Re: Andi Dorfman and Josh Murray Bachelorette 10 - Media - Twitter - General Discussion Thread #2

[luvlady345]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this.  There is absolutely zero comparison between the edit that Nick got and the edit that Ian or Ed got.  Nick was given a derogatory nickname by producers, and shown to be the troublemaker in the house, hated by the guys (whether it was at all true or not isn't the point, that's what the editors wanted us to believe).  Neither Ian not Ed were unpopular in the house at all, or talked badly about by the guys on camera.  People who were presented via the editing as villains on this franchise are Nick, Vienna, Courtney, Tierra, Bentley, Trish, Kirsten, Kaylon, Wes (he was the villain that season, NOT Ed), and others that I can't remember right now, and the only ones who were F1 were women.  

IC, everyone you list except for Trish is post the change in format with DeAnna and Jason.  I would say that Ian's edit was just as bad as Trish's.  Ian was unable to commit, they even had voice overs of Meredith when she gave him the last rose one rose ceremony saying that she was teaching him a lesson.  TPTB were much tamer in their raunchy factor back then and it wasn't the incestuous family it has become.  Ian was very much the bad boy who was going to break Meredith's heart and would not propose and his brother was evil.  Matthew, who I loved too BTW, was the sweet kind man who would protect Meredith's heart and take care of her.  

I think TPTB have gotten much more creative in their editing tricks and how far they are willing to go.  Just like all reality tv.  The first seasons of the Real World were about actual people not just famewhores looking for camera time.  Now it is unwatchable in my opinion.  As seasons went on RW had to get raunchier to keep viewers, they same has happened with TPTB and the bachelor/bachelorette.  Would he propose used to be a mystery. Except for JPG, it really isn't anymore.

BTW, I always thought Trish was an actress looking to gain fame and Jesse was the stupidest bachelor ever.  When he manages to be slightly intelligent about college football it always freaks me out.  I wonder where was this guy on the bachelor, because I never saw a spark of intelligence from him on the bachelor.

Kirsten was from Firestone's season.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because Ian was not the least bit a villain to me, and I measure a villain on this show much more in relation to the way the others in the house saw them than from their interaction with the lead.  With the exception of Bentley, every other name on my list was shown to be disliked and alienated by the rest of the contestants.  Ian and Ed were not.

And even if we attribute it all to the change in editing from Deanna's season on, it still proves my point that for NOW, they will not give the male F1s a bad edit, which means that we should use that info as a serious clue that people presented like Nick in the future aren't going to be the F1.  

Also want to add that there's a difference between a negative edit and being the season "villain".  F1s may get a negative edit, but they have never made the male F1 the season villain.  That's a fact.

   

[Relalou]

And to me, having in control, take no prisoners Andi chose the villain would have been possible. Andi was portrayed as the lead who was going to do what she wanted.  

Again, no desire to start a debate, Josh is so the better choice for Andi.  Just as she was portrayed from the WTA for JPG on, she would have been the bachelorette to chose who she wanted no matter what.

Well I hope every bach/ette ends up choosing who they want no matter what. After all, it is their lives that are impacted and their futures that they are trying to forge with the right person for them. Whether that turns out to be the case, or whether the viewers like their choice, or whether TPTB would have preferred a different ending, are really all of no real significance to the lead IF they truly want to find their life partner. I think you are right stuckinsc: Andi chose the right guy for her

[Sable]

The article up thread about the ratings differences between the Bachelor and Bachelorette franchises is very interesting and IMO shows that you can't compare outcomes of one to the other absolutely because of the intrinsic behavioral differences.  It's also why there has still never been a male F1 with the villain edit, and never will be IMO. It's why I knew for sure that Nick wasn't F1.

Not true imo. I'd put Ian & Ed at having "villain" edits. Ian for sure was because he & Meredith had crazy chemistry and they hid it as much as possible by slicing & dicing and commercials calling Ian a vagabond and making his brother seem creepy (he wasn't). With Ed they had the cringe worthy FS episode and I'm sure other things that I'm not remembering right now. That scene alone could have been edited far differently if they'd wanted to. Struck me as throwing Ed under the bus & Jillian ditto for choosing him.  

Speaking of SM follows. I'm only one person but I dropped Andi & Josh after the finale. I only followed Josh because he was the potential f1 but did like Andi earlier in the season. I have a feeling I'm not the only one who dropped her (especially). I don't have a clue if they bought followers nor do I really care.    

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this.  There is absolutely zero comparison between the edit that Nick got and the edit that Ian or Ed got.  Nick was given a derogatory nickname by producers, and shown to be the troublemaker in the house, hated by the guys (whether it was at all true or not isn't the point, that's what the editors wanted us to believe).  Neither Ian not Ed were unpopular in the house at all, or talked badly about by the guys on camera.  People who were presented via the editing as villains on this franchise are Nick, Vienna, Courtney, Tierra, Bentley, Trish, Kirsten, Kaylon, Wes (he was the villain that season, NOT Ed), and others that I can't remember right now, and the only ones who were F1 were women.  

What derogatory nickname did the producers give Nick? I have never heard of that. Also, besides Nick's overconfidence, how was he a troublemaker? I agree that the editors wanted Nick to be the "villain" this season because there was relatively little drama between the guys. IMO, I think Nick made a pretty pathetic villain compared to the likes of villains like Courtney, Kalon and Bentley, but I think he was the best that the producers were able to come up with. I think that Nick is friendly with most of the guys post show besides Josh, Cody and Marcus. To me a true villain is someone who is very disliked by the men/women from their season even after it airs (like Courtney and Kalon).

[Lucas15]

I have a question. I know that followers on IG can be bought, but can you buy Likes and comments? Right now, Andi and Josh have a higher Likes/Followers ratio than Sean and Cat (which should be expected, they are the new couple). So if Sean and Cat didn't buy followers, this would suggest that neither did Andi and Josh.

I only started to follow both Andi and Josh on IG during the finale. I liked them before, but wanted to see the pictures of the happy couple.

That's what I said also, if you go by twitter buy or fake followers the only thing they do is sit on your account for numbers because they are made up accounts, sorta like bots....

The old "trick" of using bots to access a Twitter account and boost the numbers was what Twitter addressed in the March 2014 code rewrite - in order to curtail fake followers they blocked the access to an account that the bots were using.

After the work I did on a number of Twitter accounts (which I posted upthread in this topic) I am quite certain that fake followers are either not being used by anybody or are being used equally by everybody.

Instagram is a different story and I have not been able to find any auditing tool that can verify the validity of followers on IG. On IG you can buy fake followers but that just increases the number of followers without making changes to likes and comments so in this you're right - a high likes to followers ratio would mean the account has not bought fake followers because that would make for a lower ratio not a higher one.

You can also buy "real followers" - followers who will go out and follow you and post comments and give likes but in many cases they don't stick around unless you follow them back, so one way to tell if this has been done is to look for someone with a large number of followers who is also following a large number of people especially if most of those people don't have an obvious connection or seem to be just random people. Andi has 762,087 followers right now and she's only following 103 people, many of whom are family or Bachelor Nation accounts and that just doesn't fit a pattern of purchased followers.

[umngirl]

^You can buy likes on Instagram too, not just followers. Or more accurately, followers who will then like your pictures always.

[mindless]

What derogatory nickname did the producers give Nick?  I have never heard of that.  Also, besides Nick's overconfidence, how was he a troublemaker?  I agree that the editors wanted Nick to be the "villain" this season because there was relatively little drama between the guys.  IMO, I think Nick made a pretty pathetic villain compared to the likes of villains like Courtney, Kalon and Bentley, but I think he was the best that the producers were able to come up with.  I think that Nick is friendly with most of the guys post show besides Josh, Cody and Marcus.  To me a true villain is someone who is very disliked by the men/women from their season even after it airs (like Courtney and Kalon).

I agree. I'm usually right there along with most people hating on the "villain" each season, but this time I was just left scratching my head by the attempts to make Nick one. And I had no attachment to him by that point, I just thought he'd done nothing wrong. I actually ended up liking him more because he seemed so uninterested in entertaining the other guys when they tried to attack him. But even that non-drama lasted only a couple of episodes and after that there was nothing villainy about Nick. Instead they just showed how genuine he was. So if people really fell for the edit then it speaks more of their intrinsic need to hate on someone each season than it does about Nick. Nicest villain ever.

I actually think Andrew was shown as more of a villain, but he didn't last long and barely had time with Andi, so they couldn't really do much with him, much to their chagrin I'm sure.

[luvlady345]

I have a question. I know that followers on IG can be bought, but can you buy Likes and comments? Right now, Andi and Josh have a higher Likes/Followers ratio than Sean and Cat (which should be expected, they are the new couple). So if Sean and Cat didn't buy followers, this would suggest that neither did Andi and Josh.

I only started to follow both Andi and Josh on IG during the finale. I liked them before, but wanted to see the pictures of the happy couple.

That's what I said also, if you go by twitter buy or fake followers the only thing they do is sit on your account for numbers because they are made up accounts, sorta like bots....

The old "trick" of using bots to access a Twitter account and boost the numbers was what Twitter addressed in the March 2014 code rewrite - in order to curtail fake followers they blocked the access to an account that the bots were using.

After the work I did on a number of Twitter accounts (which I posted upthread in this topic) I am quite certain that fake followers are either not being used by anybody or are being used equally by everybody.

Instagram is a different story and I have not been able to find any auditing tool that can verify the validity of followers on IG. On IG you can buy fake followers but that just increases the number of followers without making changes to likes and comments so in this you're right - a high likes to followers ratio would mean the account has not bought fake followers because that would make for a lower ratio not a higher one.

You can also buy "real followers" - followers who will go out and follow you and post comments and give likes but in many cases they don't stick around unless you follow them back, so one way to tell if this has been done is to look for someone with a large number of followers who is also following a large number of people especially if most of those people don't have an obvious connection or seem to be just random people. Andi has 762,087 followers right now and she's only following 103 people, many of whom are family or Bachelor Nation accounts and that just doesn't fit a pattern of purchased followers.

Thanks Lucas, I dunno if Andi was going to buy followers it seems like she would at least try to benefit and sell things and just not pictures of her and Josh plus Sabel but that's just me....

[ironcat]

The producers may not have succeeded with some people in portraying "Tricky Nicky" (nickname) as the villain, but the above posts all just confirmed that they tried, right? And plenty of viewers DID buy it. Ok, I'm done trying to prove what to me is an obvious point and isn't a dig at Nick but at the producers IMO. Peace all.

[Lucas15]

The producers may not have succeeded with some people in portraying "Tricky Nicky" (nickname) as the villain, but the above posts all just confirmed that they tried, right?  And plenty of viewers DID buy it.  Ok, I'm done trying to prove what to me is an obvious point and isn't a dig at Nick but at the producers IMO.  Peace all.

A valient effort IC nonetheless IC. Of course they tried to paint Nick as the villain. There may have been seasons where they had more material to work with and did a better job of it but they have to work with what they got. Had Nick been edited exactly the same way but was always alluding to a girlfriend back home (I'm thinking of Wes here) then IMHO the same edit would have about everyone here hating on him for playing the lead. I guess not everyone sees all the ways a guy can play a woman though.

[mindless]

Well my point is that he didn't actually do anything bad or indefensible, so they could've just been building a storyline like "Is he really in it for love? Does he have a reason to be confident or is it unfounded?", and if Andi had picked him and they'd lived happily ever after, the answer would've been yes. They were airing a lot of Andi's doubts about Josh as well, so it's not like they just praise the F1 and that's it. They usually try to create some suspense.

Anyway, I like Andi's latest tweet. Seems she's exhibiting some self-awareness for a change. I hope she succeeds in living by those sentiments.

[Lucas15]

Well my point is that he didn't actually do anything bad or indefensible, so they could've just been building a storyline like "Is he really in it for love? Does he have a reason to be confident or is it unfounded?", and if Andi had picked him and they'd lived happily ever after, the answer would've been yes. They were airing a lot of Andi's doubts about Josh as well, so it's not like they just praise the F1 and that's it. They usually try to create some suspense.

Anyway, I like Andi's latest tweet. Seems she's exhibiting some self-awareness for a change. I hope she succeeds in living by those sentiments.  

In 2010 ABC ran this quote in a news piece about the show:

"We need our fair share of villains every season," Fleiss said. "And now we're very careful in our casting...to develop characters that the audience is going to root for and root against."

So I think we can expect every season to see the show do exactly this. Sometimes I think they misjudge things and the lines as seen by the viewers aren't as clear cut as the editors and producers expected. One problem is that they will always try to create suspense to the very end over who the lead pick which means there has to be two plausible choices.

This season there was a problem in that one of the plausible choices was one they cast as a villain. I think part of the cause of this was they cast the show with one plan and Andi threw them a curve. If you look at the final 4 guys you had 3 that were pretty even keeled and gentlemen and one who just had the kind of personality that can rub other guys the wrong way. I don't think they expected that Andi would keep Nick to F2 and they were thinking they would have a clear villain and two other plausible choices. Of course they knew she had kept Nick to F2 before they started editing and I think they had to take a little bit of the edge off Nick to make him a plausible / likeable choice through to the FRC and the lack of a really evil villain was just confusing to viewers.

[albean99]

I don't think Nick was always their villain of the season and if Andi had picked him it would likely have been someone else, maybe Josh. A lot of the stuff they used was his PIs and would have been easy to leave out. In any case it doesn't really matter since this is Andi & Josh's discussion thread and it's turned into a Nick discussion.

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