*NO SPOILERS* The Bachelorette 10 - Episode Discussion

Peppermom wrote:

alwaystulips wrote:Sure, I can see the producers feeding Nick the line of "you're the frontrunner" and he bought it.  But, this is what I don't understand  If he's studied the show, as he said last episode he has, he would question everything they tell him.  To me, his actions are so overly confident, it almost feels like he made some deal with TPTB for the ending.  I just can't believe he thinks there's no one else Andi might have feelings for.  Unless Andi's also telling him that, which we can't see.

Maybe I'll feel differently after I see him with his family, but right now, the Nick I see on screen seems almost as scripted as Jef.  I don't think he'll be F1, though.  When Josh told Andi he was falling in love with her, her face showed who her F1 is.  That was a huge sign.  I've never seen her smile so big all season.

So agree with this, especially the bolded.  I think he is over-confident and way too cocky for me.  I like confident, I don't like cocky.  I don't see Andi telling him that he is the one.  I think he is her backup plan.  If she thinks Josh isn't going to propose or doesn't trust the future with him, Nick will be F1 unless he bails.

Sorry a little behind.

I completely agree with everything you ladies have said in these post.

I can say I finally saw a connection with Nick and Andi when he snuck over to see her. That was the first time for me. However, when she was on her GD dinner with him I did not see it anymore. What happened in between? Josh had a date with Andi and he told her he was falling in love with her. I think that changed everything for her. Before that she didn't know if he would get to that point so she was continuing to develop her other relationships with guys that were able to give her that in hopes that Josh may "come around", and then he did. The last time I saw the same connection I see between Andi and Josh was with Ashley and JP. There is just something different. I think we will now see Andi hold back with the others as much as TPTB will allow anyway. After all, the show must go on.

I watched some of Jash's season this week and Ben was a lot like Nick. He was the skeptic who became extremely confident he was the F1 and no one else. The guys also got mad when he came back from his 1on1 the next morning. However, his edit was not as villainous as what they have done to Nick so I can't see him being redeemed enough to be TB. While TPTB (and I) would love Josh as the Bachelor I don't see that happening.

GrahamGal wrote:

Peppermom wrote:

alwaystulips wrote:Sure, I can see the producers feeding Nick the line of "you're the frontrunner" and he bought it.  But, this is what I don't understand  If he's studied the show, as he said last episode he has, he would question everything they tell him.  To me, his actions are so overly confident, it almost feels like he made some deal with TPTB for the ending.  I just can't believe he thinks there's no one else Andi might have feelings for.  Unless Andi's also telling him that, which we can't see.

Maybe I'll feel differently after I see him with his family, but right now, the Nick I see on screen seems almost as scripted as Jef.  I don't think he'll be F1, though.  When Josh told Andi he was falling in love with her, her face showed who her F1 is.  That was a huge sign.  I've never seen her smile so big all season.

So agree with this, especially the bolded.  I think he is over-confident and way too cocky for me.  I like confident, I don't like cocky.  I don't see Andi telling him that he is the one.  I think he is her backup plan.  If she thinks Josh isn't going to propose or doesn't trust the future with him, Nick will be F1 unless he bails.

Sorry a little behind.

I completely agree with everything you ladies have said in these post.

I can say I finally saw a connection with Nick and Andi when he snuck over to see her.  That was the first time for me.  However, when she was on her GD dinner with him I did not see it anymore.  What happened in between?  Josh had a date with Andi and he told her he was falling in love with her.  I think that changed everything for her. Before that she didn't know if he would get to that point so she was continuing to develop her other relationships with guys that were able to give her that in hopes that Josh may "come around", and then he did.  The last time I saw the same connection I see between Andi and Josh was with Ashley and JP.  There is just something different. I think we will now see Andi hold back with the others as much as TPTB will allow anyway.  After all, the show must go on.

I watched some of Jash's season this week and Ben was a lot like Nick.  He was the skeptic who became extremely confident he was the F1 and no one else.  The guys also got mad when he came back from his 1on1 the next morning.  However, his edit was not as villainous as what they have done to Nick so I can't see him being redeemed enough to be TB.  While TPTB (and I) would love Josh as the Bachelor I don't see that happening.

GG, you make excellent observations. Your point about the shift in Andi toward Nick between his extra visit and the GD (I also thought that at the cocktail party when she kissed him it was little more than a peck on the lips) being due to Josh's declaration particularly makes good sense. As far as Andi's date with Josh, it would appear that someone gave her a crash course in attentive listening. Her response to Josh when he admitted being angry about the lie detector test when she said "you were frustrated" with no hint of a defensive tone was a far cry from how she reacted the previous week when apparently her insecurity got the best of her.

You are not alone in your comparison of Ashley and JP with Andi and Josh. I hope the outcome will be the same as I see her being different with him than with all of the other guys. Indeed, I think we see more of the real Andi when she's with Josh.

luvlady345 wrote:I am loving this thread, I love reading what the unspoiled is seeing w/o interference and the clouding of judgment....... Let me ask you guys a question, how many seasons have each of you watched unspoiled and did you correctly get the F1?

I have only been completely spoiled before the season 2 times. Ashley and Emily's seasons.

Before DeAnna's season I had never looked at a spoiler and always had the Bachelorette's choice correct except for Jen. I thought she would pick John Paul. During DeAnna's season I fount FORT because I had to know if she picked Graham. While she did not I still contend I got that season right. I didn't spoil myself until the 4th epi for Jillian and Ali's season and had them both pegged. I was spoiled for Ashley and Emily's seasons. I watched Des' season unspoiled and liked Drew, but not for her. I didn't see much with any of the guys, but that had more to do with finding Des a little bit of a snooze so I admittedly was not all that interested and watched only for the men. The night before her finally I was spoiled that Brooks returned and all I though was no way. I couldn't believe it. Was waiting for his return that never came. I loved it just for the fact that the spoiler was wrong.

So I have been right for 5 of 7 of my unspoiled Bachelorette season getting Jen/NoOne and Des/Chris wrong. Interesting because I see these two as probably the most boring of the Bachelorettes.

happygolucky wrote:My last intervention here on this thread ... 1st to congratulate and wishing you happy Fourth of July and
have some questions for all your knowledge (I will just read from now) since my adoration for Nick is clouding my judgment, would like to know other side:
- of all the guys, who is most shown to you - like 1) the most screen time 2) the most important scenes (like ITM, Andi's PO of them, ...) 3) just catching Andi's (full) attention
- of the past seasons, who could you compare the "roles" to - and then please write how those people "ended up in the run" (because I've only understood Des' season so far, I know a lot of people commenting on Nick's "negative" editing to have similarities with JP's (Ashley), but not quite that road)
- can you see any patterns of who ends up F1,2,3, by how many close-ups, camera angles they get, how their ITMs are conducted, when is their date shown or in which order is filmed, how do parents react and subsequently the choice the Bette makes?
- if you know anything more about Andi's family (parents, her sister) other than what was shown in 1st episode, what do you think their impressions would be about the 4 remaining guys? and what do you think Andi is looking for in the HTD when interacting with guys family and friends? (meaning what angle do you think the edit will go)

A few things I have notice about this season.  First, I have notice some of the ITM were shot at later times or maybe even after the season.  Example in episode 1 when she is questioning if Josh was being genuine or not, everything except the dress was different.  Her hair, make-up, missing earring, flowers and candles didn't match any of the other ITMs from that night.  Also last episode, during her afternoon part of the Josh date it was not what she was wearing at all.  It actually appeared some of those may have been shot after her sneaky time with Nick.  I haven't really gone back to compare yet.  Also, during the night portion of her date with Josh she is wearing something I haven't seen her in yet this season and being we are moving tropical I would think I don't see her likely wearing it at all.  My thinking is they were lazy or she didn't have that outfit with her when she shot some of these ITMs after the show.  I will admit I have analyzed his ITMs more than any other because I noticed inconsistencies early on.  Those make me think TPTB are trying to tell us a different story than what was really going on (the doubts, etc).  To me it seems like we have gotten many more VO this season or ITMs where you don't see her actually saying the name as to who she is speaking about during that moment.  So to me it seems they are trying to make the audience believe things which were not necessarily being said about that specific person.

Another thing I noticed is that Nick and Josh were only on 1/2 of a GD together.  That is all.  So I don't know either one understands how the others relationship is with Andi.

Happy - haven't thought about some of your questions, but I will give you my opinions on a few things you asked about.

The only seasons I have really compared this to are Ali's and Ashley's. DeAnna's was a mess as was Emily's IMO.  I will go back and think about Jillian's.  To me I always look for the person the lead seems to be chasing: Graham, Ed, Roberto, JP (after Bentley left), Jef, and Brooks.  Although I admit I really didn't pay much attention to Des' season.  In all those the one she was chasing was the F1, except for the two that left.  This season Andi is chasing Josh. Unless he leaves, which I don't see, he should be the F1. The chemistry between Andi/Josh is just as I saw with Ali/Roberto and Ashley/JP.  It something I see that is hard to explain. I touched on who I see Nick as during Ashley's season and why in the last paragraph of my first post earlier tonight.

As to what she may be looking for in her HTD I think a close knit family will be number one on her list. I think that is something she has and seeks for in a partner.  To me it seems Nick, Josh, and Chris have that family.  Marcus does not.  If she sends him home at F4 this could be another reason.  I don't know how strong her faith is, but since Andi and Josh visit a Cathedral on their date it could be something they have in common.  I follow Josh on twitter and he often quotes the bible and other books.  The only other F4 I follow is Marcus and he only recently started tweeting.  He was fairly quote before this week.

Also, someone was asking about Nick/Josh's post show relationship.  If you look at this weeks deleted scenes you can find out what Nick thought of Josh in Brussels.  If people want me to post it let me know.  I don't see it as spoiler since it gives no clue as to how Andi feels or who she chooses.  Last week others said deleted scenes were OK, but I just want to be sure before I bring it over.

I'll try and answer more later this weekend, but it's long past my bedtime.  Night all!

First, thank you GA for removing the spoilerish items. Very appreciated. I appreciate that all the spoiled posters are doing a great job of being careful in what they post here, it is really hard to stay unspoiled.

So may great questions and discussions the past few pages. GrahamGirl, you are so right about the ITM's and voice overs. They are so misdirecting. Always have been to a point I think but some of them this season are so out of sync. AT mentioned about Josh's family and how Andi would fit in. I think the preview for the HTD's is an excellent example of the voice over misdirection. When Andi is talking to Josh's mother, she is talking about Josh then it cuts away and you hear his mom say something like "he'll never cut the apron strings". That was so clipped and I doubt it was even about Josh. If it was, there will be context about how that has changed yada yada yada.

I think Chris' HTD is the one that won't go very well, mostly because she won't be able to see herself there. I can see that Marcus' HTD might be rough due to the dynamics but he has been open with her on that and as long as things don't go crazy, I don't think that will be a reason for her to let him go at F4. I think she might let him go at F4 if she thinks it will hurt him too much later on. I still think Chris goes this week and Marcus next.

I see her connection with Josh as by far the strongest and the only way he isn't F1, is if he causes her reason to doubt he will propose.

in2deep wrote:Oh, my favorite prank wasn't a prank at all: it was the dove burial with Jason and N… what was her name?  Just thinking about that makes me laugh.  

My hopes for the HTDs:
Chris: let Andi drive a tractor.  Then I can live vicariously.  Also, do not really say that thing about 'you could be a housewife.' That'll get you booted into the next county.  And axe your chances of being TB.
Marcus: Just smile real pretty and hold up emotionally.  TB may be yours for the taking, son.
Nick: Help Andi see how she would/wouldn't fit into your family and your life.  
Josh: Just invite Andi's family over - y'all are all in Atlanta after all.  Barring that, just do as much to show her how life with you would really be.  

Even if I were the biggest Nick fan in the world, once Josh said the magic words (well, almost), the game. was. over.  Looking back to the GD, she was so upset because the one she was falling for the hardest was upset and not 'progressing,' while the one who was doing all the romantic gestures was falling short and looking like either a producer's pawn or an insensitive dolt.  

My biggest idea of the evening: Can we introduce Courtney and Nick?

Her name was Naomi. Loved the shocked looks from Jason on that date. Priceless. Courtney and Nick? At least she looked Ben in the eye when she talked to him.

And can I just say, I hate when a guy twirls his hair. Stop it Nick, just stop it.  

Did any find it interesting that Nick went on his "sneaky date" in between the 2nd 1on1 dates of the only other guys to get 2? You know it was producer driven and Nick was only to happy to oblige.  TPTB likely used that to spur #trickynicky into action.

Also, when Marcus got the first date card they bleep out Josh supposedly swearing.  Did anyone else think that he likely didn't swear, but they bleeped it out to make it look like he did?  I just don't think he would have done that after Marcus, the guys didn't act as if he did and Marcus tapped him on the knee as he got up to ready for his date.  I could see that if he hadn't gotten either of the 1on1 and was "relegated" to the GD that week.  It just sort of reminded me of the Jimmy Kimmel bleep out  "Unnecessary Censorship" skits.  Here an example if you haven't seen it before.

Loved that clip from Kimmel. I thought it was out of character for Josh to do that also. He didn't seem angry at Marcus when he got up.

It was funny though when his date card came and he thought it was going to be a group date. Sort of oh no another group date.   

I never saw that from Kimmel before. Too funny. I don't think Josh swore at Marcus. And I don't believe that any hotel anywhere would give a key with the lame excuse that Nick gave. Totally set up by TPTB.

Peppermom wrote:I never saw that from Kimmel before.  Too funny.  I don't think Josh swore at Marcus.  And I don't believe that any hotel anywhere would give a key with the lame excuse that Nick gave.  Totally set up by TPTB.

Well, and Nick had at least a cameraman and a keeper...i don't think they do double-duty, nor do I think they were hiding behind a palm tree. Head-banging moment.

I will have to miss watching HTDs tomorrow night and can't tape it.  Does anyone know a link to watch the show the next day?  I used to watch on the ABC site, but can't anymore.  I might have to miss next week, too.   

alwaystulips wrote:I will have to miss watching HTDs tomorrow night and can't tape it.  Does anyone know a link to watch the show the next day?  I used to watch on the ABC site, but can't anymore.  I might have to miss next week, too.   

I don't know about free options like Hulu or anything. Maybe someone else does. I do know you can purchase the whole season for $13.99 on iTunes and it usually is available the next day. Not sure if that is an option for you, but I thought I would put it out there.