Bachelorette 10: Edit-Storyline - *SPOILERS* - should we bother? Oooohhhh... why not? part 2

^^good insights, remockered. thanks!  

Ash2214 wrote:I remember on Sean and Lindsay's first 1-on-1 towards the end of it Sean said something along the lines of - With Lindsay it's like I've got my best friend on one side and the love of my life on the other and I don't know if that can be beat. I also remember he wrote in one of his blogs that Lindsay was running away with his heart. I couldn't believe it, but look how that turned out. The leads need to act a certain way and say certain things. And this is not to say the leads don't care about their F2 because they obviously do. I'm more so just saying that the end of all of this, the real, outside of the bubble stuff counts the most.

CH once admitted that there is an "unwritten" understanding (i.e. something not in their contract but clearly articulated by the producers) of how a lead should "play along" with the production so as to have a "good" show. Most leads do play along, some don't (Juan Pablo's season comes to mind - and look how that turned out). Some of the leads that I've felt made an effort to work with the producers to make a good show were Ashley (even though she blogged during the season she didn't think she was very good because she didn't think she was a very good actress), Sean and Andi. Isn't it kind of ironic that Eric Hill called Andi out for being an actress (which she took great umbrage to) when in fact that's exactly what she was hired to do?

The more you watch this show the more you will see lines and phrases (in blogs and in ITMs) repeated season after season. "I could see myself marrying XXXXX" or "I could see my future with XXXXX" doesn't mean that they DO see that future; only that they COULD, but probably don't. It's all about creating the perception in the eyes of viewers that there is conflict and uncertainty and a distinct possibility that F3 or F2 could actually be F1 and that F1 could actually not be F1 at all. Most of that probably needs to be filtered out, especially if it's the sort of thing that gets repeated season after season which makes it easier to identify what words the show has put in the lead's mouth.

Lucas15 wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:I remember on Sean and Lindsay's first 1-on-1 towards the end of it Sean said something along the lines of - With Lindsay it's like I've got my best friend on one side and the love of my life on the other and I don't know if that can be beat. I also remember he wrote in one of his blogs that Lindsay was running away with his heart. I couldn't believe it, but look how that turned out. The leads need to act a certain way and say certain things. And this is not to say the leads don't care about their F2 because they obviously do. I'm more so just saying that the end of all of this, the real, outside of the bubble stuff counts the most.

CH once admitted that there is an "unwritten" understanding (i.e. something not in their contract but clearly articulated by the producers) of how a lead should "play along" with the production so as to have a "good" show. Most leads do play along, some don't (Juan Pablo's season comes to mind - and look how that turned out). Some of the leads that I've felt made an effort to work with the producers to make a good show were Ashley (even though she blogged during the season she didn't think she was very good because she didn't think she was a very good actress), Sean and Andi. Isn't it kind of ironic that Eric Hill called Andi out for being an actress (which she took great umbrage to) when in fact that's exactly what she was hired to do?

The more you watch this show the more you will see lines and phrases (in blogs and in ITMs) repeated season after season. "I could see myself marrying XXXXX" or "I could see my future with XXXXX" doesn't mean that they DO see that future; only that they COULD, but probably don't. It's all about creating the perception in the eyes of viewers that there is conflict and uncertainty and a distinct possibility that F3 or F2 could actually be F1 and that F1 could actually not be F1 at all. Most of that probably needs to be filtered out, especially if it's the sort of thing that gets repeated season after season which makes it easier to identify what words the show has put in the lead's mouth.

I do hear certain phrases season after season and always felt the leads were prompted to say that.

gabriele wrote:i don't think nick or josh has had a very good edit. nick fumbles and bumbles his words when nervous while alternating with acting super confident and josh talks a mile a minute and is a bit hyper when nervous. maybe they spiked their water or they are both just nervous around andi the ADA. haha. it's probably that ADA quality that has them on edge. she really hasn't opened up much at all but is constantly digging with these guys to get to the bottom of her suspicions about them.

F1 guys often don't get "great" edits, which is why they are not Next Bachelor. Once "off the market" and no longer recyclable, the Fleiss editors simply show them "warts and all" so the Bachelor/ette can get a REAL taste of what (s)he is getting post-show. These two do have surprisingly similar edits in that both are competitive, both involved in drama (although most of Josh's was in episode #3 with Andrew), obsessed with (and constantly talking about) The Rose, fuss when others have dates (even Josh "bleeped" when Marcus got called in Brussels despite also getting a date), are too uber-confident they are winning Andi, get her "I must dig deeper" line a lot as if they may be potential criminals and both love to over-analyze the others as "strategists" even if Nick is the only one labeled as such.

With "too domesticated for her tastes" Chris, Marcus and Brian out of the picture, I kinda view this simply as a battle between Fric & Frac. However, I must confess being partial to seeing Nick "win" for three reasons:
1.) to FINALLY see a great many posters get "weaned" off of The Spoilers since they will be wrong again
2.) Nick is getting roasted the most and deserves "something" at the end of this, even if everybody debates whether or not "MeeeAndi" is much of a prize. Although there are some very "dumb" posters who label Josh as a "dumb jock", it is obvious that if he "loses", he will still come out of this Smelling Like A Rose. All Of America will still LUV him despite his wonky edit.
3.) also, despite all of his crocodile tears, Nick talks a lot slower and seems more methodical about this silly process than Josh, who I sometimes worry may turn blue from lack of oxygen.

What is still fascinating to me is how Chris Harrison repeatedly defends Nick in his blogs and views his relationship as the one Andi "aspires to", while Josh is the "comfort zone that hasn't worked in the past". He has made subtle jabs going back to his "ones to watch" preview ("Former pro baseball player ... Is he coming all around the world only to realize what he was looking for was 10 minutes down the road?"). Nick wasn't discussed at all on MTA, while Josh was in the "hot seat" over the silly lie detector test.

On the surface, this seems like Nick is the winner a.k.a. Courtney style, since Harrison also defended her quite a bit. Yet I still suspect she chooses Josh and Harrison will simply give the happy couple that "look". Also bring up the lie detector test results... again. Harrison pretends he has no "stake" in the outcome of each season, but you know he is not afraid to flaunt his opinions.

Lucas15 wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:I remember on Sean and Lindsay's first 1-on-1 towards the end of it Sean said something along the lines of - With Lindsay it's like I've got my best friend on one side and the love of my life on the other and I don't know if that can be beat. I also remember he wrote in one of his blogs that Lindsay was running away with his heart. I couldn't believe it, but look how that turned out. The leads need to act a certain way and say certain things. And this is not to say the leads don't care about their F2 because they obviously do. I'm more so just saying that the end of all of this, the real, outside of the bubble stuff counts the most.

CH once admitted that there is an "unwritten" understanding (i.e. something not in their contract but clearly articulated by the producers) of how a lead should "play along" with the production so as to have a "good" show. Most leads do play along, some don't (Juan Pablo's season comes to mind - and look how that turned out). Some of the leads that I've felt made an effort to work with the producers to make a good show were Ashley (even though she blogged during the season she didn't think she was very good because she didn't think she was a very good actress), Sean and Andi. Isn't it kind of ironic that Eric Hill called Andi out for being an actress (which she took great umbrage to) when in fact that's exactly what she was hired to do?

The more you watch this show the more you will see lines and phrases (in blogs and in ITMs) repeated season after season. "I could see myself marrying XXXXX" or "I could see my future with XXXXX" doesn't mean that they DO see that future; only that they COULD, but probably don't. It's all about creating the perception in the eyes of viewers that there is conflict and uncertainty and a distinct possibility that F3 or F2 could actually be F1 and that F1 could actually not be F1 at all. Most of that probably needs to be filtered out, especially if it's the sort of thing that gets repeated season after season which makes it easier to identify what words the show has put in the lead's mouth.

Great post!    Outside the bubble and irl counts the most. This is why social media is providing so many clues now. Following social media allows the viewer, if they pay attention and they know where to look, to see the storyboard play out.

So true. The show can show whatever it wants but thanks to sm, we can really stalk these folks now and see what's going on after the show. And really this season sm has been as good or better than the show IMO.

JBF wrote:

gabriele wrote:i don't think nick or josh has had a very good edit. nick fumbles and bumbles his words when nervous while alternating with acting super confident and josh talks a mile a minute and is a bit hyper when nervous. maybe they spiked their water or they are both just nervous around andi the ADA. haha. it's probably that ADA quality that has them on edge. she really hasn't opened up much at all but is constantly digging with these guys to get to the bottom of her suspicions about them.

F1 guys often don't get "great" edits, which is why they are not Next Bachelor. Once "off the market" and no longer recyclable, the Fleiss editors simply show them "warts and all" so the Bachelor/ette can get a REAL taste of what (s)he is getting post-show. These two do have surprisingly similar edits in that both are competitive, both involved in drama (although most of Josh's was in episode #3 with Andrew), obsessed with (and constantly talking about) The Rose, fuss when others have dates (even Josh "bleeped" when Marcus got called in Brussels despite also getting a date), are too uber-confident they are winning Andi, get her "I must dig deeper" line a lot as if they may be potential criminals and both love to over-analyze the others as "strategists" even if Nick is the only one labeled as such.



With "too domesticated for her tastes" Chris, Marcus and Brian out of the picture, I kinda view this simply as a battle between Fric & Frac. However, I must confess being partial to seeing Nick "win" for three reasons:
1.) to FINALLY see a great many posters get "weaned" off of The Spoilers since they will be wrong again
2.) Nick is getting roasted the most and deserves "something" at the end of this, even if everybody debates whether or not "MeeeAndi" is much of a prize. Although there are some very "dumb" posters who label Josh as a "dumb jock", it is obvious that if he "loses", he will still come out of this Smelling Like A Rose. All Of America will still LUV him despite his wonky edit.
3.) also, despite all of his crocodile tears, Nick talks a lot slower and seems more methodical about this silly process than Josh, who I sometimes worry may turn blue from lack of oxygen.

What is still fascinating to me is how Chris Harrison repeatedly defends Nick in his blogs and views his relationship as the one Andi "aspires to", while Josh is the "comfort zone that hasn't worked in the past". He has made subtle jabs going back to his "ones to watch" preview ("Former pro baseball player ... Is he coming all around the world only to realize what he was looking for was 10 minutes down the road?"). Nick wasn't discussed at all on MTA, while Josh was in the "hot seat" over the silly lie detector test.

On the surface, this seems like Nick is the winner a.k.a. Courtney style, since Harrison also defended her quite a bit. Yet I still suspect she chooses Josh and Harrison will simply give the happy couple that "look". Also bring up the lie detector test results... again. Harrison pretends he has no "stake" in the outcome of each season, but you know he is not afraid to flaunt his opinions.

I think that Catherine got a similar "opinion" from Chris H as Josh.  He did not talk about her favorably.  Also Sean said very sweet romantic things about both Lindsay and Catherine.  It did make you wonder who Sean chose.  If you did not read spoilers you would wonder about the end.  Since the big foiler on Des's season it still makes us wonder about this season, especially if you do not know about this site!

Sean's hometown visits stood out for me, with Catherine and Desiree's as the "troubled" ones. Of course, Catherine's were all fussed about in voice-over. Once you turned the volume off, you could see Sean was quite happy and content in Seattle.

This season, it seemed like Josh's was the only really "troubled" hometown. They threw every "red flag" at us, including the prospect that he may ignore her each time Aaron or Sabel is around.

soccermom333 wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:My very first season watching was Sean's (I know, late to the game) and I wasn't big into spoilers because I didn't know much about them. I remember on Sean and Lindsay's first 1-on-1 towards the end of it Sean said something along the lines of - With Lindsay it's like I've got my best friend on one side and the love of my life on the other and I don't know if that can be beat. I also remember he wrote in one of his blogs that Lindsay was running away with his heart. I couldn't believe it, but look how that turned out. The leads need to act a certain way and say certain things. And this is not to say the leads don't care about their F2 because they obviously do. I'm more so just saying that the end of all of this, the real, outside of the bubble stuff counts the most.

Great thoughts Ash!!  

You both are right both Sean and Andi have been very good at being the lead exactly the way that MF wants a lead to act.

KarmaGirl wrote:I saw a photo of Josh at the airport when he returned from Cancun.  But was there one when he came back from the DR?  Thanks again.  Sorry I just can't nail this fact down.  

Since I can't bring the pictures over from RS' site I will tell you that there are two pictures of Josh arriving at customs at the Miami airport May 12th. He was on American Airlines Flight 2468 from Punta Cana, DR arriving at 4:10 PM.

Can I ask a question, I could probably answer myself by reading threads I haven't studied well enough over the season.

For the "Nick has F1 Edit" supporters. A question. What is the "doubt" theme he has at this Eve of Finale stage of the story arc.

Josh has Too Good to Be True, and Andi Repeating Mistakes of the Past (which actually in real life don't fit him, but that's the story).

What has been presented (i.e., by way of STORY, not what "really happened") for Nick ... the only doubt I heard in his story was something about "too much passion" which is not a real doubt. (in the Land of Storyboarding, anyway)

I am probably missing something.

You can't be F1 without Eve of Finale Doubt in Your Story.

Also, as storyboarding (again) goes, in his Eve of Finale Story he does have the I Love You Because scene at the tree after dinner, but mostly he's all "I'm going to marry you" over and over. Which feels F2 to me.

jlccaz wrote:Can I ask a question, I could probably answer myself by reading threads I haven't studied well enough over the season.

For the "Nick has F1 Edit" supporters.  A question.  What is the "doubt" theme he has at this Eve of Finale stage of the story arc.  

Josh has Too Good to Be True, and Andi Repeating Mistakes of the Past (which actually in real life don't fit him, but that's the story).

What has been presented (i.e., by way of STORY, not what "really happened") for Nick ... the only doubt I heard in his story was something about "too much passion" which is not a real doubt.  (in the Land of Storyboarding, anyway)

I am probably missing something.  

You can't be F1 without Eve of Finale Doubt in Your Story.

Also, as storyboarding (again) goes, in his Eve of Finale Story he does have the I Love You Because scene at the tree after dinner, but mostly he's all "I'm going to marry you" over and over. Which feels F2 to me.

While I do believe there are things in Nick's edit that indicate he could be F1, I agree I can't put my finger on his overall "doubt" edit. I feel like he has had a lot of small doubt arcs, but they all were addressed quickly i.e. skeptism, "am I seeing who Nick really is", "honesty and telling the truth about his breakups and how he dealt with it, the ILY etc.

Although in some seasons would doesn't the doubt sometimes get introduced in the finale (i.e. JASH - Ash's sister, Emily and Jef - Ricki?) and based on the press release the only thing I can think of that would fit would be the meeting the parents going off on a rough start because he is so nervous...