Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - #8

IrishGal wrote:Talking about sexuality honestly and kissing and telling when it will obviously cause humiliation are two different things in my book.

Exactly this. However, no worries at all, tptb are going to get him and his little friend (Kait) too. Muhahah. Double double toil and trouble.

IrishGal wrote:Talking about sexuality honestly and kissing and telling when it will obviously cause humiliation are two different things in my book.

If you choose to sleep with a guy 2 days before you are going to get engaged and told the other not to worry and led him on. Then in my book she deserved the humiliation she received. Like I have stated before if she would of shown one ounce of empathy towards him I doubt anything would of been said. Plus the liking of some of the nastiest SM I have ever seen I do not blame him one bit.

Not to bring Andi into this, but this discussion ties into this season because of our feelings about Nick. Andi herself said, "I'm a grown woman. I can do what I want." It should not be seen as humiliating at all.  Nick did not intend to humiliate her.  He wanted a truthful answer.  One might say that she humiliated him first anyway leading him to believe that she was going to chose him.

We will fall on different sides of the "Nick coin" depending on our feelings of last season of course. But I think that we can all agree that in the past every contestant/lead has probably made mistakes and wishes they could do things a little differently in hindsight. But that is what makes it hindsight. I see both parties from last season (A and N) making mistakes, but I side with Nick because I like and identify with his personality more so. I see things from his perspective more clearly. Still do. Probably always will.

Besides, this is a new story.  Kaitlyn's story.  She is open about sexuality and talking about it.  So is Nick.  Game on.

LOL I doubt that Andi-Nick AFTR moment will ever be seen differently if those who are watching that moment see it through the lens that tptb created for Nick's edit "villain"-- we now have evidence directly from Dylan how producers manipulated him and the other guys to give sound bites about Nick (dangling the bachelor carrot in front of them)... we also know producers are in their faces always telling them what to discuss...

that exactly fits in with how UNreal portrays producer manipulation + edit/typecasting and how participants on the show have confirmed to possessionista blogger to be the way things go... Nick was obviously labeled the villain the image supported by the sound track and what the guys were encouraged to say.
The power of editing is very obvious from comparing the michelle money during brad 2.0 to the michelle on bp & bip -- edit is a VERY tricky thing

...even beyond the edit Nick has explained he messed up by blurting out what he did on that couch at aftr as a reaction to having all his emotions build up to that moment which was the first time he was allowed to speak to Andi --- then she went on completely denying having ANY romantic feelings for him in cold and unempathetic manner... he said what he said because he could not comprehend her demeanor in context of her behavior. he made it very clear he had no intention to cause humiliation.

whatever the case -- it's all good -- people will continue to see nick a certain way but the people involved (brian, dylan, CS, marcus, Andi, Nick...) have ALL moved on now making fun of the situation so I think I'll take the back seat in explaining that situation + Nick's edit last season.

You've "reopened" this discussion about the previous season of Bette10, so I'm going to chip in, since I have a few things to get off my chest.

It's funny how we as people react to others' relationships/connections, based on our experiences and our personal mental/emotional state.

For starters, I saw Nick as an impeccable suitor. From the first moment till the FRC Nick never disrespected Andi, he made her feel like one in a million, like she is special, like she is the Great one he was waiting for, he showed her that she was wanted, desired, he talked to her, he listened to her and even in his salty moments, he accepted his fault, claimed his mistakes, discussed with her and valued her opinion and apologized, demonstrating several times how much her point of view mattered, challenged him in making him a better person.

I would assume most women desire that kind of a "boyfriend".

So to me in that season was mostly "inconceivable" a fact, that the one example of how to woo a woman and one guy who clearly showed his intentions, with no game (between him and the woman in question) and pretense, just a simple desire, passion, love and devotion for The Bette, was considered and labeled a "creep" (and other more "powerful words").

I may take in consideration that he had been viewed as not genuine, a liar, a strategist and a non-fair player ... then I understand the perception why someone wouldn't want that kind of a boyfriend...

but then if I want to give the same doubt to everyone in the house... I would loved to see the genuine sides, the honest opinions, no strategy plans and fair game by other guys present too.

But in hindsight ... that's pretty hard for me to see, knowing, that:
- mr. Farmer/"Perfect Catch" was in the game for the next Bachelor (and he knew it, so he had no "game" to court/woo the woman and he was never close to real "heartbreak" as F3),
- mr. Sad-Story was never into The Bette from the start (he finally admitted it later on radio),
- mr. In-Love knew he had no chance with her and only strengthened the bond with the "future F1" (after the bond between F1 and F2 was broken by the intervention of TPTB who "preached" to the boys that they aren't there for the bromance and since mr. In-Love knew who F1 would be, so the "negativity" was shifted on the known F2),
- mr. Shy-Guy, the one and only coach, who was too scared to "go for a kiss when the moment presented itself", whose real "irk" with Nick wasn't "the game", but was his own "lack of it".

So yeah, to me Nick still stands for the "boyfriend I wouldn't mind to have". And I'm not talking about the personality, because that is an individual preference and he is not my match, but I really can't read one solid reason why I would have to dislike Nick's approach on "the game show of elimination".

Another thing that I would like to respond ... about ATFR (game changer).
Nick was his respectful self on the day of FRC (break-up) ... when all he stated to the girl who broke up with him ..."I wish you wouldn't take it so far" ... To the Bette that meant a slap in the face and she got defensive, in her usual offensive mode that lasted through the ATFR...

Nick at that point made a real "jab" at her ... consciously or not, but most probably it can be said that it was deliberately. I make no excuses for him, it was disrespectful, it wasn't nice, it was hurtful (but not because there would be any implication of shame - since nobody deserves a humiliation) ... but boy, I do remember my break-ups, when I was being dumped, and I wished I would say something back, to let them feel how much they hurt me, but I was "the polite" one, the nice ex, who wanted to put the brave face on and then hurt by my self in silence... so I don't see any harm, if the boy wanted to make her feel the way she made him feel.

Yeah, it doesn't show maturity, it shouldn't be done on the national TV ... but you know what I really liked in that moment? ... that he stayed true to himself, he didn't pretend to be someone else so that his "TV-character" would come out of it better, since he didn't gain the stellar reputation, he didn't fake politeness and compassionate exit to save his own face (like many would do before/after him) ... he was real and genuine.

Love everything your wrote HGL. :Nod:   You are spot on! 

Thanks AAL, I like reading yours and mostly agreeing with (or at least you persuade me to think about other possibilities).

It's interesting how everyone was discussing about Kaitlyn's lack of respect and sensitivity (for the rest of the bachelors' feelings) towards her suitors with the whole pre-FS sex "affair" ... but last year nobody cared for Nick's feelings and his hurt, he just had to deal with it on his own (or so was said), he was supposed to be the man who should be grateful for the time he got on-screen and was told to grow a pair without complaining, since at least he got a "bonus" and he knew the premise of the show, so after the lost he shouldn't had asked for any explanation, because he was a willing participant. Gender equality at its finest.

happygolucky wrote:Thanks AAL, I like reading yours and mostly agreeing with (or at least you persuade me to think about other possibilities).

It's interesting how everyone was discussing about Kaitlyn's lack of respect and sensitivity (for the rest of the bachelors' feelings) towards her suitors with the whole pre-FS sex "affair" ... but last year nobody cared for Nick's feelings and his hurt, he just had to deal with it on his own (or so was said), he was supposed to be the man who should be grateful for the time he got on-screen and was told to grow a pair without complaining, since at least he got a "bonus" and he knew the premise of the show, so after the lost he shouldn't had asked for any explanation, because he was a willing participant. Gender equality at its finest.

Oh, man. This is such a good point. It's okay to feel betrayed and hurt, but you just can't voice it EVER if you are a man?

That's such a great post happy!

great post happyGL -- double standards galore!

Millsy will have to compete with me as Kristen Baldwin's biggest fan.    Kristen's not the only journalist or blogger who feels this way about his return and I'm glad they're speaking up!  :Nod:

Robert Mills retweeted
https://twitter.com/KristenGBaldwin/status/606102145797079040
Kristen Baldwin ‏@KristenGBaldwin
Watch @kaitlynbristowe tell the guys about Nick the d*** in this @BacheloretteABC preview: http://yhoo.it/1M4Ij8D

happygolucky wrote:Thanks AAL, I like reading yours and mostly agreeing with (or at least you persuade me to think about other possibilities).

It's interesting how everyone was discussing about Kaitlyn's lack of respect and sensitivity (for the rest of the bachelors' feelings) towards her suitors with the whole pre-FS sex "affair" ... but last year nobody cared for Nick's feelings and his hurt, he just had to deal with it on his own (or so was said), he was supposed to be the man who should be grateful for the time he got on-screen and was told to grow a pair without complaining, since at least he got a "bonus" and he knew the premise of the show, so after the lost he shouldn't had asked for any explanation, because he was a willing participant. Gender equality at its finest.

I don't think it's the same thing though. My problem is that when you do it that early it feels unfair to the other relationships you're supposed to be trying to build. If I were the other contestants on the show it would feel as if that relationship had progressed so far that I didn't even have a shot so I might as well not be there. Like if there was a bach/b'ette that went to the fantasy suite with one contestant and not the other i think everyone would feel as if the one who went to the FS would clearly win, at least i would. Nick and Kaitlyn are not in the same situation as last season, it's apples and oranges. More accurate comparison would be ben flajnik, when he had his thing with Courtney I felt it was unfair to the other women and when JP had his thing with Clare I felt it was unfair to the other women now Kaitlyn's done it with Nick i think it's unfair to the other men. Gender equality for me