Re: Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Fan Forum - General Discussion Thread #2

[edenpol]

I didn't see the interview, but the bolded sounds far more like something Michelle would say. She would have been supportive of Josh and Andi for sure.

I gave a link :cutesmile!:

[Admin]

While I think it's been coming, I don't necessarily think things were absolutely horrible behind the scenes. You can certainly realize you're not right for someone, but still care about someone and relatively get along with them. I think their daily routine, such as going to the gym together, shopping together, going out to dinner together, and spending time with their families, especially with the Dorfman's, is something they continued on with up until the very end.

Andi moved in with him back in May, but she still had her own apartment. She willingly didn't resign the lease back towards the end of September, so for her to lose that safety net of having her own place, they must have been intent on trying to make it work and things might not have been as bad as they have been the past month or two. I personally noticed some small changes starting in December.  

I still think it's that the two of them want two different things. Josh is 30 and wants that family life. Andi is 27, and while that's not necessarily young, I think she's a young 27. I just don't see her wanting to get married and starting a family in the next couple of years. Nothing wrong with that, but it's two different paths. Not to mention, Josh is just kind of that happy go lucky kind of guy. I think while they have a lot in common and similarities, at the same time they don't. Their personalities just don't make sense in some ways. With Andi's very in charge personality, she's going to need a very quiet guy and that isn't Josh or anyone that was on the show really.

With MM's message and the way things have gone so far, I think it's going to be pretty clean breakup, but still doesn't make it any easier for anyone involved or for some of you very sweet ladies. While I think it was mutual, the way Josh was on Monday and just some other small things, I tend to think Josh wanted it over with.

Good post, ITA.

[Admin]

They had loads and loads of time alone in Atlanta, for months and months.  My view is that killed it -- the usual, banal situation of show bubble followed by really getting to know one another.

Also, in terms of depth of feeling and commitment even at the end of the show bubble, we can all admit that Andi's proposal speech was "off" -- multitude of posts on here even by diehard fans noting so at the time.  It was a really weird (head not heart) speech and we all knew it.  I wonder if she didn't have reservations even then -- after LCD she sat on that sofa with him, thinking and over-thinking and at the end of the day, he projected all that (over?)-confidence onto her, and she bought stock in Josh not Nick (who was All About the Doubts).  

Post-show their hopes were Sky High for paid opportunities, personal appearances, endorsement opportunities, etc., and if we are honest, really very little of substance came their way, notwithstanding the PR agency's success at getting local mags to print pretty pictures, etc.  They really put the couple out there in Atlanta, and it seems that no material $$ opportunities (i.e.., something with long term possibility for building a life, vs. short term cash) came their way.

Sean / Cat had the extra cash from DWTS to buy time to launch his book, her various fashion/style comps (and of course, their own personal relationship).

Chris S. went right back to his job at the bank, while Des had the perfect "fit" between her education/training pre show and her modest celebrity brand post show (bridal design).

Even if Josh is still on the roster at Capstone (a largely commission based job that pays exactly what you put into it), his financial prospects remain undeveloped there, as evidenced by (a) pre show move to Atlanta, and (b) post show launch of an Adovocare distributorship (insert rant about ALL MLM businesses, expecially those in the nutritional supplement category).  I NEVER had the impression Andi was "all-in" on that business.  Maybe people who attended some of those events saw a sincerity in her commitment.  But I wonder if there is simply mutual lack of professional clarity and direction making Joint Decision-making about what to do and where to live, etc. prone to conflicts.  It is a fair generalization that men (and probably Andi too) require confidence and security in their career stability and progress in order to avoid a host of negative behaviors and emotions that are driven by such feelings of fear and insecurity.  And Josh carries that constant ex-pro athlete, brother as a pro athlete, experience like a ball and chain.  He seemed to be looking at marriage as a way to save himself, the game changer, as opposed to really exorcising his old demons from Baseball, UGA athletics, etc., by finding genuine professional fulfillment on his own.

Add in the respective family dynamics?   There's definitely something amiss there, that none of us really understand.

All in all, a very stressful situation, playing out in the public eye somewhat, with two strong willed, hot-tempered people crammed into a too-small apartment, squabbling (do any of us think Andi didn't bicker, etc.), and getting depressing reports from their PR agency about their $$ prospects.  

Many of us posted that they needed to turn to Real Life not Celebrity Life post show to have a chance.  I think their choices in hindsight speak to a lack of commitment to the idea of marriage to him on her part at a minimum.  

So in hindsight the breakup strikes me as just the usual for this show:  let's see what happens when the producers and cameras disappear.  

All of the above is intended to be DESCRIPTIVE of a mismatch, not critical of either.

Very interesting post, but one thing I disagree with you on is that I don't think Josh cared so much about the publicity. I think he enjoyed their fans and the support they got and wanted to use what fame they had to help others and make a little money on the side (Advocare), but I think he truly is more of a homebody and wanted to just settle down. I think he got tired of a lot of their obligations and personal appearances. This could have been a source of contention between the two also.

[aviej]

Ash

I'm happy it didn't last longer than it needed to. So now Josh can move on, I think he'd be in a good place in a couple months and who knows, maybe he'd have a date to his brother's wedding (someone who is is serious about). I find that many persons who leave without love in this franchise, especially the F4, when they break up in no time they find the one and get married. I'm hoping that's the case for Josh knowing that he wants to raise children young.

With MM's message and the way things have gone so far, I think it's going to be pretty clean breakup, but still doesn't make it any easier for anyone involved or for some of you very sweet ladies. While I think it was mutual, the way Josh was on Monday and just some other small things, I tend to think Josh wanted it over with.[/quote]
Good post, ITA.[/quote]
[/quote]

[Justafan2]

I sincerely believe this couple tried their hardest. From posts of people just recently seeing them cuddled up, I can see they had their good days. It may just have been that the bad days started to outnumber the good. Had this couple met under other circumstances and not been engaged, but just dating, I have a feeling they would of broken up and gotten back together several times. Time will tell if they can work through whatever pushed them apart or they are better off just as friends.

[Alanna]

I don't think Andi is a young 27 or that she doesn't want to get married, I think she does and I think she most certainly will get married in the next 3-5 years. There were two topdawgs in that relationship and that was one topdawg too many, among other things that JL outlined above.

I also wonder if spending time with his family over the holidays Josh realized he didn't feel towards her like his parents felt about each other or his siblings' with their SOs. Josh seemed way more dunzo with this relationship than Andi to me now looking back over their sm.

[aviej]

Agreed Justafan2. But I won't be surprised if Josh's fan base increases while Andi's decreases because of this breakup.

[Justafan2]

Agreed Justafan2. But I won't be surprised if Josh's fan base increases while Andi's decreases because of this breakup.

IG already shows that, she had lost about 5k followers, and he has gained about 1k. I hope she leans on people outside of the bachelor world. I have no problems with Kelly or Nikki as I did not watch their seasons to see the "mean girls'. However, I think possibly the group of lawyer friends she has, for instance the one she was a maid of honor for, will be able to give her better perspective.

[Ash2214]

I don't think Andi is a young 27 or that she doesn't want to get married, I think she does and I think she most certainly will get married in the next 3-5 years. There were two topdawgs in that relationship and that was one topdawg too many, among other things that JL outlined above.

I also wonder if spending time with his family over the holidays Josh realized he didn't feel towards her like his parents felt about each other or his siblings' with their SOs. Josh seemed way more dunzo with this relationship than Andi to me now looking back over their sm.

Agreed.

[aviej]

Agreed Justafan2. But I won't be surprised if Josh's fan base increases while Andi's decreases because of this breakup.

IG already shows that, she had lost about 5k followers, and he has gained about 1k. I hope she leans on people outside of the bachelor world. I have no problems with Kelly or Nikki as I did not watch their seasons to see the "mean girls'. However, I think possibly the group of lawyer friends she has, for instance the one she was a maid of honor for, will be able to give her better perspective.

Exactly. I really don't get why people chase after stardom in any case. They seldom have long lasting relationships/marriages. I mean even CH has issues in that regard!

[Justafan2]

Agreed Justafan2. But I won't be surprised if Josh's fan base increases while Andi's decreases because of this breakup.

IG already shows that, she had lost about 5k followers, and he has gained about 1k. I hope she leans on people outside of the bachelor world. I have no problems with Kelly or Nikki as I did not watch their seasons to see the "mean girls'. However, I think possibly the group of lawyer friends she has, for instance the one she was a maid of honor for, will be able to give her better perspective.

Exactly. I really don't get why people chase after stardom in any case. They seldom have long lasting relationships/marriages. I mean even CH has issues in that regard!

I am not sure if this is the right thing to say on the fan thread, and I am definitely an Andi fan, however I almost hope this is the slap in the face she needs. I desperately think she needs to go back to the "real world". To me that doesn't necessarily mean go back to law. She could continue with her fashion line, just in a more private manner. What I don't want to see her doing, is continuing appearances and what not, unless truly for charity of course. She needs to step out of the limelight for a while.

[AnandaMarie]

I have heard all that you guys have to say but im still sad. I cried when I read what MM posted. It really seems like the end but I still do hope that they get back together and be happy.

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