Re: * No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 FINALE (LCD/MTP/FRC) Discussion- Thread #2

[notarose]

Changing course a bit, I was unspoiled the first 4 episodes after which I couldn't google anything without being spoiled.  Despite that:
- I thought he was always pursuing Nikki & Sharleen (S being the most obvious) early on
- I found Sharleen & JPG's scenes to be much more physical than with Clare.  
- I thought, for awhile anyway, that JPG was Sharleen's physical fling but when they had their first 1-1 she did seem to be surprised by his candour and did become more serious in considering him as having some potential for her
- because Clare used multiple phrases common to previous seasons during her first 1-1, she honestly struck me as a super fan of the series then when she arrived mic-ed up with cameras in tow to JPG's room, she pretty much lost me.  I really enjoyed her scenes because she's just wonderful to watch; not necessarily to make fun of but because she has that "it" factor. (Great charisma on camera)
- I do believe Clare was open to all possibilities, either falling in love or being the next bachelorette, when she arrived on the show.  I think many girls who come on the show are as well.
- I think TPTB has done the greater disservice to Clare by editing and planted crap in their media sources that repeatedly & luridly wants viewers to think sex occurred at 1 or more points in the show. After all, this same TPTB is responsible for tainting Sean & Catherine's wedding with the stupid wedding suite cam so let's just say it's their "thing".
Basically everyone is at the mercy of the edit and the format, known to every participant who watched previous seasons before appearing on this one,knows that all except the one(s) the lead is really interested in will begin play acting at some point because he can't send everyonce else home before the very end. Until that point, the show goes on by mutual agreement.

In my mind, everyone on the show is likely more good than bad in their reality.

[chi-girl]

I have some serious problems here. Why all the posters who Have differing opinions suddenly entitled to be called sour grapes? And feel the need to clarify themselves?. Its called having different POV. It happens in every aspects of our Real life, let alone of this Silly reality TV show . Why taken all of the fun in sleuthing , analyzing , speculating, etc by "mandating" everyone to be right in predicting the correct outcome As well as should be happy for the final couple? . It is really Beyond me...

This.

I had a lot of fun this season reading everything that the sleuthers uncovered. Lately it seems to me, that if you're not on board with the happy couple, your opinion and observations have no place here.

[chi-girl]

I agree that I think Sharleen and Nikki were the intended F2.  If Sharleen hadn't left, I wonder if JP would have picked her as F1 instead of Nikki? (Assuming of course that Sharleen was *into* JP.)

[notarose]

I agree that I think Sharleen and Nikki were the intended F2.  If Sharleen hadn't left, I wonder if JP would have picked her as F1 instead of Nikki?  (Assuming of course that Sharleen was *into* JP.)

That's a good point chi-girl. My take is that "what is" takes precedence over "what if" as much in real life as on reality tv. Sorta like if I hadn't left to go to college would I have married my high school sweetheart? I did leave and we didn't. We make decisions at the time and, I believe, do best by ourselves to embrace and enjoy the present rather than wander into the "what if".

I'm thinking Sharleen leaving just allowed JPG to devote greater attention to Nikki at an earlier point. When Sharleen left I think JPG had just had his 2nd 1-1 with Nikki and verified his own feelings for her and got a greater sense of hers - and even his cousin has since clarified that during his & JPG's talk in Miami, not shown on the show, was JPG telling him Nikki was his top pick. That conversation was before JPG had 1-1's in Miami with either girl. To me this says that Nikki was never in a default position.

[Guest]

I have some serious problems here. Why all the posters who Have differing opinions suddenly entitled to be called sour grapes? And feel the need to clarify themselves?. Its called having different POV. It happens in every aspects of our Real life, let alone of this Silly reality TV show . Why taken all of the fun in sleuthing , analyzing , speculating, etc by "mandating" everyone to be right in predicting the correct outcome As well as should be happy for the final couple? . It is really Beyond me...

This.

I had a lot of fun this season reading everything that the sleuthers uncovered.   Lately it seems to me, that if you're not on board with the happy couple, your opinion and observations have no place here.  

Yup. I always have a firm believe that a non-fan forum is a fair arena for everyone to state POV toward a final couple, regardless on-board or not. No one should feel inconvenient for being called certain names due to their opinions. Every single opinion has its place and should be respected. Hopefully we all can learn 1 or 2 things for future reference, starting from Andi' s season

[Sable]

I agree that I think Sharleen and Nikki were the intended F2.  If Sharleen hadn't left, I wonder if JP would have picked her as F1 instead of Nikki?  (Assuming of course that Sharleen was *into* JP.)

That's a good point chi-girl.  My take is that "what is" takes precedence over "what if" as much in real life as on reality tv. Sorta like if I hadn't left to go to college would I have married my high school sweetheart?  I did leave and we didn't.  We make decisions at the time and, I believe, do best by ourselves to embrace and enjoy the present rather than wander into the "what if".  

I'm thinking Sharleen leaving just allowed JPG to devote greater attention to Nikki at an earlier point.  When Sharleen left I think JPG had just had his 2nd 1-1 with Nikki and verified his own feelings for her and got a greater sense of hers - and even his cousin has since clarified that during his & JPG's talk in Miami, not shown on the show, was JPG telling him Nikki was his top pick.  That conversation was before JPG had 1-1's in Miami with either girl.  To me this says that Nikki was never in a default position.

I agree. I think Nikki was his F1 for a long time. At least I felt that way. I watched the show spoiled, so I was already pretty sure that he picked Nikki, so maybe that affected how I watched the show? Even though they say it is not a big deal to introduce your family to your girlfriends early on in his culture, it sealed it for me when Juan Pablo introduced Nikki to his family. I don't know if I would go as far to say Sharleen would have been the F2 to Nikki's F1 if she hadn't asked to leave at the F6. I mean something weird could have happened on her hometown date and then Juan Pablo could have let her go then or she could have excused herself at that point. I do think Sharleen would have gotten a hometown date though if she hadn't excused herself and I think Renee would have gone home in her place

[Admin]

FYI all members, there is a Fan Forum for Nikki and Juan Pablo here in case you did not see the post about it:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[Admin]

Please remember that not all people will agree on the same thing AND negative opinions about the couple are allowed in these threads. Also, absolutely NO calling other members names just because they do not agree with you! Thanks!

[notarose]

Hi again Sable!
My feeling is that Renee was just a very greatly valued friend all along. Somewhere (an interview maybe) she said they had talked about how difficult it had been for Ben when she broke up with a long term boyfriend.  I think that boyfriend is the now fiancé. These kinds of talks would have been very insightful for JPG as well as her showing him that it is ok to allow his daughter to see affection as she sat close to JPG during the ball game and at her house.  I think she was a great mentor for him.  Renee was going home either with or without JPG.  He would have never wanted her to go through the whole FS thing! I'm guessing she gave him great advice and he gave her an opportunity to get away for awhile to think through her own life.  (My opinion).
And yes to your above.

[Admin]

Yes, opinions whether good OR bad about the couple are allowed here. Let's please discuss these differences like adults without the name calling! Thank you!

ETA: Discussion about what happened this season of course is also allowed whether negative or positive about the season (not members!)!

[4health]

I have some serious problems here. Why all the posters who Have differing opinions suddenly entitled to be called sour grapes? And feel the need to clarify themselves?. Its called having different POV. It happens in every aspects of our Real life, let alone of this Silly reality TV show . Why taken all of the fun in sleuthing , analyzing , speculating, etc by "mandating" everyone to be right in predicting the correct outcome As well as should be happy for the final couple? . It is really Beyond me...

I hope I don't get in trouble here for expressing my opinion, but I so agree w/you!  I just want to come on here and discuss the show as I see it.  I will admit that I really don't enjoy Juan Pablo and Nikki as a couple.  I am so confused by their relationship that I don't know what to think.  I will admit I did not want Juan Pablo to be the bachelor when he was first announced, but I did watch the show.  I am a diehard fan, so I will always watch even when I don't like the lead very much.  As the show progressed, I started to like Juan Pablo and didn't like the way he was being portrayed and edited by TPTB and I really started to feel some compassion :  for him.  Then,  with what he pulled at ATFR, he kinda lost me again.  I just didn't like his behavior and attitude and I thought he was being very disrespectful of Nikki and their relationship when it seemed to me all Juan Pablo wanted to do was get his revenge on TPTB at the expense of everything else.  I also didn't care for some of his responses in his People Magazine interview either.  I just don't get their relationship and just can't relate to it.  I don't think Nikki and Juan Pablo are horrible people, but discussing my viewpoint about them isn't a bunch of sour grapes because I am not a fan of their relationship.  At the end of the day, (to borrow Andi's favorite phrase), what they do in their lives has no effect on mine and for some silly reason I have been a fan of this show since almost the beginning and I enjoy discussing the outcome whether or not is the outcome I had hoped for.

Wow. you have said it Million times better than me..TY!!. Don't worry Sable, you are not alone . I for one, still confuse to no end... Same with you, I could care less of  JPab and his pick (WHAT= the outcome) , but I really like to figure out HOW stuff has been played out, what did I miss, how stuff on and off screen can be reasonably explained, the similarities of past seasons, etc, and so forth. Hopefully there still be places for folks like us, the lone wandering mind rangers :giggling:on this forum.   

Well if we all have the same opinion life would be very boring.  I posted upthread my long post and always enjoy everyone else's take on what they see or felt.  So, another thing that isn't adding up for me and would love to see everyone else's point of view.  (I might not agree with it but like to read it)   Why did tptb release five videos before the FRC?  They had a reason….they don't do anything without a reason.   So, when you write a story you start at the beginning….with this story the franchise starts from the end.  Nikki received the last rose and JuanP didn't propose, so the writers go back and build their story off of who they see as the villain, the passion, the good girl, the friend etc….and then edit all the film to tell the story that reaches to the ending they have.  So again I ask Why did they release these videos?
1 - JuanP and CH deliberating about how JuanP treated Clare on ocean gate (Vietnam)
2 - JuanP and CH talking about Andi and JuanP reaction about Andi
3 - LCD with Clare playing "their" song (televised)
4 - LCD with Nikki playing a song "Only One" singing it to her while holding her hand (not televised)

We have JuanP releasing a video montage of Nikki with "Only One" song that he states he wrote the words and sent them to his friend to compose and record.   I would love to hear from both camps of Nikki was always JuanP F1 to camps that JuanP couldn't decide between the F2 up until the end.  Plus which story is tptb trying to tell us with releasing these videos.

JuanP wrote this song about his bachelor experience, some would like to think he wrote about Nikki or to Nikki….he had to get the words to his friend, record it and get it back to JuanP so he could play it to Nikki on their LCD….which will support Nikki was frontrunner and that song was for her.   Then I will add, if that is true then JuanP is a tool for what he said and how he handled himself on that last night with Clare.  It wasn't a tough decision for him like he stated at the FRC to Clare and him saying "Do you know when I made my decision".
That scenario makes JuanP look really bad but helps me have more faith in their relationship and they just might make it.  He is more invested into Nikki then I saw or thought.  But, if he wrote that song for his overall experience and not anyone in particular because he hadn't made a decision yet but that last night with Nikki he knew then, what he said to Clare on her LCD was him being honest, "He hadn't made up his mind yet." would mean that he didn't have a frontrunner the whole time and he was trying to figure it all out.  

The videos are telling us something.… I believe that they were…..but WHAT is the question.   I would love to hear your thoughts….

I have my thoughts but will resign to comment and look forward to hearing everyones thoughts.

[Alanna]

I don't think JPG is that complicated- Nikki consistently caused no drama, presented no challenge to him being fully in charge, never whined or cried and was happy and smiley. She is younger, comes from a happy, complete family and brings no drama, their relationship was easier from day 1 so I think she was f1 from almost the word go. Clare, Sharleen, and Andi all presented drama, tears and some sort of complaints and stress constantly, and Nikki never caused him any stress and still doesn't.

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