Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 Contestant - Spoilers - Discussion - Thread #2

[atem]

She might have told Nick she changed her mind at the last minute, but that doesn't make that the truth. Who knows what the leads tell themselves to make themselves feel better about literally lying and manipulating the dopes that get dumped in the end.

[notarose]

Has Chloe heard any inside scoop about the video or thoughts of it? Chloe, where are you??

I feel like everything I see on the show only further reaffirms what I've been said after the FRC(about Nick being realistic and skeptic and Andi trying her hardest to reassure him (and his fam), etc..(I mean she even said so herself in this week's episode.. that she wants "to make him a believer" etc..)) As far as I know the vid is legit.

Thanks Chloep, I thought I was remembering correctly....

Thanks Chloep for sharing the info you heard.

I understand what your saying however the premise is illogical to me. By that I mean, what purpose is there to her trying to reassure him if she then willing accepts Josh's proposal a week after Nick's HTD.  The only thing I can think of is that she enjoyed the challenge of trying to covert his way of thinking.  I would only see logic in this if she didn't get engaged to anyone.

The dinner conversation you are referring to from epi 3 was followed by his definitely committing to an attempt at exploring a relationship with her as seen in epi 4.  Every season participants have concerns: scepticism, inability to deal with the lead building relations with others, too little time to be sure of their feelings, etc. She admitted to her own scepticism on her 1-1 with Nick so one would think she would be empathetic rather than emphatic.  Besides, her own father was sceptical at HTD stating "come back when she's the only one".  Well.

I'm not seeing her focus on his scepticism in the process as coming from a caring place. She could have put more value on the man than on the process.  In fact, it appears he was justified in his scepticism if the spoilers are correct - be she engaged to Josh or someone else.

Well, that's the point of the vid too... Nick was, by his own admission, completely caught off guard.
And her reassuring him will be a reoccurring theme(from what I've been told), we will def. see more of that.

Or she could have been truly torn between the two and decided that it would be easier to pick the one who lived in her city.

I don't believe you can be truly torn and get engaged to someone on the same day or even a few days after.  In Epi 1, when Andi is talking with her parents, Hy says that when she brings the final 2 guys to meet them he feels she should be certain that only one of the guys is her pick.  Foreshadowing, me thinks.

[Cecilia]

Has Chloe heard any inside scoop about the video or thoughts of it? Chloe, where are you??

I feel like everything I see on the show only further reaffirms what I've been said after the FRC(about Nick being realistic and skeptic and Andi trying her hardest to reassure him (and his fam), etc..(I mean she even said so herself in this week's episode.. that she wants "to make him a believer" etc..)) As far as I know the vid is legit.

Thanks Chloep, I thought I was remembering correctly....

Thanks Chloep for sharing the info you heard.

I understand what your saying however the premise is illogical to me. By that I mean, what purpose is there to her trying to reassure him if she then willing accepts Josh's proposal a week after Nick's HTD.  The only thing I can think of is that she enjoyed the challenge of trying to covert his way of thinking.  I would only see logic in this if she didn't get engaged to anyone.

The dinner conversation you are referring to from epi 3 was followed by his definitely committing to an attempt at exploring a relationship with her as seen in epi 4.  Every season participants have concerns: scepticism, inability to deal with the lead building relations with others, too little time to be sure of their feelings, etc. She admitted to her own scepticism on her 1-1 with Nick so one would think she would be empathetic rather than emphatic.  Besides, her own father was sceptical at HTD stating "come back when she's the only one".  Well.

I'm not seeing her focus on his scepticism in the process as coming from a caring place. She could have put more value on the man than on the process.  In fact, it appears he was justified in his scepticism if the spoilers are correct - be she engaged to Josh or someone else.

Well, that's the point of the vid too... Nick was, by his own admission, completely caught off guard.
And her reassuring him will be a reoccurring theme(from what I've been told), we will def. see more of that.

Or she could have been truly torn between the two and decided that it would be easier to pick the one who lived in her city.

I don't believe you can be truly torn and get engaged to someone on the same day or even a few days after.  In Epi 1, when Andi is talking with her parents, Hy says that when she brings the final 2 guys to meet them he feels she should be certain that only one of the guys is her pick.  Foreshadowing, me thinks.

Regarding the bold: this is almost exactly what Des did. The relationship grows post show.

[Kashathediva]

So in other words, Andi did a really good job of leading Nick on!    Dare we call her a good actress??

Maybe it was like Nick said, she did change her mind at the last minute. Maybe she changed it because:

- She realized she loved Josh (or Marcus or Chris or even Cody, who knowws )
- She was scared sh!tless and picked "what she is used to option"
- She was scared that he wasn't "all in"

If this happened then she wasn't really leading him on

Or maybe the script was always for her to pick Josh, after JPG season they needed a happily ever after, this was the producer's shot.

Or maybe it was gameover from the start with one of the other guys (Josh, Marcus or Chris) and Nick was just a plot point.

There are a lot of maybes and what ifs, I am going to wait and see what happens on air and post show to reserve judgement at this time. All IMO of course  

I agree. All appear to have validity!

[dw_a_mom]

Has Chloe heard any inside scoop about the video or thoughts of it? Chloe, where are you??

I feel like everything I see on the show only further reaffirms what I've been said after the FRC(about Nick being realistic and skeptic and Andi trying her hardest to reassure him (and his fam), etc..(I mean she even said so herself in this week's episode.. that she wants "to make him a believer" etc..)) As far as I know the vid is legit.

Thanks Chloep, I thought I was remembering correctly....

Thanks Chloep for sharing the info you heard.

I understand what your saying however the premise is illogical to me. By that I mean, what purpose is there to her trying to reassure him if she then willing accepts Josh's proposal a week after Nick's HTD.  The only thing I can think of is that she enjoyed the challenge of trying to covert his way of thinking.  I would only see logic in this if she didn't get engaged to anyone.

The dinner conversation you are referring to from epi 3 was followed by his definitely committing to an attempt at exploring a relationship with her as seen in epi 4.  Every season participants have concerns: scepticism, inability to deal with the lead building relations with others, too little time to be sure of their feelings, etc. She admitted to her own scepticism on her 1-1 with Nick so one would think she would be empathetic rather than emphatic.  Besides, her own father was sceptical at HTD stating "come back when she's the only one".  Well.

I'm not seeing her focus on his scepticism in the process as coming from a caring place. She could have put more value on the man than on the process.  In fact, it appears he was justified in his scepticism if the spoilers are correct - be she engaged to Josh or someone else.

Well, that's the point of the vid too... Nick was, by his own admission, completely caught off guard.
And her reassuring him will be a reoccurring theme(from what I've been told), we will def. see more of that.

Or she could have been truly torn between the two and decided that it would be easier to pick the one who lived in her city.

I don't believe you can be truly torn and get engaged to someone on the same day or even a few days after.  In Epi 1, when Andi is talking with her parents, Hy says that when she brings the final 2 guys to meet them he feels she should be certain that only one of the guys is her pick.  Foreshadowing, me thinks.

These are not real engagements. They are, "I choose you" moments and a leap of faith. These couples basically don't really even get to know each other until they are home and the cameras are off. The engagement isn't real until they have an engagement party for their close family and friends; that party is their way of making it real.

[Kashathediva]

Has Chloe heard any inside scoop about the video or thoughts of it? Chloe, where are you??

I feel like everything I see on the show only further reaffirms what I've been said after the FRC(about Nick being realistic and skeptic and Andi trying her hardest to reassure him (and his fam), etc..(I mean she even said so herself in this week's episode.. that she wants "to make him a believer" etc..)) As far as I know the vid is legit.

Thanks Chloep, I thought I was remembering correctly....

Thanks Chloep for sharing the info you heard.

I understand what your saying however the premise is illogical to me. By that I mean, what purpose is there to her trying to reassure him if she then willing accepts Josh's proposal a week after Nick's HTD.  The only thing I can think of is that she enjoyed the challenge of trying to covert his way of thinking.  I would only see logic in this if she didn't get engaged to anyone.

The dinner conversation you are referring to from epi 3 was followed by his definitely committing to an attempt at exploring a relationship with her as seen in epi 4.  Every season participants have concerns: scepticism, inability to deal with the lead building relations with others, too little time to be sure of their feelings, etc. She admitted to her own scepticism on her 1-1 with Nick so one would think she would be empathetic rather than emphatic.  Besides, her own father was sceptical at HTD stating "come back when she's the only one".  Well.

I'm not seeing her focus on his scepticism in the process as coming from a caring place. She could have put more value on the man than on the process.  In fact, it appears he was justified in his scepticism if the spoilers are correct - be she engaged to Josh or someone else.

Well, that's the point of the vid too... Nick was, by his own admission, completely caught off guard.
And her reassuring him will be a reoccurring theme(from what I've been told), we will def. see more of that.

Or she could have been truly torn between the two and decided that it would be easier to pick the one who lived in her city.

I don't believe you can be truly torn and get engaged to someone on the same day or even a few days after.  In Epi 1, when Andi is talking with her parents, Hy says that when she brings the final 2 guys to meet them he feels she should be certain that only one of the guys is her pick.  Foreshadowing, me thinks.

Regarding the bold: this is almost exactly what Des did.  The relationship grows post show.  

Or doesn't grow. It can go either way. 
In this bubble, tptb are very active at manipulating. I think a lot of what goes on in convincing the F2 he is the one comes from this corner in order to get the best response at the FRC rejection.

[notarose]

 
Totally agree with last 2 posts 

[Beagle]

So in other words, Andi did a really good job of leading Nick on!    Dare we call her a good actress??

Maybe it was like Nick said, she did change her mind at the last minute. Maybe she changed it because:

- She realized she loved Josh (or Marcus or Chris or even Cody, who knowws )
- She was scared sh!tless and picked "what she is used to option"
- She was scared that he wasn't "all in"

If this happened then she wasn't really leading him on

Or maybe the script was always for her to pick Josh, after JPG season they needed a happily ever after, this was the producer's shot.

Or maybe it was gameover from the start with one of the other guys (Josh, Marcus or Chris) and Nick was just a plot point.

There are a lot of maybes and what ifs, I am going to wait and see what happens on air and post show to reserve judgement at this time. All IMO of course  

I know my theory is controversial, but I go back to my first gut feeling. Andi and Josh had already met before the filming. He went into the show as the targeted one for Andi. Their behavior together from the beginning without even a 1 on 1 just accentuates this belief for me. Plus there was a poster (I think Imelda Marcos) that mentioned her fiancée knew of the Murrays and claimed he already knew the storyboard, that was at the beginning of filming. There is also the rumors Chloep mentioned about them being together, true or not? Well, so far all the info about Nick has panned out, so is possible the rumors about Josh and Andi could be true.

In the above scenario, Andi still had a show to do and had to choose someone as her F2 and convinced him to propose. That someone had to fit the description of not her usual type. I do think she was very attracted to Nick and they had a lot in common intellectually, so he became the sacrificial lamb.

Now, if Nick is F1 ( I wish), then I have been completely fool, and I applaud all the cast and crew involved in such an extraordinary foiler.

[stuckinsc]

Has Chloe heard any inside scoop about the video or thoughts of it? Chloe, where are you??

I feel like everything I see on the show only further reaffirms what I've been said after the FRC(about Nick being realistic and skeptic and Andi trying her hardest to reassure him (and his fam), etc..(I mean she even said so herself in this week's episode.. that she wants "to make him a believer" etc..)) As far as I know the vid is legit.

Thanks Chloep, I thought I was remembering correctly....

Thanks Chloep for sharing the info you heard.

I understand what your saying however the premise is illogical to me. By that I mean, what purpose is there to her trying to reassure him if she then willing accepts Josh's proposal a week after Nick's HTD.  The only thing I can think of is that she enjoyed the challenge of trying to covert his way of thinking.  I would only see logic in this if she didn't get engaged to anyone.

The dinner conversation you are referring to from epi 3 was followed by his definitely committing to an attempt at exploring a relationship with her as seen in epi 4.  Every season participants have concerns: scepticism, inability to deal with the lead building relations with others, too little time to be sure of their feelings, etc. She admitted to her own scepticism on her 1-1 with Nick so one would think she would be empathetic rather than emphatic.  Besides, her own father was sceptical at HTD stating "come back when she's the only one".  Well.

I'm not seeing her focus on his scepticism in the process as coming from a caring place. She could have put more value on the man than on the process.  In fact, it appears he was justified in his scepticism if the spoilers are correct - be she engaged to Josh or someone else.

Well, that's the point of the vid too... Nick was, by his own admission, completely caught off guard.
And her reassuring him will be a reoccurring theme(from what I've been told), we will def. see more of that.

Or she could have been truly torn between the two and decided that it would be easier to pick the one who lived in her city.

I don't believe you can be truly torn and get engaged to someone on the same day or even a few days after.  In Epi 1, when Andi is talking with her parents, Hy says that when she brings the final 2 guys to meet them he feels she should be certain that only one of the guys is her pick.  Foreshadowing, me thinks.

I didn't either until Des! I swore Des and Chris would fail because of how over the top upset she was when Brooks left, I didn't see how less than one week later she could accept Chris's proposal. I was so wrong, Chris loved her through it and I see them lasting a very long time.

[notarose]

stuckinsc
I actually don't think Andi and her F1 (most likely Josh) are doomed to fail. They have the same chance as any real life couple and it's always great when a relationship works.

My point is more about trying to convince a guy and his family about something that serves no purpose. I think when the lead is really falling in love, like Sean (I only watched a few bits of Des' season) then the other people on the show just play along because they get to hang out, travel, etc. In those cases it may appear to the audience that their fav or the F2 is truly being disserviced when in actuality it's just a numbers game and no real harm done. It's intended to look believable because it needs to a part of the story. Nick's vid, if genuine, means his was not a typical F2 or F3 scenerio. If he would have been let go at F4 I say that would have been a compassionate move on her part.

[MVMom39forever]

Has Chloe heard any inside scoop about the video or thoughts of it? Chloe, where are you??

I feel like everything I see on the show only further reaffirms what I've been said after the FRC(about Nick being realistic and skeptic and Andi trying her hardest to reassure him (and his fam), etc..(I mean she even said so herself in this week's episode.. that she wants "to make him a believer" etc..)) As far as I know the vid is legit.

Thanks Chloep, I thought I was remembering correctly....

Thanks Chloep for sharing the info you heard.

I understand what your saying however the premise is illogical to me. By that I mean, what purpose is there to her trying to reassure him if she then willing accepts Josh's proposal a week after Nick's HTD.  The only thing I can think of is that she enjoyed the challenge of trying to covert his way of thinking.  I would only see logic in this if she didn't get engaged to anyone.

The dinner conversation you are referring to from epi 3 was followed by his definitely committing to an attempt at exploring a relationship with her as seen in epi 4.  Every season participants have concerns: scepticism, inability to deal with the lead building relations with others, too little time to be sure of their feelings, etc. She admitted to her own scepticism on her 1-1 with Nick so one would think she would be empathetic rather than emphatic.  Besides, her own father was sceptical at HTD stating "come back when she's the only one".  Well.

I'm not seeing her focus on his scepticism in the process as coming from a caring place. She could have put more value on the man than on the process.  In fact, it appears he was justified in his scepticism if the spoilers are correct - be she engaged to Josh or someone else.

Well, that's the point of the vid too... Nick was, by his own admission, completely caught off guard.
And her reassuring him will be a reoccurring theme(from what I've been told), we will def. see more of that.

aka the video serves as the ELEPHANT in the room for us who see IT between Nick and Andi    IF we take it as a holy gospel   

I am glad you posted this!! 
We were so foiled last season!! It was a deliberate scheme dragged out for the duration of the show until KABOOM!!  clap3  And the scheme was hatched to get spoilers/sleuthers to back the wrong guy and keep the finale a surprise. 

So I will stay neutral until the scs come out. 

I am still curious about those bootlegged photos of wasn't it Nick's HTD? Those are a bit bizarre. No one of the crew noticed that was going down?? Those had to be sanctioned. 
I am very curious that someone just happens to get great quality of video of one of the F2 on a plane home from the FRC, get a full convo unobserved by anyone around him and then send it to the appropriate spoiler source within an hour or two of everything going down. I wish I had an emote of a duck walking, talking and quacking.

These are puzzle pieces to me. Let's see how it unfolds, I am not going to dismiss it--just because.  :fishing:

Exactly!!! Those of us die-hard Team Chris Fans were frantically searching to the bitter end for proof that the spoiler was wrong. And, at that point last season, I could have cared less about Des. I was TEAM CHRIS all the way and didn't want to see Chris devastated on national TV if Brooks swooped in at last minute. I can recall watching the finale with one eye on the clock waiting for Brooks to stop the rose ceremony. I did not let out a sigh of relief until the last 5 minutes of the show.

Why?

Because longtime trusted sleuthers on THIS FORUM ... came out during the week before finale saying that it would be Brooks. I've watched this crazy show forever and during the week before finale is when all spoilers are ALWAYS corrected/confirmed so I wash shocked, shocked and shocked some more ... not to mention DELIGHTED ... when it was Chris & Des at the end. Bravo!

So somebody spent a whole lot of time & effort to convince every Bachelor sleuther that the spoiler would be Brooks.

I say this season ... esp now reading that we only know F4 due to HTD sightings, right (??), that it could be a race to the end. Does anyone also think it's strange the way they are very slowly doling out screen caps of her exotic dates typical of F3? And don't get me re-started on the wonky airplane video with Nick ...

[nutty1]

As much as I'd love this to be a repeat of "screw RS", I don't think we can expect it to happen every season or even too often.

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