Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 8 - HTDs - Jul 07/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion Thread #2

[stuckinsc]

The issue I have is Josh stated he "quit baseball so he could have a family."  He then said in the next sentence that "he hasn't dated in 5 years."  You have to date to have the family, that you quit baseball for.  It doesn't make sense.  I don't think Josh is a bad person at all, but there are some red flags.

Agreed.  the whole I haven't dated in 5 years is so weird to me.

What's just as weird to me is "helping/supporting someone get through college." 
What does this mean? I can't even fathom it. Go to class with them? Take notes? Exams? Tutor them? Go through sorority/fraternity rush and hazing? Go to purple passion parties? 
Please. If you end up living in Athens and working great, certainly no issues, but to say you are there to keep your sibs on the straight and narrow makes them sound like delinquents which I am sure they were not.  

I actually think he wanted to get to know his siblings again, and when Aaron went to UGA it let him also try to walk on and play football like he always wanted to and Momma Murray wouldn't let him.

If both parents went through cancer during this five years, he might have been emotional support too.

[soccermom]

Along with the family issues is the fact that playing any Division 1 sport is time consuming, intellectually, emotionally and physically draining. Add to that the pressures of being the star quarterback and I can see how having someone in your corner that you can trust would be incredibly valuable. When people reach that level of success many people are just trying to get a piece of them or ride their coattails. I would guess that having Josh in Athens was a great help to Aaron.

[Kashathediva]

Agreed.  the whole I haven't dated in 5 years is so weird to me.

What's just as weird to me is "helping/supporting someone get through college." 
What does this mean? I can't even fathom it. Go to class with them? Take notes? Exams? Tutor them? Go through sorority/fraternity rush and hazing? Go to purple passion parties? 
Please. If you end up living in Athens and working great, certainly no issues, but to say you are there to keep your sibs on the straight and narrow makes them sound like delinquents which I am sure they were not.  

I actually think he wanted to get to know his siblings again, and when Aaron went to UGA it let him also try to walk on and play football like he always wanted to  and Momma Murray wouldn't let him.

If both parents went through cancer during this five years, he might have been emotional support too.

I agree with all you have said above. That's wonderful and admirable.
I just don't think it paints one into being a saint or sacrificial lamb. Those are the things most of us(IMO) would do for family under stress. Obviously, one can not do those things if they are enrolled in med school across the country or something similar, but offering family support is what being a part of a family is all about.

[FLChica]

The issue I have is Josh stated he "quit baseball so he could have a family."  He then said in the next sentence that "he hasn't dated in 5 years."  You have to date to have the family, that you quit baseball for.  It doesn't make sense.  I don't think Josh is a bad person at all, but there are some red flags.

Agreed.  the whole I haven't dated in 5 years is so weird to me.

What's just as weird to me is "helping/supporting someone get through college." 
What does this mean? I can't even fathom it. Go to class with them? Take notes? Exams? Tutor them? Go through sorority/fraternity rush and hazing? Go to purple passion parties? 
Please. If you end up living in Athens and working great, certainly no issues, but to say you are there to keep your sibs on the straight and narrow makes them sound like delinquents which I am sure they were not.  
I'm not trying to diminish illness, but many families go through similar situations and worse and don't make it out like one is a sacrificial lamb.  He may have many great qualities, I just don't see this puts him in line with sainthood. JMO

Just a few facts and a bit of a timeline...

Mrs. Murray's brain tumor was treated with chemotherapy in 2003.  

Josh quits baseball Fall 2007.  

Josh enrolls at Georgia in August 2009 with brother Aaron.  

Stephanie enrolls at Georgia in August 2011.

Mr. Murray diagnosed with thyroid cancer October 2012.  At this time Josh had already graduated from Georgia and was working for his current employer in Athens, GA.

The facts as noted indicate that Josh would not qualify for sainthood on the basis of selflessly moving to / attending UGA with his younger siblings to provide emotional support during their father's illness.  It simply didn't happen that way.

[pander3575]

The one thing I am glad about is that the story line for him isn't about being a sacrificial lamb. Remember how they kept bringing up Chris L's mother and he quit his job teaching in NYC and moved back home. I admired him for that but they just do it over and over again like Josh being an jock.

[Guest]

Which Josh never claimed, the fans did.

[nutty1]

My heart goes out to Josh and his family for having to endure both parents having cancer. I lost my dad to it when I was 17. My son's girlfriend lost her both patents to it within 2 years and she is only 24.
Josh isn't my favorite contestant (I have nothing against him), but it's an awful thing to go through. Both of them surviving it and apparently doing well has probably brought them closer as a family and also more faithful.

[cindebugg]

I would like to ask what about Josh makes him seem like an unrealistic choice for Andi if she wants her fairy tale ending and happily ever after?  Just because Josh hasn't been in a committed relationship in the last 5 years or so, or engaged and then a broken engagement, that doesn't mean that he doesn't know what a committed relationship is and looks like or what a happy and good marriage looks like.  He only has to look at his parents for that.  He has a great family relationship, seems to be extremely loyal and supportive of those he loves and has a protective nature as well.  He and Andi seem to have so much in common with which to further build their relationship upon, and like all relationships/marriages, it will have ups and downs, hurdles to overcome, compromise, etc.  Based upon what they both grew up with, they have parents whose marriages have so far stood the test of time.  No doubt that at times all hasn't been rosy there either.  

There is nothing wrong with Josh.  For me Andi's doubt about Josh is the problem.  If it goes away on the FD great, if not then I don't think she should pick him, if it comes to the last week and something inside her still says that she isn't trusting him.

Nick and Josh are both great guys and whoever ends up with either guy will be lucky.  I personally like the Andi I see around Nick better than the Andi I see around Josh.

I do see Andi and Josh's strong personality having lots of fights.  They will either learn to work through that or they won't.  

I will try to support whichever couple comes out of this show.

In some ways it is what Des said, she got what she needed, not necessarily what she wanted.  I think if you asked her now, it is both what she wants and needs, but her first instinct and perfect got it perfect guy was not the one she needed.  

Someone can be both what you want and need, but sometimes not.

I look at The Bachelorette the same way I look at Big Brother. If you just watch the show you get The Producer's story the live feeds are where the real story is. Oh Man, Live feeds for this show would be a blast.

Since we don't have live feeds we sleuth and the sleuthing I've done this year gives me the feeling that Andi's doubts about Josh are greatly exaggerated. I'm sure there was some doubt in the beginning but I would guess there's doubt about all of them. I think she was grilling Josh so much because that's where her interest was and he didn't have a problem with that up until the lie detector test. There's where the doubt came in as witnessed by her total meltdown about the fairytale not being true. Funny that scene wasn't shown in the final edit. All the rest of this doubt she has is just the storyline to get to the end. That girl is all in and by the look of devastation on her face during her lie detector PI's she's been all in for awhile.

[Piper61]

I would like to ask what about Josh makes him seem like an unrealistic choice for Andi if she wants her fairy tale ending and happily ever after?  Just because Josh hasn't been in a committed relationship in the last 5 years or so, or engaged and then a broken engagement, that doesn't mean that he doesn't know what a committed relationship is and looks like or what a happy and good marriage looks like.  He only has to look at his parents for that.  He has a great family relationship, seems to be extremely loyal and supportive of those he loves and has a protective nature as well.  He and Andi seem to have so much in common with which to further build their relationship upon, and like all relationships/marriages, it will have ups and downs, hurdles to overcome, compromise, etc.  Based upon what they both grew up with, they have parents whose marriages have so far stood the test of time.  No doubt that at times all hasn't been rosy there either.  

There is nothing wrong with Josh.  For me Andi's doubt about Josh is the problem.  If it goes away on the FD great, if not then I don't think she should pick him, if it comes to the last week and something inside her still says that she isn't trusting him.

Nick and Josh are both great guys and whoever ends up with either guy will be lucky.  I personally like the Andi I see around Nick better than the Andi I see around Josh.

I do see Andi and Josh's strong personality having lots of fights.  They will either learn to work through that or they won't.  

I will try to support whichever couple comes out of this show.

In some ways it is what Des said, she got what she needed, not necessarily what she wanted.  I think if you asked her now, it is both what she wants and needs, but her first instinct and perfect got it perfect guy was not the one she needed.  

Someone can be both what you want and need, but sometimes not.

I look at The Bachelorette the same way I look at Big Brother.  If you just watch the show you get The Producer's story the live feeds are where the real story is.  Oh Man, Live feeds for this show would be a blast.

Since we don't have live feeds we sleuth and the sleuthing I've done this year gives me the feeling that Andi's doubts about Josh are greatly exaggerated.  I'm sure there was some doubt in the beginning but I would guess there's doubt about all of them.  I think she was grilling Josh so much because that's where her interest was and he didn't have a problem with that up until the lie detector test.  There's where the doubt came in as witnessed by her total meltdown about the fairytale not being true.  Funny that scene wasn't shown in the final edit.    All the rest of this doubt she has is just the storyline to get to the end.  That girl is all in and by the look of devastation on her face during her lie detector PI's she's been all in for awhile.

   Good post! I would be all in on Bachelorette Live Feeds!    I'd also be jobless then, and my house would be a total wreck for the duration.

[Piper61]

My heart goes out to Josh and his family for having to endure both parents having cancer. I lost my dad to it when I was 17. My son's girlfriend lost her both patents to it within 2 years and she is only 24.
Josh isn't my favorite contestant (I have nothing against him), but it's an awful thing to go through. Both of them surviving it and apparently doing well has probably brought them closer as a family and also more faithful.

   Nice post, nutty.

[Ash2214]

I don't see how anyone has tried to make Josh out as a saint or what have you. Many people, including many posters here, have essentially said it was weird that Josh hadn't dated in five years or that he followed his younger siblings to the same college among other things. Just like those particular posters have the right to post their opinions, other posters have just responded by stating both of his parents had cancer and he's older by six and eight years than his two siblings. Obviously it's apparent he decided he wanted to take a strong role in their lives and be there for them in many different aspects. It has nothing to do with his baseball career (which some people really keep going back to, thanks to the edit) but it's more so just being a good guy. I think any person, like some have stated, who had two parents go through cancer would do. It's obviously brought them extremely close as a family and something I admire and can connect with because my family is similar.

[Piper61]

Which Josh never claimed, the fans did.

Are we talking about sainthood because I am confused on where that notion came about.

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