Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman and CH's Blog - *Spoilers* - Discussion

pavalygurl wrote:

Alanna wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:[snipped for brevity]  

I loved what CH said in his blog:  Josh=comfort zone.  Nick=unknown.  I don't care if she picks Josh or Nick.  I'm not her, it's her life, and she the one who will need to make it work IRL.  But, when I hear a woman point out character flaws, and laugh about them, I sure hope she stops and thinks about them a bit and then tries to improve herself and grow.  That's all I'm saying, because as much as a bratty, difficult, diva wife is unattractive to me, a bratty, difficult, diva mother is even more so.  Peace.    

I don't disagree on your assessment of Andi necessarily but I don't view it poorly. IMO she does have a hard exterior hiding a pretty vulnerable/needy girl and she is a spoiled princess, but I just don't view them as terrible things, I guess. She knows who and what she is, and she went out and found a guy who loves everything about her, thinks her brattiness is beyond adorable, and has had no trouble keeping the diva in check, which she absolutely loves. I don't see it as a sugar daddy thing either, she's used to a certain lifestyle and again, went out and found someone who grew up in a similar household where the man is the provider and protector, and he's more than happy and eager to protect her, provide for her, and support her just like she's used to and how he's been raised. All couples are different, I don't see anything wrong with the dynamic these two have since it so clearly works for both. And personally, I find them to be beyond adorable together and think they're in it for the long haul.

ETA: Oh and also to add that with Josh, I see Andi being really sweet and doting too, probably another trait she picked up from how she was raised that she should be doting on her man. She's already propping him up, wiping his tears, thinking of things he'd like, etc.

I'm definitely an Andi apologizer, it's true!  

Alanna:  I am not trying to be snarky.  I honestly don't understand what it is that Andi needs protection from.  She's an ADA working with gang units. She knows how to use a weapon.  I just don't get the delicate flower routine.  I hear Josh talking about protecting her.  I hear Nick talk about partnering with her.  That to me is more telling than all the "clues" that Josh is who she chooses.  She is a princess and wants someone, as Mia so perfectly pointed out, to do the heavy lifting in life for her.  I find that a bit sad.

I cannot think of any woman who would not want to be loved unconditionaly and protected. Josh will always have her back and that is what you want in a life partner. I think she will always have his as we have seen on the HTD about wanting his parents to be happy for Josh and not just Aaron.

MiaHawk wrote:
Yes, perhaps Josh's ability to tease/joke is a good way to diffuse Andi.  I think a more stern or serious conversation might put her on the defensive.  Yes, she is young and still has much growing to do.  I admit that I have a definite bias against divas.  Even the self-admitted ones, .  I definitely do have a dislike of pampered princesses.  I admit it.  It's not just Andi. Anytime I meet a needy, dependent, entitled diva, I think: That's a former spoiled brat.  The world needs less spoiled brats and less divas, IMHO.  Others may disagree, and that's totally fine, too.  Peace.    

Re the bold, that's exactly what I was thinking, and wondered why she was complaining he was always happy. I think that quality in him is exactly what she needs to tone down her analytical traits.

IA with the spoiled brats. IMO they are missing out in life, knowing and experiencing the feeling of giving and helping others because they are too wrapped up in themselves.

Some girls are just tough on the outside. Case and point Andi.
She's a born skeptic and has that attorney personality so all she knows how to do is question and fight everything. And if its too good to be true, something's wrong.

Its so great to see her let someone break down those walls and show her how to just chill and enjoy life.

GuardianAngel wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:
Yes, perhaps Josh's ability to tease/joke is a good way to diffuse Andi.  I think a more stern or serious conversation might put her on the defensive.  Yes, she is young and still has much growing to do.  I admit that I have a definite bias against divas.  Even the self-admitted ones, .  I definitely do have a dislike of pampered princesses.  I admit it.  It's not just Andi. Anytime I meet a needy, dependent, entitled diva, I think: That's a former spoiled brat.  The world needs less spoiled brats and less divas, IMHO.  Others may disagree, and that's totally fine, too.  Peace.    

Re the bold, that's exactly what I was thinking, and wondered why she was complaining he was always happy. I think that quality in him is exactly what she needs to tone down her analytical traits.

IA with the spoiled brats. IMO they are missing out in life, knowing and experiencing the feeling of giving and helping others because they are too wrapped up in themselves.

I think she was questioning why he's happy because once again she's afraid that he's happy naturally and would be happy with any girl and she's not special to him, he can leave her at any moment, etc. It follows along with how she tearfully imo told him she never ever believed he would say he loves her and wants her to be his wife. She's just STILL insecure with him even though she can admit that deep down she knows he loves her and isn't going anywhere.

While Josh may indeed have a more "traditional male" protective attitude than Nick does, I highly doubt that was the main reason why Andi chose him, or fell in love with him and not Nick. That said, her type is "manly men" (she has certainly told us this enough times   ) and Josh epitomizes that. I'm sure there are plenty of other strong career women who also like this type. I don't assume it means that all of them want to shirk all responsibilities in the relationship and be catered to by their guy 24/7 while giving nothing in return. Regardless, it takes two to tango, and whatever dynamic works for a couple, that's their business, not mine.

docnash14 wrote:

I appreciate the continued conversation.  I totally agree with you here and have witnessed her act or more accurately react in a like manner other situations (with JP, for instance) in a like manner.  However, as I have stated elsewhere, to her credit, Andi in this situation seemed to have processed her role in it as well as Josh's actual intentions as evidenced in their conversation on the Ghent date in which she was able to reply when Josh admitted that he was angry that day "yes, you were frustrated."  I teach couples communication skills to couples in my private practice and I find that a banner illustration of the listening skill of acknowledgement.  As far as Josh's ability to respond effectively to Andi when she is triggered, there's no doubt that they are going to have to work on this together but I was heartened by his comment during the dinner portion of the FD when he was able to state that she had already been difficult.  I found it very encouraging that he was able to frame that as a "great" thing that they had been "through the wringer" and had found a way to navigate through it.  Shows me that he is not seeing the relationship completely through rose-colored glasses.

so awesome how varied our experiences and perspectives are walking into this show and the learning process we sometimes have. LOVE your thoughts docnash and what an fascinating job you have i'm sure things get quite intresting!  
I agree that the Ghent conversation had her take a bit more ownership (still Andi focused) she reflected to him that she heard his frustration but it wasn't clear if she understood it...she didn't address his core concern by saying...i get that you might think I didn't trust you and thus put u through a test (esp due to our previous convos about my past/athletes) but XYZ ("this is what i need from you and I am growing to trust you" or whatever else she might want to say)...so while I agree she was reflective - I don't know if we SAW active empathy for where he's coming from on her part in this case...she was very focused on herself
I also did appreciate Josh's pointing it out as a positive that they were able to move past things cos I think positive affirmations are so important and Josh truly is that positive person...I do fear that he conceded and they actually didn't** directly address his core concern head on -- it flipped and the issue became about her and her nervousness about heartbreak -- he reassured her that there wouldn't be heartbreak with him but I don't know if he left knowing where he stood with regard to her trusting him... I almost think they were talking about totally different things ...he was saying he wants to know if she can trust him 100% and she was spinning it to "I felt attacked and don't know if I can even win sometimes with you"

...Josh obviously wants to dote on her and Andi seems to lap that up...with these convos she flipped it into something about her...I do think with him particularly she defaults to that - she gets comfy and cosy in her cushy surrounding and just lets him pamper her, be in charge, take care of the tough stuff, throw her around, entertain her, protect her, spoil her and Josh reaffirms that he'll do that (partly he takes pride in it) at some point tho it does point out her MeAndi tendencies and I think with others esp with Nick and even with Marcus to some extent she is called up to the plate -- to grow into her full capabilities, to support, be an equal, be a grown up, own up to her side of the conversation in conflicts.... I think when we said comfort...for Andi it's looking a lot more than just the comfort of the familiar but also the comfort of the luxuries of living with a kind, selfless man...
to me this isn't very mature and growth and challenging oneself is a huge part of being happy.... I think Andi possibly has that "dream job/guy/life" image which she thinks once she has she'll be over the moon happy... the fact of life however is that once that puzzle is fixed it's not in the attainment that she'll be consistently happy but in the gratitude of every day...in the learning, growing, connecting genuinely on all aspects with a life "partner", in giving....

Keeping up with the Joneses and being doted on aren't quite IT for happiness in the soul but hey that's just MY biased opinion......my 2 cents in multiple posts 

GuardianAngel wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:
Yes, perhaps Josh's ability to tease/joke is a good way to diffuse Andi.  I think a more stern or serious conversation might put her on the defensive.  Yes, she is young and still has much growing to do.  I admit that I have a definite bias against divas.  Even the self-admitted ones, .  I definitely do have a dislike of pampered princesses.  I admit it.  It's not just Andi. Anytime I meet a needy, dependent, entitled diva, I think: That's a former spoiled brat.  The world needs less spoiled brats and less divas, IMHO.  Others may disagree, and that's totally fine, too.  Peace.    

Re the bold, that's exactly what I was thinking, and wondered why she was complaining he was always happy. I think that quality in him is exactly what she needs to tone down her analytical traits.

IA with the spoiled brats. IMO they are missing out in life, knowing and experiencing the feeling of giving and helping others because they are too wrapped up in themselves.

That is exactly why I think Josh will be good for her. We already see that he brings that playfully side of her. I just saw a completely different Andi on the baseball field on Josh's HDT. When she ran up to him and jumped in his arms she was different and younger looking.

GuardianAngel wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:
Yes, perhaps Josh's ability to tease/joke is a good way to diffuse Andi.  I think a more stern or serious conversation might put her on the defensive.  Yes, she is young and still has much growing to do.  I admit that I have a definite bias against divas.  Even the self-admitted ones, .  I definitely do have a dislike of pampered princesses.  I admit it.  It's not just Andi. Anytime I meet a needy, dependent, entitled diva, I think: That's a former spoiled brat.  The world needs less spoiled brats and less divas, IMHO.  Others may disagree, and that's totally fine, too.  Peace.    

Re the bold, that's exactly what I was thinking, and wondered why she was complaining he was always happy. I think that quality in him is exactly what she needs to tone down her analytical traits.

IA with the spoiled brats. IMO they are missing out in life, knowing and experiencing the feeling of giving and helping others because they are too wrapped up in themselves.

I agree with you both on the spoiled brat front    but hey i'm probably biased when it comes to, entitled, spoiled brat types as well....and it's a pet peeve which others may not share
but all jokes aside I do think the tease/joke element of josh is great to diffuse Andi but his level of being easy-going as wonderful it is...makes him a pushover unless he's able to use his ability to diffuse Andi to ACTUALLY break her out of her stubbornness or brattiness or divaness...cos when the ____ hits the road the fan marriage isn't about just giggling and making light for the sake of it...and Josh comes off as quite serious and IMHO focused/opinionated when it comes to real life stuff... They each have to learn to navigate each other's temperaments when it comes to difficult convos and serious issues, to compromise and work together - build on each other...particularly when Andi is called upon to be supportive and generous with herself (maybe the issue is we haven't been SHOWN that side of her on this show but it does exist)

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months. Josh has seemed to settle nicely back into the life he had before the show. Andi, on the other hand, has not it seems. I don't buy that show related duties have been keeping her from doing that. Ashley returned back to school during the airing of her show. It can be done.

I think the reason she still considers herself a diva or whatever is because that while it's an unattractive trait, it's been working for her all these years. Why change if she can get everything she wants and still be a diva? It's not like Josh is going to leave her if she doesn't change. He's already made the decision to pursue the relationship further, regardless of her non-existent desire to better herself.

noobsleuth wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months. Josh has seemed to settle nicely back into the life he had before the show. Andi, on the other hand, has not it seems. I don't buy that show related duties have been keeping her from doing that. Ashley returned back to school during the airing of her show. It can be done.

I think the reason she still considers herself a diva or whatever is because that while it's an unattractive trait, it's been working for her all these years. Why change if she can get everything she wants and still be a diva? It's not like Josh is going to leave her if she doesn't change. He's already made the decision to pursue the relationship further, regardless of her non-existent desire to better herself.

Her not returning to work right and submitting her resignation could just be the fact she knows how intense her job is and she would have to have a lot of time off. She might just have felt it wasn't fair to the office and we really don't know what her bosses discussed with her. I don't know if it was just a fail safe statement but she did indicate she'd like to try and get her job back in Dec when her commitments would be done. Guess we will all find out shortly.

pander3575 wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months. Josh has seemed to settle nicely back into the life he had before the show. Andi, on the other hand, has not it seems. I don't buy that show related duties have been keeping her from doing that. Ashley returned back to school during the airing of her show. It can be done.

I think the reason she still considers herself a diva or whatever is because that while it's an unattractive trait, it's been working for her all these years. Why change if she can get everything she wants and still be a diva? It's not like Josh is going to leave her if she doesn't change. He's already made the decision to pursue the relationship further, regardless of her non-existent desire to better herself.

Her not returning to work right and submitting her resignation could just be the fact she knows how intense her job is and she would have to have a lot of time off.  She might just have felt it wasn't fair to the office and we really don't know what her bosses discussed with her.  I don't know if it was just a fail safe statement but she did indicate she'd like to try and get her job back in Dec when her commitments would be done.  Guess we will all find out shortly.

That makes sense pander. The next few months will tell the real story, they always do. My mind can't contribute to the conversation about what's going through Andi's mind when she was filming (and what we are seeing now), there's just too many unknowns! I also think to a certain extent, everyone is mindful of how they are going to perceived on TV and act differently around cameras, so discussing what the real Andi/Josh/Nick need is hard... it's not totally the real them.

Even if she wanted to take back the cringe worthy diva confession, she can't, that's the downside of having every waking moment and conversation on film. I know I've said things during relationship talks (esp where wine is involved) that I wish I could have thought through more. As long as Josh was satisfied with her reasons for leaving (in light of their relationship and where is leaves them even geographically) that's all that matters.

I obviously don't know what's going on in their real relationship or what they're thinking, but I can see Josh being very supportive of her leaving the path to a prosecutor, taking time off to enjoy life/wedding plan/whatever and then returning to another aspect of law.

I mean...
http://sandrarose.com/2014/04/fulton-assistant-district-attorney-critically-wounded-in-double-shooting/

http://www.thecrimereport.org/viewpoints/robin-barton/2013-02-is-being-a-prosecutor-a-dangerous-job