Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 10 - *Fan Forum* - *Spoilers* - Discussion - Thread #5

[Guest]

 :cutesmile!:  :cutesmile!: 
See I thought the opposite.  I thought Nick having his LCD air last means she isn't going to let him go.  They would want, IMO to play up Josh and Andi's connection, which would lead in to her letting Nick go the next day.

Yes! Pretty sure in Emily's season that she let Arie go and then had her LCD with Jef. This way fans can accept the harsh reality that their favorite is gone and turn their attention to the relationship that lead has with her chosen one. It's more credible to see lead happy, confident going into FRC.

I personally hope Andi cuts the cord with Josh the morning after his LCD. Clearly there is a reason that TPTB left in the fact that she is still expressing doubts about their relationship. And, I seriously don't think that it's to create doubt with the spoiler. If Josh was true F1, my bet is that the preview would cast doubt on Josh's end (playing up the jock who can't commit stereotype) so audience can all feel sorry/concern for Andi that all her fears about Josh are coming true. Instead the words are coming from ANDI's mouth so she's the one with the issues and it's a little late to still have them at this stage.

I predict the above all because of what we learned last season. ABC certainly had enough film of Brooks wearing a suit but they never did their magic and added it into the preview footage to dangle the possibility that Brooks was indeed coming back for Des (or even flash a scene of Drew in a suit to suggest that maybe he proposes). Brooks' returning was the spoiler after all and that's what ABC wanted viewers to believe because at least 4 TRUSTED SOURCES posing as fans came on this board and said that the spoiler was correct in the days leading into finale. Wrong! Won't get fooled again. In preview we only saw Chris in his suit and looking a bit sweaty. Chris & Des are still looking pretty darn happy today. Love them!  

So ... my gut prediction says that we are shown her dumping Josh after his LCD and then she enjoys a very sexy LCD with Nick followed by Nick ring shopping and finale/proposal. Hurray! Happy couple moving to Chicago in ATFR.  

:cutesmile!:

ITA. Chris was shown last too after Des let Drew go...

i simply think Nick's shown last to reiterate the Great Love storyline that dedicated to them. You know, the 'connection' should left a lasting impression on the viewers mind, you know, to prepare us for the coming adrorable mess FRC and an incinceivable ATFR  :cutesmile!: . He was the First Impression guy at the start, and will be the Lasting Impression guy at the finish line

[Guest]

I see that.  Who knows though?  I think the show has been on too long to predict or compare other seasons.  Last season CH was downplaying Brooks and Des relationship and Brooks was not F1.  This year he is downplaying significance of Josh and Andi's relationship as compared to Nick.  But I think it is just different storyboards each year that they make up a little bit before, during and mostly after filming.

naaah....

just wanted to share what i found about CH and his blog on Des's season.

In the foiler-ish season, of course he needs to downplay the connection between the lead and non- F1. Remember, he is the Mr. Right Guy. His blog and interview will forever still in the media long after the season end. Me thinks he loves to be praised as a great Mr. Right when people look back to his blog after knowing the season's outcome: darn ! CH was right all along...*rollingeyes*

this season is no different, if not more. with the mega foiler sitting nicely out there, why would CH need to downplay the actual lovestory and later on, make people think he is/was dumb to not knowing the outcome?.(i believe 99% its Nian--yes rising up from 97.5%..thanks to the synopsys ). just doesnt make any sense , at least to me

[unknown82]

So I came back from an amazing John legend concert last night and I wanted to dedicate this song to Nick and Andi.  I feel this song So High describes their Beautiful love story as Andi has often times stated she definitely feels on cloud 9 when she is with Nick. I believe in their love story and I am ready to see them happy on July 28th.

[happygolucky]

I watched Des' season (only episodes online) this year, few weeks ago, so take it as bias opinion all you want ... I found the story between Des & Brooks over-played ... If that can be the right word? ... I actually believe TPTB shows us pretty much what there is, like it is, I don't think they actually show you something that isn't there ... but they do put more in-front, evidence it, highlight  the part that would lead audience make their deductions ... that could be wrong (and they are counting on it).
They use the great power of affirmation ... by choosing specific words for certain people ... they sell us a story, they sell us the image, they sell us the characters. Of course like in every fictional TV show, characters are more likely black&white defined (usually because of lack of time and for the purpose of creating the interest) ... good vs. bad ... but they show every character enough to make you relate to them, to sympathize, to empathize, to care (for each their own). The edit then does the trick in playing with our emotions once we are invested.
With Brooks, as I understood, they promoted him heavily, for most-likely being F1, just the same as it is happening with Josh. They showed the gushing and blushing of Des over Brooks, they kept showing us, what I call, superficial chemistry, that, mind me, there could had been more, I never dismiss that we don't see it all, but for a 'good foundation' kind of story, they didn't show us the real "pearl" of that relationship. There was no mutual growth, there was no real "laying the base" for giving us any insight, that that relationship could work IRL. I could see that with Chris they were showing us all of that. At the end Des, if Des would have picked Brooks, if he wouldn't have walked away, there would have been this common understanding that she just liked Brooks more. Fine. But then the edit (hypothetically speaking) would have to change ... it would make no sense to show us the relationship between Des and Chris in such a depth (note, although I didn't pay attention that good to the words, I don't recall her ever using 'too strong', 'significantly heavy' words for Chris, or am I wrong?) ... Can you follow me? ...

so now ... comparing the edit with this season ... I see the frontrunner, as far as screen time and alone-with-Andi time, in Nick ... they are showing him to us, to make us pull sides, to maybe gives us enough of information to "understand this guy", who feels like fish out of water in this "fictitious environment" ... at the same time, they are not promoting him, they aren't putting his face on the adds/TVshows, they haven't showed us the intro video, the media dismisses him as one who would have any chance with Andi ... the advertisement going around for months (even before the show started - which I wasn't even aware of) is screaming Josh=F1.

The edit of the show is giving both guys equal chance. They both ... if you "buy the words" that Andi says ... have their qualities and their faults ... and then ... there are problems ... those problems that the audience always needs, for the purpose of own personal resolution, like in Greek comedy (or tragedy if you'd like) - catharsis.
Every story has its own end. The closure. The enlightenment.

(Are you still following me? - I know I'm jumping from one issue to another.)

So ... we concluded:
Nick is shown frontrunner. Josh is F1 in all of the promotion going on.

Now for Nick ... the words and image that TPTB is giving us goes like this:
BY ANDI: he is sincere, genuine, sweet MAN, serious (I would add ... in his intentions ... for god's sake, do people really buy that Nick is so serious that cannot joke or laugh? - and to answer my own question - yes, there are people, who believe that Nick doesn't have humor), intense
word associations: passion, mental connection
BY THE EDIT: he is manipulative ("When will she see it?"), strategic ("How cool it's gonna be when he doesn't see it coming"), arrogant ("someone needs to put him down"), d*bag ("everything comes around"), snake - over confidant ("and it's gonna bite him in the ass")
word associations: not there for right reasons, insincere
BY majority of PUBLIC created by social pages and media: creep, s. killer, ugly, I won't continue.

Nick has not only 1 problem, but 2, 3, 4, 5!:

his major: IS HE there for the right reasons?
We see him say ILY, hear him ask permission for daughter's hand ...
but! ... Will he actually propose?
If he doesn't come to the proposal, meaning, if she lets him go before he has a chance to propose, how will we know how serious was he?
And all the voices I wrote in the brackets above would not get their own satisfaction.
He has to get down on 1 knee. And then get it. (whatever the verdict)

his 2. problem (all for the story, if you believe it):
he is serious, not so goofy & fun and easy going as Josh (because remember, they want us to compare these two), he doesn't bond well with others.
So the last date ... that jeep ride and lake/lagoon swim ... sounds like adventure kind of fun to me?
Interestingly enough, they hide the HTD time with friends and the happy-hour before meeting the family for dinner. They post online extra-deleted scene with him and Brian, where Nick tries his sarcastic joke and it backfires ... they take the video down.

Problem n.3:
His family is more concerned about his heartbreak than whether Nick & Andi are right for each other.
Hmmm ... where should I start on this one?
1) I think they don't need to question A&N FIT, if they had a conversation with Nick and see him act in certain way ... I think his family knows him best and knows that if he is convinced, there must be a reason.
2) I did hear his dad ask Andi to have a private talk with her, I think I saw a scene (in a split second) of her talking with 2 of Nick's sisters, answering questions about "mutual connection and common ground for a future relationship", I think we all saw Bella's list of questions ... so ... I repeat... Really?

The point of this problem ... was to lead us to a bigger issue (and Sharleen in her blog wrote it much better) ... and back to the problem n.1 ... Nick's sincerity.
How does he explain his past to Andi? Why does he view it one way, when his family tells a different story.
- Lets just say. Case closes.
Nick said it all: it was embarrassing, bruised ego, over-romanticized relationship, learned from it all, got his clarity later on.

N.4 problem:
not enough of that physical connection ... You know what they say about Chemistry!?
The one part of their relationship that TPTB downplayed ... not that it was hidden ... just not enough emphasized, since that was reserved for Josh.
But who can forget all those touches, kisses, that feel like they are breathing eachother's air.
But no ... put it down on paper people! Nick is not that good looking for any woman to want him that badly. (you do know those are not my personal thoughts)

At the end ... the issue n.5 lingers:
Is he ready? Ready and prepared to open his heart again, be vulnerable, with a possibility of getting hurt again (not just by being rejected, but even later ... you know, there is no certainty in life)? Is he committed to be with only 1 woman, this woman, stubborn and demanding, bitchy at times and ambitious (and no, these are not insults)?
He says he is ... there is that mental connection ... that helps him sooth Andi's soul, when tension runs high, when disagreements arise, he knows her, she knows him, he understand her, she understands him, he feels what she feels, ... oh, this is getting cheesy!
So lets put him on the test ... when it stares you right in the face ...
what you gonna do?

So ... my question ... if you remember what was written about Des-Chris "relationship build" ...

Why would TPTB put so much effort and time to go in such a detail, to portray their relationship more than one-dimensional, more than just one-problem-one-solution kind of story?

But first thing first ... it's Andi's decision. So girl, pull that trigger!

[SueSt]

See I thought the opposite.  I thought Nick having his LCD air last means she isn't going to let him go.  They would want, IMO to play up Josh and Andi's connection, which would lead in to her letting Nick go the next day.

Yes! Pretty sure in Emily's season that she let Arie go and then had her LCD with Jef. This way fans can accept the harsh reality that their favorite is gone and turn their attention to the relationship that lead has with her chosen one. It's more credible to see lead happy, confident going into FRC.

I personally hope Andi cuts the cord with Josh the morning after his LCD. Clearly there is a reason that TPTB left in the fact that she is still expressing doubts about their relationship. And, I seriously don't think that it's to create doubt with the spoiler. If Josh was true F1, my bet is that the preview would cast doubt on Josh's end (playing up the jock who can't commit stereotype) so audience can all feel sorry/concern for Andi that all her fears about Josh are coming true. Instead the words are coming from ANDI's mouth so she's the one with the issues and it's a little late to still have them at this stage.

I predict the above all because of what we learned last season. ABC certainly had enough film of Brooks wearing a suit but they never did their magic and added it into the preview footage to dangle the possibility that Brooks was indeed coming back for Des (or even flash a scene of Drew in a suit to suggest that maybe he proposes). Brooks' returning was the spoiler after all and that's what ABC wanted viewers to believe because at least 4 TRUSTED SOURCES posing as fans came on this board and said that the spoiler was correct in the days leading into finale. Wrong! Won't get fooled again. In preview we only saw Chris in his suit and looking a bit sweaty. Chris & Des are still looking pretty darn happy today. Love them!  

So ... my gut prediction says that we are shown her dumping Josh after his LCD and then she enjoys a very sexy LCD with Nick followed by Nick ring shopping and finale/proposal. Hurray! Happy couple moving to Chicago in ATFR.  

:cutesmile!:

LOVE this prediction MVMOM. It allows the Andi and N&A to move forward in the best light; allowing us to see Andi leave Josh behind before she actually moves forward with Nick.

[SueSt]

Can I just say I love that Andi was on the same page as Nick at the end of the Dinant date... dreaming about marriage.  

"And I do see that possibility of him standing at the very end...I do."

And her statement anticipates her wedding vows.....

     

I MEANT to also say, I think it's very sweet and significant that TPTB left this admission in the episode. They and Andi are letting Nick know that he was F1 since Belgium.

[SueSt]

I watched Des' season (only episodes online) this year, few weeks ago, so take it as bias opinion all you want ... I found the story between Des & Brooks over-played ... If that can be the right word? ... I actually believe TPTB shows us pretty much what there is, like it is, I don't think they actually show you something that isn't there ... but they do put more in-front, evidence it, highlight  the part that would lead audience make their deductions ... that could be wrong (and they are counting on it).
They use the great power of affirmation ... by choosing specific words for certain people ... they sell us a story, they sell us the image, they sell us the characters. Of course like in every fictional TV show, characters are more likely black&white defined (usually because of lack of time and for the purpose of creating the interest) ... good vs. bad ... but they show every character enough to make you relate to them, to sympathize, to empathize, to care (for each their own). The edit then does the trick in playing with our emotions once we are invested.
With Brooks, as I understood, they promoted him heavily, for most-likely being F1, just the same as it is happening with Josh. They showed the gushing and blushing of Des over Brooks, they kept showing us, what I call, superficial chemistry, that, mind me, there could had been more, I never dismiss that we don't see it all, but for a 'good foundation' kind of story, they didn't show us the real "pearl" of that relationship. There was no mutual growth, there was no real "laying the base" for giving us any insight, that that relationship could work IRL. I could see that with Chris they were showing us all of that. At the end Des, if Des would have picked Brooks, if he wouldn't have walked away, there would have been this common understanding that she just liked Brooks more. Fine. But then the edit (hypothetically speaking) would have to change ... it would make no sense to show us the relationship between Des and Chris in such a depth (note, although I didn't pay attention that good to the words, I don't recall her ever using 'too strong', 'significantly heavy' words for Chris, or am I wrong?) ... Can you follow me? ...

so now ... comparing the edit with this season ... I see the frontrunner, as far as screen time and alone-with-Andi time, in Nick ... they are showing him to us, to make us pull sides, to maybe gives us enough of information to "understand this guy", who feels like fish out of water in this "fictitious environment" ... at the same time, they are not promoting him, they aren't putting his face on the adds/TVshows, they haven't showed us the intro video, the media dismisses him as one who would have any chance with Andi ... the advertisement going around for months (even before the show started - which I wasn't even aware of) is screaming Josh=F1.

The edit of the show is giving both guys equal chance. They both ... if you "buy the words" that Andi says ... have their qualities and their faults ... and then ... there are problems ... those problems that the audience always needs, for the purpose of own personal resolution, like in Greek comedy (or tragedy if you'd like) - catharsis.
Every story has its own end. The closure. The enlightenment.

(Are you still following me? - I know I'm jumping from one issue to another.)

So ... we concluded:
Nick is shown frontrunner. Josh is F1 in all of the promotion going on.

Now for Nick ... the words and image that TPTB is giving us goes like this:
BY ANDI: he is sincere, genuine, sweet MAN, serious (I would add ... in his intentions ... for god's sake, do people really buy that Nick is so serious that cannot joke or laugh? - and to answer my own question - yes, there are people, who believe that Nick doesn't have humor), intense
word associations: passion, mental connection
BY THE EDIT: he is manipulative ("When will she see it?"), strategic ("How cool it's gonna be when he doesn't see it coming"), arrogant ("someone needs to put him down"), d*bag ("everything comes around"), snake - over confidant ("and it's gonna bite him in the ass")
word associations: not there for right reasons, insincere
BY majority of PUBLIC created by social pages and media: creep, s. killer, ugly, I won't continue.

Nick has not only 1 problem, but 2, 3, 4, 5!:

his major: IS HE there for the right reasons?
We see him say ILY, hear him ask permission for daughter's hand ...
but! ... Will he actually propose?
If he doesn't come to the proposal, meaning, if she lets him go before he has a chance to propose, how will we know how serious was he?
And all the voices I wrote in the brackets above would not get their own satisfaction.
He has to get down on 1 knee. And then get it. (whatever the verdict)

his 2. problem (all for the story, if you believe it):
he is serious, not so goofy & fun and easy going as Josh (because remember, they want us to compare these two), he doesn't bond well with others.
So the last date ... that jeep ride and lake/lagoon swim ... sounds like adventure kind of fun to me?
Interestingly enough, they hide the HTD time with friends and the happy-hour before meeting the family for dinner. They post online extra-deleted scene with him and Brian, where Nick tries his sarcastic joke and it backfires ... they take the video down.

Problem n.3:
His family is more concerned about his heartbreak than whether Nick & Andi are right for each other.
Hmmm ... where should I start on this one?
1) I think they don't need to question A&N FIT, if they had a conversation with Nick and see him act in certain way ... I think his family knows him best and knows that if he is convinced, there must be a reason.
2) I did hear his dad ask Andi to have a private talk with her, I think I saw a scene (in a split second) of her talking with 2 of Nick's sisters, answering questions about "mutual connection and common ground for a future relationship", I think we all saw Bella's list of questions ... so ... I repeat... Really?

The point of this problem ... was to lead us to a bigger issue (and Sharleen in her blog wrote it much better) ... and back to the problem n.1 ... Nick's sincerity.
How does he explain his past to Andi? Why does he view it one way, when his family tells a different story.
- Lets just say. Case closes.
Nick said it all: it was embarrassing, bruised ego, over-romanticized relationship, learned from it all, got his clarity later on.

N.4 problem:
not enough of that physical connection ... You know what they say about Chemistry!?
The one part of their relationship that TPTB downplayed ... not that it was hidden ... just not enough emphasized, since that was reserved for Josh.
But who can forget all those touches, kisses, that feel like they are breathing eachother's air.
But no ... put it down on paper people! Nick is not that good looking for any woman to want him that badly. (you do know those are not my personal thoughts)

At the end ... the issue n.5 lingers:
Is he ready? Ready and prepared to open his heart again, be vulnerable, with a possibility of getting hurt again (not just by being rejected, but even later ... you know, there is no certainty in life)? Is he committed to be with only 1 woman, this woman, stubborn and demanding, bitchy at times and ambitious (and no, these are not insults)?
He says he is ... there is that mental connection ... that helps him sooth Andi's soul, when tension runs high, when disagreements arise, he knows her, she knows him, he understand her, she understands him, he feels what she feels, ... oh, this is getting cheesy!
So lets put him on the test ... when it stares you right in the face ...
what you gonna do?

So ... my question ... if you remember what was written about Des-Chris "relationship build" ...

Why would TPTB put so much effort and time to go in such a detail, to portray their relationship more than one-dimensional, more than just one-problem-one-solution kind of story?

But first thing first ... it's Andi's decision. So girl, pull that trigger!

Lots of strong doubt plot devices here Lucky... but the biggest clue is all the time TPTB spend developing Nick's story!!   

[unknown82]

Can I just say I love that Andi was on the same page as Nick at the end of the Dinant date... dreaming about marriage.  

"And I do see that possibility of him standing at the very end...I do."

And her statement anticipates her wedding vows.....

     

I MEANT to also say, I think it's very sweet and significant that TPTB left this admission in the episode.  They and Andi are letting Nick know that he was F1 since Belgium.  

  I believe she started her shout outs to Nick in France with the polka dot tea cup.   That whole scene with Chris Harrison was very suspect.  It really looked like Andi was sending a message to Nick.  Ahh I can't wait for ATFR. These two are just meant for each other!

[nutty1]

I think Josh may have favored something early also.

[Guest]

I think Josh may have favored something early also.

Thank you Nutty, you might preserve my sanity after all.

My best guess is that they get their phones back regardless, and of course have some down time to get on SM again.

  

[Guest]

Repost.
A Veiled/Vialled Season. To hide the obvious in the plain sight. To hide the Elephant in the Room   

The Veiled Banner. Credit : notarose

[unknown82]

Is this a coincidence?  


Nicholas Viall ‪@viallnicholas28‬
Jul 13
Nothing I enjoy more than the company of people who challenge the way I view the world ‪#grow



Donnie ‏‪@chi_citygrl‬ Jul 14
‪#grow   ‪pic.twitter.com/1FbsyHYuyr


Maybe the letter was from Nick to Andi and he wants to say he has moved on and is happy.

Now I'm depressing myself -  must. stop. sleuthing.  NO MORE SM sleuthing for me!  Someone hold me to this.  Please.    

Honestly, this show is not worth you getting depressed over if Nick is not picked.  If by some chance he is the F2 and he wrote the letter telling Andi he has moved on and is doing good then all the better, right?  That means he got out of the Bach bubble and realized his feelings for Andi weren't as strong as he thought.  However, I still believe Nick is F1.  Hang in there Karmagirl, 5 more days, you can do this!

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