Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 10 - Fan Forum - Updates - Discussion - Thread #9

[SueSt]

Sorry, but I find this article and many others that make the debate about gender bias simplistic and off the mark.
The real issue for me in ATFR is not about whether it's more acceptable for women than men to feel used after sex without love ...but about Nick trying to understand why Andi had sex with him if she knew how important the intimacy was to him and was not in love with him

I agree. My beef with Andi isn't that she had sex with both men, but rather how she played with Nick's heart. If she knew Josh was it from day one she shouldn't of had sex with Nick. She come out at the ATFR could as ice. My guess she did that to appear Josh, because I get a jealous vibe from him.  I think her feelings were stronger for Nick than she led on, because she knew Josh was watching backstage. If she would have been honest with her feelings, the comment by Nick wouldn't have been made. Since she told Josh it was him from the beginning, she couldn't let her true feelings for Nick to be known.

I can't help but think of her comment on liking mind games. checkmate for Nick.   

I said this on the discussion board. It wasn't that he had some virginal or deeper meaning on sex. He said on E! There's sex and there's making love. Since she couldn't (or wouldn't) tell him her feelings saying instead, "I wish I could tell you things back" he relied on her actions. She would be stupid not to understand that, so therefore she lead him on. Courtney described sex with Ben in the FS as reverse cowgirl style    while Nick mentions the emotional, physical, mental connection coming together that night as an act of making love. (no pun intended :giggle: ) Based on her giddy, intense description to her sister at MTP I think that's what did happen so the ending remains a mystery for me.

Hi Grace, Thanks for this comment.
Andi's comments to her sister really stood out for me too. I mean, sex was definitely not the issue.
The thing Andi mentioned when she broke off with Nick was his/their overanalyzing everything.
Not sure if we actually saw overanalyzing between them... but we did see deep and detailed conversations between them about his past relationships, his relationship with the other guys in the house, the recap of what happened at MTP, discussions about his fears of the proposal at the LCD...
I never took this to be overanalyzing, rather discussions leading to intimacy, but maybe at the end of the day Andi wanted less discussions, accountability and intimacy... ???

[notarose]

2boys3girls
Thanks for posting.  I'd say Sharleen basically threw Nick onto the NYC subway tracks.  She could have kept a balance by saying less but I think she wanted to take a stand.  No mention of what might have been different had the producers allowed a private talk much earlier.  

A glaring oversight - no mention of how much the producers wanted the most heart wrenching response possible from Nick by denying him any form of access; better to accelerate his anxiety knowing he was hanging on to a thread of hope.

SADZ.  But I am hopeful   that Nick can move on from these bubble people.

[SueSt]

2boys3girls
Thanks for posting.  I'd say Sharleen basically threw Nick onto the NYC subway tracks.  She could have kept a balance by saying less but I think she wanted to take a stand.  No mention of what might have been different had the producers allowed a private talk much earlier.  

A glaring oversight - no mention of how much the producers wanted the most heart wrenching response possible from Nick by denying him any form of access; better to accelerate his anxiety knowing he was hanging on to a thread of hope.

SADZ.  But I am hopeful   that Nick can move on from these bubble people.

thanks for the summary NR. Don't have to read it now.
So true on the delayed ability to speak to Andi and what it must have done to Nick's psyche.

[lleyki]

Now I may be biased because I like Sharleen but I don't think she threw Nick at the bus. I think she was in an awkward position where she clearly likes everyone involved well enough and was trying very hard to be unbiased. Yes she lost the point like many of these other articles with the whole "Andi was being judged for being a woman" or whatever but I loved that she included her friend's interpretation which was basically what we Nick fans have been saying, "that sex meant something to him and she knew that and that's what makes what she did wrong."

Also, honestly, I'm not surprised that Sharleen had a "Nick you needed to get over it" attitude because I love her and while I do see many similarities between her and Nick, I definitely think she comes across a bit more emotionally stoic than him. My guess is Sharleen is the type to just internalize her pain and if someone breaks up with her, will just deal with it privately/internally. Nick wears his heart and emotions on his sleeve. So I can see how in that sense she wouldn't fully relate with and understand why he couldn't just let it go. But I don't think she was really judging him harshly for it. She just didn't understand it.

[SueSt]

Now I may be biased because I like Sharleen but I don't think she threw Nick at the bus. I think she was in an awkward position where she clearly likes everyone involved well enough and was trying very hard to be unbiased. Yes she lost the point like many of these other articles with the whole "Andi was being judged for being a woman" or whatever but I loved that she included her friend's interpretation which was basically what we Nick fans have been saying, "that sex meant something to him and she knew that and that's what makes what she did wrong."

Also, honestly, I'm not surprised that Sharleen had a "Nick you needed to get over it" attitude because I love her and while I do see many similarities between her and Nick, I definitely think she comes across a bit more emotionally stoic than him. My guess is Sharleen is the type to just internalize her pain and if someone breaks up with her, will just deal with it privately/internally. Nick wears his heart and emotions on his sleeve. So I can see how in that sense she wouldn't fully relate with and understand why he couldn't just let it go. But I don't think she was really judging him harshly for it. She just didn't understand it.

Didn't read the article but personal pet peeve of mine - It's never ok to tell someone to get over their feelings.  Feeling are feelings.  If you're really being supportive, you listen and let the person get over their feelings in their own way and in their own time.

Particularly in the awkward position Nick was in (to NR's point) having to wait months to finally discuss what happened and in front of millions of people.  I would think Sharleen (anyone) would cut him a LOT of slack!

Also based on the media post-ATFR, it looks like Nick is well on his way to getting over Andi.

[beader]

I like that most of the comments on Sharleen's blog supported Nick. Some may have been written by Nick fans from this board.

I'm hoping Nick and JJ will post where they'll be hanging out this weekend so a ton of great girls will be there--just for fun of course...

[Pia1]

Ooh he looks so hot!      If I only were single, I'd be hanging out in Chi-town all day long.... he does not need the Bachelor, he will have them lining up the streets to date him..

I prefer his curls but straight looks good on him too.  Yes, he's been really looking hot to me these few days!

I don't have curly hair. Can he get that look just from blow drying it?

His hair is similar to hubby's and he just air dry's it, otherwise if he blowdry's it get poofy.

[Guest]

2boys3girls
Thanks for posting.  I'd say Sharleen basically threw Nick onto the NYC subway tracks.  She could have kept a balance by saying less but I think she wanted to take a stand.  No mention of what might have been different had the producers allowed a private talk much earlier.  

A glaring oversight - no mention of how much the producers wanted the most heart wrenching response possible from Nick by denying him any form of access; better to accelerate his anxiety knowing he was hanging on to a thread of hope.

SADZ.  But I am hopeful   that Nick can move on from these bubble people.

You're welcome, NR! I was not thrilled at all with this recap. I expected it. I just want to shout WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH WHAT NICK SAID   He had a genuine question IMO. Nobody knows what the conversation was like in that FS other than what the intimacy meant to him.

It has been repeated too many times that this is a show, people are mislead, and they know what they are getting into. It isn't like they are all actors in a romantic comedy/drama with no elements of realness/truth. What I have an issue with is that there are true feelings and an ending that affects the lives of those involved when all is said and done.

I am glad to see that Nick is home and will be hanging out with friends this weekend.

[lleyki]

Didn't read the article but personal pet peeve of mine - It's never ok to tell someone to get over their feelings. Feeling are feelings. If you're really being supportive, you listen and let the person get over their feelings in their own way and in their own time.

I'd suggest reading the article yourself because personal interpretations can always be wrong. That said, to be clear, I didn't get the feeling Sharleen was telling to "just get over it" in an eye-rolling, frustrated way. And she acknowledges that part of her feeling towards the whole thing is because of her personal feelings and how she knows she'd have too much pride to keep pushing the issue. I get that because I'm like Sharleen in that way. It's why I had to struggle to watch all that stuff on Monday because I'm very much a "walls up, shut down and internalize everything...." Yeah probably not very healthy but it is what it is.

I will say it does seem like Sharleen seemed to think that Nick was maybe hoping that Andi would change her mind and he wanted to talk to her in private to convince her of that and I don't think that was the case at all. Like I said above, I definitely don't agree with everything she said but I think this was obviously a difficult recap for her to write and she did as good a job as she could with it. Just my opinion of course. And I definitely did not feel like she threw Nick under the bus and dislikes him now or something.

[Pia1]

Where can I get Screencaps of Nick comingout of the bldg and fans asking him for selfies? I really liked how he looked. I'd like a full body shot.

[Cecilia]

I'm fine with her blog. He wasn't 100% right in everything he did and neither was she. The end.

[SueSt]

Didn't read the article but personal pet peeve of mine - It's never ok to tell someone to get over their feelings.  Feeling are feelings.  If you're really being supportive, you listen and let the person get over their feelings in their own way and in their own time.

I'd suggest reading the article yourself because personal interpretations can always be wrong. That said, to be clear, I didn't get the feeling Sharleen was telling to "just get over it" in an eye-rolling, frustrated way. And she acknowledges that part of her feeling towards the whole thing is because of her personal feelings and how she knows she'd have too much pride to keep pushing the issue. I get that because I'm like Sharleen in that way. It's why I had to struggle to watch all that stuff on Monday because I'm very much a "walls up, shut down and internalize everything...." Yeah probably not very healthy but it is what it is.

I will say it does seem like Sharleen seemed to think that Nick was maybe hoping that Andi would change her mind and he wanted to talk to her in private to convince her of that and I don't think that was the case at all. Like I said above, I definitely don't agree with everything she said but I think this was obviously a difficult recap for her to write and she did as good a job as she could with it. Just my opinion of course. And I definitely did not feel like she threw Nick under the bus and dislikes him now or something.

Thanks, lleyki. Appreciate your additional thoughts and sharing.
For me, it's not pride that keeps people from talking, it's fear.
To my eyes, Nick demonstrated immense courage to solider on in the face of Andi's off-putting demeanor and in front of millions of viewers.
Seriously, what a man!!

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