Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[Sable]

Gender issues?

No way was Nick reaching deep down to be in touch with his famine side, Instead, IMO, he exhibited classic passive aggressive behavior. He said what he said because he wanted to level Andi and Josh --- take them both down a notch.

Question is, would Nick have done so knowing what he said only made him look like a pathetic jerk, even worst than when he blabbed loudly over the phone while sitting on a crowded plane --- something that only a few hundred would have seen on you tube, but because he intentionally violated contract and blabbed the ending of a popular reality show, tens of thousands.

Although it seems easier to understand why contestants do what they do than the leads, IMO Andi slept with her F2 because she wasn't 100% Josh until she was. Yes, he was the guy that had her attention from the moment they met and it worked out at the end, but we've seen first picks derail, for example Emily changed her focus, as did Des and Catherine wasn't on Sean's radar from the start.

I think Andi was always 100% Josh. The real question for Andi: was Josh 100% Andi? I think there are just too many coinkydinks from this season like Andi's Dad being a huge UGA fan and Andi going crazy when Aaron Murray started following her and Andi and Josh seeing each other at a night club while he was going through casting and she was already the bachelorette. I really think none of the other guys stood a chance. Andi basically said so herself when in one of her interviews after the season when she said that if Josh wasn't there she wouldn't have gotten engaged. From night one she had the 'pegged it, nailed it, damn!' right after meeting Josh. I remember somebody posting something on this board either shortly before or after the season aired about how some of the guys didn't feel that Andi was genuine and maybe some of that had to do with all the coincidences regarding the Murrays that they found out about after filming? Almost like Andi and Josh could have saved everyone's time and trouble if they would have just hooked up the day they saw each other in the night club? Just my honest opinion, but being the F1 was Josh's gig to lose. I think from before day one he would be the winner if he wanted it.

I don't think Nick came across like a pathetic Jerk during ATFR. I know some of the general public perceived him that way, but many didn't. I really didn't become a Nick fan until ATFR. For the majority of the season I was an Andi fan and a Josh fan. The finale and the ATFR changed my opinion. I do think that Andi made the right choice for her in picking Josh, but I do not believe for one moment that she didn't know by the time of the FS that Josh was her F1, she was just uncertain if she was Josh's F1. But if she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left on his own, then what she did with Nick in the FS doesn't make sense to me, especially if he never had a shot at being F1?

[Sable]

Is there anything new, positive and/or negative, about Nick that we can discuss?

Nick's latest Tweet is suggesting that he is not enjoy the weather.

That's because it is so hot, humid and sticky here in Chicago today and for the next several days as well. This is the hottest weather we've had all summer. It is miserable outside!

[Lucas15]

Clare was all too happy to reveal it in the finale “Don’t tell me you love f**ing me,” she sobbed to the camera right after giving Juan Pablo a piece of her mind. “Don’t tell me that. That to me is not a man.” http://theashleysrealityroundup.com/2014/03/11/clare-crawley-reveals-what-bachelor-juan-pablo-told-her-during-their-helicopter-date/.  Andi herself referenced it so many times in interviews.    

Thanks for the correction. I no longer have the episode on DVR so I had to go by articles. The one I read reported what I posted and the one you quoted makes it look like the finale wasn't where the exact statement was made where it said "‘Bachelor’ fans were left with many questions after tonight’s finale, but one is particularly nagging: What did Juan Pablo tell Clare during their final date that she felt was “disrespectful”

The take away should be that regardless of who alludes to matters which should remain private, it doesn't matter; private things should stay private and shouldn't be disclosed by either party.

[Alanna]

Gender issues?

No way was Nick reaching deep down to be in touch with his famine side, Instead, IMO, he exhibited classic passive aggressive behavior. He said what he said because he wanted to level Andi and Josh --- take them both down a notch.

Question is, would Nick have done so knowing what he said only made him look like a pathetic jerk, even worst than when he blabbed loudly over the phone while sitting on a crowded plane --- something that only a few hundred would have seen on you tube, but because he intentionally violated contract and blabbed the ending of a popular reality show, tens of thousands.

Although it seems easier to understand why contestants do what they do than the leads, IMO Andi slept with her F2 because she wasn't 100% Josh until she was. Yes, he was the guy that had her attention from the moment they met and it worked out at the end, but we've seen first picks derail, for example Emily changed her focus, as did Des and Catherine wasn't on Sean's radar from the start.

I think Andi was always 100% Josh.  The real question for Andi:  was Josh 100% Andi?  I think there are just too many coinkydinks from this season like Andi's Dad being a huge UGA fan and Andi going crazy when Aaron Murray started following her and Andi and Josh seeing each other at a night club while he was going through casting and she was already the bachelorette.  I really think none of the other guys stood a chance.  Andi basically said so herself when in one of her interviews after the season when she said that if Josh wasn't there she wouldn't have gotten engaged.  From night one she had the 'pegged it, nailed it, damn!' right after meeting Josh.  I remember somebody posting something on this board either shortly before or after the season aired about how some of the guys didn't feel that Andi was genuine and maybe some of that had to do with all the coincidences regarding the Murrays that they found out about after filming?  Almost like Andi and Josh could have saved everyone's time and trouble if they would have just hooked up the day they saw each other in the night club?  Just my honest opinion, but being the F1 was Josh's gig to lose.  I think from before day one he would be the winner if he wanted it.

I don't think Nick came across like a pathetic Jerk during ATFR.  I know some of the general public perceived him that way, but many didn't.  I really didn't become a Nick fan until ATFR.  For the majority of the season I was an Andi fan and a Josh fan.  The finale and the ATFR changed my opinion.  I do think that Andi made the right choice for her in picking Josh, but I do not believe for one moment that she didn't know by the time of the FS that Josh was her F1, she was just uncertain if she was Josh's F1.  But if she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left on his own, then what she did with Nick in the FS doesn't make sense to me, especially if he never had a shot at being F1?

Regarding the first paragraph, Andi came on the show not wanting someone like her type (Josh), was tired of the whole atl scene and has said she wanted to move away from atl altogether even. Josh said all those things were a burden for him to fight through with her, they weren't positives for him. Personally, I think she didn't really want to leave her life behind but was just really, really frustrated with the whole dating situation and thought a change would help. Combine that with thinking Josh was too good to be true because every guy like him in the past seems to have hurt her in some way, and I understand why she couldn't trust him or what they had until they were in the fs alone. She needed to verify he was who he said he was and she went through the whole deal here.

She also did like Nick for real. It wasn't what she had with Josh but Nick/Andi seem really similar so I think they did understand each other and could communicate well and have deep, intellectual conversations, which she really did love. If they met in another context, I could see them being friends, but not romantically involved.

I guess I don't understand why all this is so hard to believe. She came on this show, met both Josh and Nick, gave both of them a chance, and was open until the end but had to follow her heart. Her behavior with Josh was always different, but even she says that she couldn't admit to what it was- love- until the end. I just don't understand what the complexity is. She slept with him because she was going through the whole process and then at the end, made her decision, and it wasn't Nick.

[ironcat]

The question Nick asked, although worded as a question, really functioned more like a statement, IMO.   I wonder if Nick even expected Andi to give him an explanation; personally, I don't think so, because he HAD to have realized that the commotion caused by dropping such a bomb wouldn't encourage helpful sympathetic discussion on Andi's part.  He could have just gotten his point across by saying that he wished she hadn't chosen to sleep with him if she knew she wasn't in love with him, but I suppose he would have gotten even more flack for that comment.

It's funny, because the answer to that question has actually been posited on this board repeatedly by several posters, myself included.  I know some don't buy it, and think that Andi is just a selfish bitch, end of story, which is their right, but there is a credible explanation for Andi's actions/decisions (well, credible for the bizarre circumstances and regulations of this show, although it wouldn't be credible in the real world), which even Andi kind of gave in subsequent interviews about needing to take the dating process through all the steps until the end in order to know she was making the right decision.  IMO, although she knew at the time of Nick's FD that she wasn't in love with him YET, she didn't know for sure that she still wouldn't fall in love with him later, but I don't think, based on all the stuff that happened post show to piss her off, she was EVER going to give Nick the satisfaction of saying something along those lines.  

With all the talk about equality (or lack of it) between the sexes here, one thing to keep in mind is that this show is not set up for there to be equality among the participants.  The lead basically has more rights than the suitors, that's just the way it is.  The premise of the show is for THE LEAD to get their love story, however that can be accomplished, not for the suitors to get theirs, and that's why the suitors may end up feeling used and lied to, whether they're male or female.  Nature of the beast.

I also want to address Andi's claim that if Josh hadn't been cast, she would have walked away with nobody; I believe that is what SHE wants to believe, but not necessarily true. I think she would have picked Nick, and it would have fallen apart quickly once she was out of the bubble because they really aren't compatible, just like so many other final couples in the past. But based on how happy she is now with Josh, and especially on how much the two of them detest Nick, does anyone really expect her to admit to that now? And the leads pretty much ALL say the same thing, because it's not really a question you CAN answer any other way at the time without opening a whole nother can of worms.

[mindless]

I do think Nick's question came from an honest place but I also wish Nick could have gotten the closure he needed without asking it.  In a public forum, it opens all three parties up to a lot of speculation and conjecture and I wish, for all of them, that that could have been avoided.

I was about to agree with this, but then I thought about it some more and realized I just can't fault him for asking it. Even though I disliked Andi for various reasons and the way she was behaving towards Nick, during the first half of ATFR I remember thinking something along the lines of "Nick, what are you doing? She just wasn't that into you, time to let it go. She was just stringing you along like every other lead. Don't be THAT guy." But then when he brought up the sex, my sympathy towards him grew a lot, because she obviously did have some strong feelings towards him to go that far. She wasn't just doing her job and he wasn't reading too much into it. He had a valid reason to still be hurt and confused. It also made Andi's coldness seem that much worse. I mean she liked the guy enough to be that intimate with him, yet not enough to show some empathy towards him or apologize for breaking his heart? She was acting like he was some delusional clinger, who should've taken a hint when she didn't say I love you (even though she wasn't even allowed to). Nick making it known that they had sex and how he felt about it made me see the situation in a new light and it made me understand him a lot better. So honestly, good for him for saying it! He'd done nothing wrong up to that point (except talk loudly on a plane thinking no one knew who he was). He went on the show with honest intentions, fell in love and was then treated like crap and edited to seem like some creepy stalker. He didn't deserve any of that, so I wouldn't have wanted him to go home feeling used and misrepresented. That is such a crappy feeling. Some people think he's a jerk now, but at least he got to speak his mind and the people who could understand him have all the information to base their opinion on. So good for him!

That said, I definitely don't think he was thinking of the consequences when he voiced that question or that is was premeditated, but it did make many people understand his position a lot better. I think he deserves that much for everything he was put through. Andi and Josh found love, let Nick at least speak his mind, even if it wasn't the polite thing to do.

[Lucas15]

I do not believe for one moment that she didn't know by the time of the FS that Josh was her F1, she was just uncertain if she was Josh's F1.  But if she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left on his own, then what she did with Nick in the FS doesn't make sense to me, especially if he never had a shot at being F1?

And that bolded statement is IMHO precisely correct. Andi never said she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left, she said she didn't believe she would be engaged today if Josh had not been there and there's a difference. Contractually it's very difficult for the lead to quit the show before the end because they have agreed to be financially liable for costs incurred (including any and all expenses resulting from their early departure which could include lost revenue) if they fail to complete the series so I would never expect a lead to quit early. What Andi might have done had Josh not stayed and proposed is a total guessing game because it didn't happen that way, but I suspect she might well have picked Nick as F1 and gotten engaged to Nick at the end and tried to make it work. Let's not forget, she always said that she and Nick had a great relationship (but that Josh was a greater one) so why would she not have tried to make it work? Making such an effort though doesn't mean it would have been successful and perhaps outside of the bubble she realizes that it probably wouldn't have been and thus she wouldn't be engaged.

But once she learned that Josh was in love with her and wanted to marry her the game totally changed for her and that uncertainty was gone and I believe that totally changed her perspective on how she felt about Josh and very possibly Nick as well; that didn't happen until after her FD with Nick.

[charriotoffire]

Clare was all too happy to reveal it in the finale “Don’t tell me you love f**ing me,” she sobbed to the camera right after giving Juan Pablo a piece of her mind. “Don’t tell me that. That to me is not a man.” http://theashleysrealityroundup.com/2014/03/11/clare-crawley-reveals-what-bachelor-juan-pablo-told-her-during-their-helicopter-date/.  Andi herself referenced it so many times in interviews.    

Thanks for the correction. I no longer have the episode on DVR so I had to go by articles. The one I read reported what I posted and the one you quoted makes it look like the finale wasn't where the exact statement was made where it said "‘Bachelor’ fans were left with many questions after tonight’s finale, but one is particularly nagging: What did Juan Pablo tell Clare during their final date that she felt was “disrespectful”

The take away should be that regardless of who alludes to matters which should remain private, it doesn't matter; private things should stay private and shouldn't be disclosed by either party.

 

When Andi revealed how Juan Pablo talked about what he did with Clare Crawley in the fantasy suites,  nobody shushed her even when she was treading on dangerous territory.  Like when she revealed that Juan Pablo told her that Clare was just there by default because Sharleen backed out.  I mean these things could have hurt Clare but she didn't think about it, she just needed to reveal to the world how Juan Pablo is just the worst, inconsiderate bachelor.  Fantasy suite stuff should be private but I guess Andi didn't get the memo plus she enjoyed making fun of JP's accent that she didnt care about offending other people who speaks like JP.  

It's a tv show.  People reveal things just because. They even have microphones in the fantasy suites so the production knows what's going on.   I just don't get why its a crime to reveal something central to the plot.   Watching Big Brother UK , I thought they were showing porn.  BAchelorette/ Bachelor is just like Big Brother with all the hooking up and sex, the only difference is they kind of whitewash it with a proposal in the end.

[Kashathediva]

It's nice to think things that are private should remain private.   
Unfortunately, life does not work like this and hasn't for a long time.   In fact things, IMO are getting worse, and not better.
Even with HIPAA, how many times I have heard a name announced loudly when it never should have been announced at all.
In our own lives, where we aren't under a microscope or on a reality tv show, it's much more likely that certain things we want kept private will be. There is still some saving grace.
When you put yourself in an environment of a drama infested fish bowl, I would certainly not expect much privacy, much respect of privacy and in fact would definitely expect the opposite. Kind of like Big Brother's mantra: Expect the unexpected.
I believe the Machine knew all the right personality traits, all the volatile feelings involved, mixed them together, added some accelerants and hoped for a big KABOOM. They got it. Good for them.  
Charriot, I see we both referenced BB---like minds.

[charriotoffire]

I do not believe for one moment that she didn't know by the time of the FS that Josh was her F1, she was just uncertain if she was Josh's F1.  But if she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left on his own, then what she did with Nick in the FS doesn't make sense to me, especially if he never had a shot at being F1?

And that bolded statement is IMHO precisely correct. Andi never said she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left, she said she didn't believe she would be engaged today if Josh had not been there and there's a difference. Contractually it's very difficult for the lead to quit the show before the end because they have agreed to be financially liable for costs incurred (including any and all expenses resulting from their early departure which could include lost revenue) if they fail to complete the series so I would never expect a lead to quit early. What Andi might have done had Josh not stayed and proposed is a total guessing game because it didn't happen that way, but I suspect she might well have picked Nick as F1 and gotten engaged to Nick at the end and tried to make it work. Let's not forget, she always said that she and Nick had a great relationship (but that Josh was a greater one) so why would she not have tried to make it work?

But once she learned that Josh was in love with her and wanted to marry her the game totally changed for her and that uncertainty was gone and I believe that totally changed her perspective on how she felt about Josh and very possibly Nick as well; that didn't happen until after her FD with Nick.

This is like saying that she is just the kind of woman who needs an "insurance"  from people she claimed to love.  She needs to make sure there was a proposal so forget about what she said that she 'loves Josh from the moment she saw him".  Maybe its just me but If Im in love with Brat Pitt and its him and only him, I will forget about bedding the soundman just because it will just soil the  fantasy suite experience with the man I claim to love.   But just in case Brat Pitt wont propose I have to go all out in the fantasy suite experience with the soundman so I could have a proposal in the end and just to have a point of comparison, whatever YOLO!  

Fast forward to fantasy suite with Brad Pitt.  Everything was perfect, he lives in Atlanta, he has a popular football player brother and he will propose. JACKPOT.  Let us get rid of the soundman before he spoils the proposal.  

And just for a little grain of reality here,  Can you actually really bed two different people in one week and say to someone I only love you and only you since the first time I saw you?   Im no way a prude but having sex with two different men (or women for that matter) in just a space of days on a reality tv just sound so trashy that I CANNOT put sacred concepts such as love and respect in that mix.   I mean even the trashiest tramp in big brother can only have sex with one man in two months (because they are on reality tv)

[Sable]

Gender issues?

No way was Nick reaching deep down to be in touch with his famine side, Instead, IMO, he exhibited classic passive aggressive behavior. He said what he said because he wanted to level Andi and Josh --- take them both down a notch.

Question is, would Nick have done so knowing what he said only made him look like a pathetic jerk, even worst than when he blabbed loudly over the phone while sitting on a crowded plane --- something that only a few hundred would have seen on you tube, but because he intentionally violated contract and blabbed the ending of a popular reality show, tens of thousands.

Although it seems easier to understand why contestants do what they do than the leads, IMO Andi slept with her F2 because she wasn't 100% Josh until she was. Yes, he was the guy that had her attention from the moment they met and it worked out at the end, but we've seen first picks derail, for example Emily changed her focus, as did Des and Catherine wasn't on Sean's radar from the start.

I think Andi was always 100% Josh.  The real question for Andi:  was Josh 100% Andi?  I think there are just too many coinkydinks from this season like Andi's Dad being a huge UGA fan and Andi going crazy when Aaron Murray started following her and Andi and Josh seeing each other at a night club while he was going through casting and she was already the bachelorette.  I really think none of the other guys stood a chance.  Andi basically said so herself when in one of her interviews after the season when she said that if Josh wasn't there she wouldn't have gotten engaged.  From night one she had the 'pegged it, nailed it, damn!' right after meeting Josh.  I remember somebody posting something on this board either shortly before or after the season aired about how some of the guys didn't feel that Andi was genuine and maybe some of that had to do with all the coincidences regarding the Murrays that they found out about after filming?  Almost like Andi and Josh could have saved everyone's time and trouble if they would have just hooked up the day they saw each other in the night club?  Just my honest opinion, but being the F1 was Josh's gig to lose.  I think from before day one he would be the winner if he wanted it.

I don't think Nick came across like a pathetic Jerk during ATFR.  I know some of the general public perceived him that way, but many didn't.  I really didn't become a Nick fan until ATFR.  For the majority of the season I was an Andi fan and a Josh fan.  The finale and the ATFR changed my opinion.  I do think that Andi made the right choice for her in picking Josh, but I do not believe for one moment that she didn't know by the time of the FS that Josh was her F1, she was just uncertain if she was Josh's F1.  But if she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left on his own, then what she did with Nick in the FS doesn't make sense to me, especially if he never had a shot at being F1?

Regarding the first paragraph, Andi came on the show not wanting someone like her type (Josh), was tired of the whole atl scene and has said she wanted to move away from atl altogether even. Josh said all those things were a burden for him to fight through with her, they weren't positives for him. Personally, I think she didn't really want to leave her life behind but was just really, really frustrated with the whole dating situation and thought a change would help. Combine that with thinking Josh was too good to be true because every  guy like him in the past seems to have hurt her in some way, and I understand why she couldn't trust him or what they had until they were in the fs alone. She needed to verify he was who he said he was and she went through the whole deal here.

She also did like Nick for real. It wasn't what she had with Josh but Nick/Andi seem really similar so I think they did understand each other and could communicate well and have deep, intellectual conversations, which she really did love. If they met in another context, I could see them being friends, but not romantically involved.

I guess I don't understand why all this is so hard to believe. She came on this show, met both Josh and Nick, gave both of them a chance, and was open until the end but had to follow her heart. Her behavior with Josh was always different, but even she says that she couldn't admit to what it was- love- until the end. I just don't understand what the complexity is. She slept with him because she was going through the whole process and then at the end, made her decision, and it wasn't Nick.

I am aware of what Andi said, but what's she going to say? Yeah, I knew it was going to be Josh from before night one.. Of course not. No matter when the lead chooses their F1, whether it is the first night or later in the process, they are always going to say they didn't know until the very end. Yes, there are some seasons where the lead does not know who their F1 is going to be until near the end of filming (like Sean), but there are also a lot of seasons where the lead very obviously picks out their F1 from the first night (Matt Grant and Ben F. come to mind for me), and everyone else just goes along for the ride. I think w/Andi, that was taken even a step further because she knew of Josh and the Murrays before the season. It would be like Ben knowing of Courtney and her family before his season. Knowing that Courtney was a model and getting excited when her sister started following him on twitter.

Let me preface this by saying that I do not fault Andi for picking Josh, and I think she made the right choice for her. But I the main reason I flip flopped and became a Nick fan during the finale and ATFR is because I truly believe that Andi had Josh picked out as her F1 way before the FS episode, and that makes what she put Nick through even worse for me. I think that Andi had a selfishness about her when dealing w/Nick during the finale and ATFR that I have not seen from many of the other leads. I believe her selfishness level was something similar to what we saw w/Ben F. and his treatment of some of his women, but in a different way. When Andi was confronting the guys after letting Eric go was the first time she really showed her selfishness on her season.

[stuckinsc]

I think Andi was always 100% Josh.  The real question for Andi:  was Josh 100% Andi?  I think there are just too many coinkydinks from this season like Andi's Dad being a huge UGA fan and Andi going crazy when Aaron Murray started following her and Andi and Josh seeing each other at a night club while he was going through casting and she was already the bachelorette.  I really think none of the other guys stood a chance.  Andi basically said so herself when in one of her interviews after the season when she said that if Josh wasn't there she wouldn't have gotten engaged.  From night one she had the 'pegged it, nailed it, damn!' right after meeting Josh.  I remember somebody posting something on this board either shortly before or after the season aired about how some of the guys didn't feel that Andi was genuine and maybe some of that had to do with all the coincidences regarding the Murrays that they found out about after filming?  Almost like Andi and Josh could have saved everyone's time and trouble if they would have just hooked up the day they saw each other in the night club?  Just my honest opinion, but being the F1 was Josh's gig to lose.  I think from before day one he would be the winner if he wanted it.

I don't think Nick came across like a pathetic Jerk during ATFR.  I know some of the general public perceived him that way, but many didn't.  I really didn't become a Nick fan until ATFR.  For the majority of the season I was an Andi fan and a Josh fan.  The finale and the ATFR changed my opinion.  I do think that Andi made the right choice for her in picking Josh, but I do not believe for one moment that she didn't know by the time of the FS that Josh was her F1, she was just uncertain if she was Josh's F1.  But if she would have walked away from the show if Josh had left on his own, then what she did with Nick in the FS doesn't make sense to me, especially if he never had a shot at being F1?

Regarding the first paragraph, Andi came on the show not wanting someone like her type (Josh), was tired of the whole atl scene and has said she wanted to move away from atl altogether even. Josh said all those things were a burden for him to fight through with her, they weren't positives for him. Personally, I think she didn't really want to leave her life behind but was just really, really frustrated with the whole dating situation and thought a change would help. Combine that with thinking Josh was too good to be true because every  guy like him in the past seems to have hurt her in some way, and I understand why she couldn't trust him or what they had until they were in the fs alone. She needed to verify he was who he said he was and she went through the whole deal here.

She also did like Nick for real. It wasn't what she had with Josh but Nick/Andi seem really similar so I think they did understand each other and could communicate well and have deep, intellectual conversations, which she really did love. If they met in another context, I could see them being friends, but not romantically involved.

I guess I don't understand why all this is so hard to believe. She came on this show, met both Josh and Nick, gave both of them a chance, and was open until the end but had to follow her heart. Her behavior with Josh was always different, but even she says that she couldn't admit to what it was- love- until the end. I just don't understand what the complexity is. She slept with him because she was going through the whole process and then at the end, made her decision, and it wasn't Nick.

I am aware of what Andi said, but what's she going to say?  Yeah, I knew it was going to be Josh from before night one..  Of course not.  No matter when the lead chooses their F1, whether it is the first night or later in the process, they are always going to say they didn't know until the very end.  Yes, there are some seasons where the lead does not know who their F1 is going to be until near the end of filming (like Sean), but there are also a lot of seasons where the lead very obviously picks out their F1 from the first night (Matt Grant and Ben F. come to mind for me), and everyone else just goes along for the ride.   I think w/Andi, that was taken even a step further because she knew of Josh and the Murrays before the season.  It would be like Ben knowing of Courtney and her family before his season.  Knowing that Courtney was a model and getting excited when her sister started following him on twitter.

Let me preface this by saying that I do not fault Andi for picking Josh, and I think she made the right choice for her.  But I the main reason I flip flopped and became a Nick fan during the finale and ATFR is because I truly believe that Andi had Josh picked out as her F1 way before the FS episode, and that makes what she put Nick through even worse for me.  I think that Andi had a selfishness about her when dealing w/Nick during the finale and ATFR that I have not seen from many of the other leads.  I believe her selfishness level was something similar to what we saw w/Ben F. and his treatment of some of his women, but in a different way.  When Andi was confronting the guys after letting Eric go was the first time she really showed her selfishness on her season.

I am really trying not to discuss Andi in the Nick thread anymore, but I love the paragraph I bolded.

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