongly about Nikki or because he feels strongly about being questioned. Or if he even was hurt. I think he saw that Nikki was heading towards dumping him on TV, so he panicked and started playing the victim. He knows Nikki cares for him, so pulling at her heartstrings was the obvious thing to do. I was pretty put off by Dr. Jenn jumping to his defence again. What feelings does Nikki need to acknowledge exactly? He does NOT love her and she just needs him to stop dancing around the issue. His "love" is NOT real, even if he did like her a lot. I can see how it would be hurtful to be called fake (which she didn't even do), but she was just calling a spade a spade. She didn't sign up for a lifetime of pseudo-love, so what exactly was she supposed to do? At least we've seen her try to clear things up and build an understanding, but he's making it impossible by giving her nothing except excuses. At least she's trying to crack the surface, while he's happy just skating along. I find him infuriating too and I'm just a viewer. I'm so glad she wisened up and dumped him!

Lucas15 wrote:

livlafluv1 wrote:CT worked, just not in the way some expected it to.

I always wondered just what result the producers of CT "wanted" as an ending. I think we know that for the bachelor franschise they want a ring on a finger and twirl at the end - even if it's fake with no intention to end up at the altar - but does CT want a successful couple? Or would they be as happy to see a couple resolve difficulties by deciding to break up?

I felt Episode 8 was strange because we heard Nikki express that her relationship was not making her happy and all she wanted was someone who wanted her in their life. And Dr. Jenn commented that once Nikki stopped trying to make JPG love her she was starting to question if he was the right guy for her. That's sort of "break-up talk" - but the next thing we see is Nikki apologizing to JPG and them snuggling on the couch; it just didn't make any sense to me - it was a story without a logical ending and I kept waiting for the final chapter.

I also think that CT worked for Nikki & JPG. I think Nikki was looking for something that JPG was not able to give her and she was too afraid of losing him to ask the really tough questions for fear the answers she'd get would be ones she didn't really want to hear. And JPG liked Nikki and enjoyed hanging out with her but never saw "forever" and was equally afraid to say how he felt for fear she'd walk (which she did so he was right about that). CT forced them both to come out of the denial they were caught up in.

Agreed that it worked for Nikki, but NOT for Juan Pablo. With Nikki at his side, he's relevant ...

Granted, like that loser Jef, he can still use the Bachelor show card to get laid by over zealous fans, and appears by Nikki's IG recent comment, he's been doing that, but, IMO, his ability to continue to parley his being The Bachelor into a moneymaking career, the guy's toast.