Re: Andi Dorfman and Josh Murray Bachelorette 10 - Media - Twitter - General Discussion Thread #2

[Sable]

Ash2214 wrote:
I guess for me, your points would ring more true if I thought Andi did anything awful at the ATFR because in my opinion, she handled it just fine. It was someone else who didn't.

For someone who is a selfish, arrogant jerk she handled it the way she sees fit, but if you are a humane, compassionate, humble  individual its not the way to handle Eric, Juan Pablo and Nick.  The proof is in the pudding,  if she handled it "right"  TBTP  would not have been goading Nick to reveal that she had sex with him.


Just to be sure maybe we should  ask the mother of Nick and the mother of Josh if she really handled it well.  Her stuck up face alone showed so much of her attitude.   She handled everything wrong.  Because she has the wrong attitude about other people, about her misplaced entitlement and about her "I have used you.. now go away" general aura during Juan Pabs and her season...

although I give her credit for not losing it in the AFTR.. now that is having a thick skin.

Per the bolded...

Although I do not personally care for Andi, I have to give her some credit for how she handled everything after Nick asked her that question. I recall reading an article a day or so after ATFR, and Andi said for a split second she thought of just walking off the stage after Nick asked her that question. Does anyone else recall that or was I just dreaming that I read that? I actually do think after that infamous question was asked, Andi finally gave Nick some answers. Those answers coupled with Andi's demeanor toward Nick at ATFR finally gave Nick all the closure he needed, imo.

[umngirl]

IMO, I don't think all of Andi's (and Josh's by associate) followers on IG came about organically. I think they didn't get them the old-fashioned way.  :hidingchair 

[luvlady345]

IMO, I don't think all of Andi's (and Josh's by associate) followers on IG came about organically. I think they didn't get them the old-fashioned way.  :hidingchair 

Really why? If they were buying them most people would buy them on twitter, which is very common....

[umngirl]

IMO, I don't think all of Andi's (and Josh's by associate) followers on IG came about organically. I think they didn't get them the old-fashioned way.  :hidingchair 

Really why?  If they were buying them most people would buy them on twitter, which is very common....  

Actually, buying them on Instagram is very, very popular. I know of several big fashion bloggers for example who have done that in order to appear more popular to brands for advertising.

I just look at the jump Andi's took and it doesn't appear to be natural. She had quite a following being the lead already, and then they just jumped up way too fast for me to believe it simply happened naturally.

[stuckinsc]

Well if that's the case none of the  female leads will be getting a wedding because  they are never as high as the male leads, like I said earlier in a post really who is surprised about the ratings? Women are other  women worst enemy. The worst male lead rating are better than the best female ... So really no surprise here.

I think a lot has to do with the time of the year---TB is shown during the winter season and now football is over. More people snuggle up in their warm nests watching tv. 'Ette is on during the summer when people are going on vacation and more involved outside enjoying the season and longer days.
I have always enjoyed TB more than 'Ette. That's just me. I know that can go either way with fans.
I think (just my own opinion) women can be very supportive of each other and that this issue has little to do with ratings. Again, my opinion.  I have been lucky enough to share in many women's support groups and the love and friendship women can share is extraordinary.   

So this women not supporting women thing has been bugging me for a while.

I have posted before, that I don't think you have to be a b**** or a ball buster to be a strong woman. I stand by that. Some of the women of history that I admired most were a little bit of many things for many reasons.

I am a graduate of University of Texas and Lady Bird Johnson is one of those we idolize most. She was truly a strong woman and no pushover, but always a lady. All the beautiful wildflowers you see on our highways originated with her. She was all lady and still a forced to be reckoned with.

Texas also brought another favorite lady of mine, Ann Richards, she was more your traditional ball buster, but man when she spoke she light the place up. She really cared for her state and her people and had an amazing sense of humor to boot. She is most famous for her statement about Daddy George Bush, where she said "Poor George, he was born with a silver foot in his mouth". In the gracious way that he had she sent her a pin of a silver cowboy boot and Ann wore it often. When asked she said that when a gentlemen gives you jewelry you wear it and appreciate it. I really loved her and was so proud when Texas elected her governor. She and George Bush had a respect for one another, but the one who really hated her was Barbara Bush. Interesting stuff. One of my good friends in Texas worked for her when she was governor.

These two amazing Texas women were great leaders who handled pressure gracefully, though very differently.

So you can see some of the women I consider role models.

As for women being the biggest those who are not fans of other women, I don't find it true, but I will say that the actions of other women do affect how we are all perceived. When a women use the victim card to much or demands equal treatment and doesn't live up to the job it makes the rest of us look bad.

My favorite example of this is the mommy track as I call it. I graduated from UT in 1994 and went to work as an environmental chemist, my company being centered in Austin, TX was fairly progressive and while it did have more men than women, my location was 50/50. I did notice when I started that of the management structure only one of the managers or directors was a women and it bugged me.

During my seven years in the job, I noticed that women would be promoted to the lower levels of management, and over 60% of the time those women would then get pregnant. Once they did, their priorities changed. The long hours and hard work were not as easy with a child, even when they had a supportive husband, but as a whole what I heard from those who changed positions was that after they had their child they just didn't want to focus on work as much, they wanted to focus on their children. They often left their positions or we had a lot of families that did split shifts so many went to reporting and data management and night shift.

Well, I started to understand. The company put time and effort to train these women, they introduced them to auditors and visiting clients as representatives of our company and our work ethic. Then when these women no longer wished to do that, they had to train someone else and fill the void. The retention rate for men was much higher. These women knew how hard they would have to work when they lobbied for and took these higher positions, I myself never accepted or let myself be interviewed for the positions since I knew I wanted to leave and go back to graduate school. But, I got the companies prospective. Why invest in women when they don't live up to their promises to work hard for the company and help it grow?

So it made me start looking at women and the fight for equality differently. I don't want equality as I have stated before. I also can't fault companies for being weary of hiring and promoting younger women who can easily take the mommy track out.

But we also need to realize ourselves how our actions as women affect others. When we don't appreciate our opportunities or act less that grateful or gracious we make the path harder for every women to come behind us.

I think as women instead of just crying that we don't support each other, we need to look at our actions and ask are we laying a fair foundation for our sisters to come?

[stuckinsc]

IMO, I don't think all of Andi's (and Josh's by associate) followers on IG came about organically. I think they didn't get them the old-fashioned way.  :hidingchair 

Change in topic. But you seem to know about the tv weddings. How far in advance would TPTB allow a tv wedding to be announced?

[Sable]

I won't have a problem as a viewer  if the F2  is some kind of lothario or a natural playboy  who can have sex with multiple women and not feel anything after that.   There are men and women who handle having sex  than say Andi who seemed to be expert at having casual sex and not attach any kind of feelings with it.

It is just NOT your journey it is also the journey of some real person having real human feelings about the process and about you.  How dare you say it's just your process doing things that's only RIGHT FOR YOU .  I just hate hate this kind of reasoning because it's so selfish and so incosiderate.   Granting that you are the lead and these are just your pawns but will it kill you to have some basic human decency to at least cushion the blow of your rejection because YOU KNOW that the way you view sex is different from how this less experienced person view sex.  

I was never a fan of YAWN  but I respect that he didnt treat his harem of women as sex objects to be test driven, because it was   his season and he has the option to.  Can you imagine if Yawn had sex with Ashleee???   You will not hear the end of it.  Some people go unhinged when sex are mixed with extreme emotions.   Andi was lucky she only got a jab that was festering in his mind for months.

And to add insult to injury  " No I never loved you, that was why I was careful not to say it"...  what kind of person is Andi really,  a disgusting selfish self centered dbag.  If a man says that to a woman after  "making love"...  

'Hey Miss I didnt love you, I just made sure to have sex with you so I will not leave no stone unturned after all this is done, F*cking you is not the same as saying I love you, Im sorry that you have feelings for me,  the season is over now go away.."    A man who will do that to a woman is a heartless dbag.   Andi is a dbag  no two ways about it.

Per the bolded...

I so agree w/this! This is exactly the vibe I got from Andi during her season, which was a similar vibe I got from Ben and his season. Ben's journey was all about him and he disrespected his bachelorettes left and right. I couldn't believe he actually went skinny dipping in the ocean w/Courtney when there were still 10 women left! I think that is one of the most disrespectful actions I have ever seen a lead do to their contestants. In some ways, Andi's level of selfishness reminds me of Ben's, only maybe not as extreme. I think that selfishness really reared its ugly head in Eric's exit and then again in Nick's. I also think her selfishness manifested itself in her wanting Josh from even before day 1; therefore, all the other men basically wasted their time and energy by coming on her season, imo.

[luvlady345]

I doubt it, but people have to remember even from a year ago SM is growing by leaps and bounds, just like on BB this guy was evicted and gave a shout out for his twitter and IG within 12 hours his twitter was up by 80 thousands, Andi/Josh both seem popular on IG, if she brought them they must be liking her photos also....

[umngirl]

IMO, I don't think all of Andi's (and Josh's by associate) followers on IG came about organically. I think they didn't get them the old-fashioned way.  :hidingchair 

Change in topic.  But you seem to know about the tv weddings.  How far in advance would TPTB allow a tv wedding to be announced?

3-4 months tops. I can't remember all the way back to Trista/Ryan, but SeanCat announced theirs about 3.5 months beforehand. I don't think they'd go any further in advancement than that.

[Lucas15]

Now check out IG followers for the same couples.  Also Sean and Cat had the added exposure of DWTS and have been going to events non-stop since his season.

IG
Sean 639k
Cat 643

1279

Andi 761
Josh 517

1278

JPG 364
Nikki 343

707

Ash 112
JP 10



I think with JP/Ash it's because their season was a while ago and they don't keep in the limelight either.  They do a little but nothing compared to Sean/Cat.

I was thinking of also looking at Instagram but I didn't have all the proper account names and I know many are not the same so I'm really glad you did it! It's very interesting - even more so that the Twitter data. I'm really surprised that Andi and Josh are almost tied with Sean & Catherine who have been active on IG for a long time.

I think if you combine your data and mine you end up with a pretty good sense of SM popularity.

[Sable]

Well if that's the case none of the  female leads will be getting a wedding because  they are never as high as the male leads, like I said earlier in a post really who is surprised about the ratings? Women are other  women worst enemy. The worst male lead rating are better than the best female ... So really no surprise here.

I think the ratings of The Bachelorette seasons have more to do with the fact that it airs during the summer when viewership in generally down more than anything else. I really don't think it has anything to do with the fact that the leads are women this time around.

Last summer I had a temporary part-time job at a marketing company and the marketing director would always say that SM really has no impact on the bottom line. In her words, SM was one of the worst ways to market your product. I also think that just because someone follows you on SM doesn't necessarily mean that they like you or are a fan of you. Plenty of people have followers on SM that do nothing but attack them and post negative comments on their SM activity.

[GuardianAngel]

IMO, I don't think all of Andi's (and Josh's by associate) followers on IG came about organically. I think they didn't get them the old-fashioned way.  :hidingchair 

Really why?  If they were buying them most people would buy them on twitter, which is very common....  

Actually, buying them on Instagram is very, very popular. I know of several big fashion bloggers for example who have done that in order to appear more popular to brands for advertising.

I just look at the jump Andi's took and it doesn't appear to be natural. She had quite a following being the lead already, and then they just jumped up way too fast for me to believe it simply happened naturally.

That's exactly correct. I am very familiar with that process and have posted that several times in the last few months. In my post upthread, I was referring to the number of pics I see of the three couples, selfies, fans, events etc, not the number of followers because that number means nothing to me.

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