The Bachelor 18- Episode 5 - 2/03 - Discussion - Spoilers

dw_a_mom wrote:The problem with JP's conversation with Clare was HOW he handled it.  Among other things, he kept changing his story.  My bet on what he really wanted to say?  "This would have been fine if I had had my mind made up I was going to choose you, but after that swim I had my one on one with Nikki, and now that she is the frontrunner in my mind, I am realizing how much trouble this is going to get me in."

What REALLY annoyed me is him essentially telling her she was not allowed to cry, and that he was going to stop telling her what he was thinking if she couldn't stop crying, and then insisting that she look at him during a time she was obviously upset and needed a little time to gather herself.  How utterly self-centered and controlling he was in those moments.

Was he wrong for wanting to share that he was looking back on it with regret?  No.  But it could have been handled 500% better, and the fault for that goes on him.

 

Mommyof1...Thanks for the clarifications. He uses that "sneaky" right and left so to me it is not strictly a shout out to Nikki.

Alanna wrote:This guy is such a moron. He handled it not only badly but told her he didn't want to hurt her feelings. Seriously??? What a joke. And when that didn't fly, he pulled out the trump card CAMILA. What a sexist pig, for real.

Honestly, I don't know if it would of matter how he told Clare, I think her reaction would have been the same. We need a cling on smiley!   

interesting recap

http://www.imnotheretomakefriends.com/episode-5/#.UvPV-f09lVh

iamreal2u wrote:interesting recap

http://www.imnotheretomakefriends.com/episode-5/#.UvPV-f09lVh

Thanks! This guy is a hoot!

dw_a_mom wrote:The problem with JP's conversation with Clare was HOW he handled it. Among other things, he kept changing his story. My bet on what he really wanted to say? "This would have been fine if I had had my mind made up I was going to choose you, but after that swim I had my one on one with Nikki, and now that she is the frontrunner in my mind, I am realizing how much trouble this is going to get me in."

What REALLY annoyed me is him essentially telling her she was not allowed to cry, and that he was going to stop telling her what he was thinking if she couldn't stop crying, and then insisting that she look at him during a time she was obviously upset and needed a little time to gather herself. How utterly self-centered and controlling he was in those moments.

Was he wrong for wanting to share that he was looking back on it with regret? No. But it could have been handled 500% better, and the fault for that goes on him.

Thank you! I agree with the first part of your post. I see you understand men. lol This what I've been saying about the reason he regret what he did. After his one on one with Nikki things change, don't want a Emily and Chantel situation, for an example. The producers weren't going to let him be honest and tell the truth, that would monk up their whole show, they're not having that so he has to go with the Camila story for an excuse..


Being sneaky wasn't my point about the blog.

stuckinsc wrote:Juan Pablo admitted to making a mistake.

I didn't think that he was blaming Clare, but when he tried to express to her that they shouldn't do that again, she didn't see what he was saying, he tried multiple ways to tell her that they shouldn't do it again.  But, until he brought up Camila, Clare wouldn't see that they shouldn't do it again.

I don't know if he decided it was bad on his own, if the date with Nikki brought perspective, I can't tell yet.  But he did regret his decision, and yet that doesn't see, to count for anything.

I remember one of the chief complaints about Ben with Courtney was his lack of feeling sorry about what they did, but when Juan Pablo feels bad right away and then tries to fix it he is a bad guy.  

Seems weird to me.

I don't know if Juan Pablo fell in love.  I think he likes some of the women, but I don't think he enjoyed being the lead.  I don't hate him, understand others don't like him, but I have been surprised with how much I have actually found him to be okay.  I like him a lot more than I liked Ben, Jake or even Jason in the role.

I agree with both what you and pbmax are saying. In the beginning of the season Chris H. said something along the lines that JuPablo didn't fully understand the process and never fully engaged (I translate that as his not being willing to play by the producers' rules and go along with their machinations). And, indeed, that has been demonstrated by some of his tweets in which he has tried to set the record straight with some of the edit manipulations. As far as the thing with Clare, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris H made that comment as pay-back to JuPablo for not following orders and also wouldn't be surprised if Juan purposely mentioned in his blog that he didn't follow Chris H's advice (to wait to talk to Clare) in an effort to make the statement that he wasn't a puppet. And let's not forget the preview clip in which JuPablo stops a PI and walks out.

I personally think he's getting a much worse rap than he deserves. For instance, RS is making him out to be the scum of the earth for letting Cassandra go on her birthday. However, it appears that she may approach him about missing her child and so JuPablo decides to let her go so that she can be with her son for her birthday and wants to spare her the humiliation of the RC. And it's clear to me that he sincerely hates those ceremonies and that it hurts him to hurt others.

As far as Clare, no doubt that there was strong chemistry from the get go. And, if he is following suit with Sean's philosophy, he tried to focus completely on the woman he was with at the time. So he may have gotten caught up in the moment when Clare invited him to the beach but, as has been stated, when he was at the cocktail party, realized he was having feelings for other women as well - I don't think it was just Nikki then as I think he was also really into Andi and Sharleen - and regretted his decision and was trying to be honest with her. i did not see it as his trying to put all of the culpability on her. As a psychologist, I had a problem with Clare's comment in the tv guide article today as it appeared that she was making JuPablo completely responsible for her feelings "he made me feel awful" without any apparent recognition of her role in the experience of her feelings.

docnash14 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Juan Pablo admitted to making a mistake.

I didn't think that he was blaming Clare, but when he tried to express to her that they shouldn't do that again, she didn't see what he was saying, he tried multiple ways to tell her that they shouldn't do it again.  But, until he brought up Camila, Clare wouldn't see that they shouldn't do it again.

I don't know if he decided it was bad on his own, if the date with Nikki brought perspective, I can't tell yet.  But he did regret his decision, and yet that doesn't see, to count for anything.

I remember one of the chief complaints about Ben with Courtney was his lack of feeling sorry about what they did, but when Juan Pablo feels bad right away and then tries to fix it he is a bad guy.  

Seems weird to me.

I don't know if Juan Pablo fell in love.  I think he likes some of the women, but I don't think he enjoyed being the lead.  I don't hate him, understand others don't like him, but I have been surprised with how much I have actually found him to be okay.  I like him a lot more than I liked Ben, Jake or even Jason in the role.

I agree with both what you and pbmax are saying.  In the beginning of the season Chris H. said something along the lines that JuPablo didn't fully understand the process and never fully engaged (I translate that as his not being willing to play by the producers' rules  and go along with their machinations).  And, indeed, that has been demonstrated by some of his tweets in which he has tried to set the record straight with some of the edit manipulations.  As far as the thing with Clare, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris H made that comment as pay-back to JuPablo for not following orders and also wouldn't be surprised if Juan purposely mentioned in his blog that he didn't follow Chris H's advice (to wait to talk to Clare) in an effort to make the statement that he wasn't a puppet.  And let's not forget the preview clip in which JuPablo stops a PI and walks out.

I personally think he's getting a much worse rap than he deserves.  For instance, RS is making him out to be the scum of the earth for letting Cassandra go on her birthday.  However, it appears that she may approach him about missing her child and so JuPablo decides to let her go so that she can be with her son for her birthday and wants to spare her the humiliation of the RC.  And it's clear to me that he sincerely hates those ceremonies and that it hurts him to hurt others.

As far as Clare, no doubt that there was strong chemistry from the get go.  And, if he is following suit with Sean's philosophy, he tried to focus completely on the woman he was with at the time.  So he may have gotten caught up in the moment when Clare invited him to the beach but, as has been stated, when he was at the cocktail party, realized he was having feelings for other women as well - I don't think it was just Nikki then as I think he was also really into Andi and Sharleen - and regretted his decision and was trying to be honest with her.  i did not see it as his trying to put all of the culpability on her.  As a psychologist, I had a problem with Clare's comment in the tv guide article today as it appeared that she was making JuPablo completely responsible for her feelings "he made me feel awful" without any apparent recognition of her role in the experience of her feelings.

Thank you for so eloquently stating what I have been trying to say!    

docnash14 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Juan Pablo admitted to making a mistake.

I didn't think that he was blaming Clare, but when he tried to express to her that they shouldn't do that again, she didn't see what he was saying, he tried multiple ways to tell her that they shouldn't do it again.  But, until he brought up Camila, Clare wouldn't see that they shouldn't do it again.

I don't know if he decided it was bad on his own, if the date with Nikki brought perspective, I can't tell yet.  But he did regret his decision, and yet that doesn't see, to count for anything.

I remember one of the chief complaints about Ben with Courtney was his lack of feeling sorry about what they did, but when Juan Pablo feels bad right away and then tries to fix it he is a bad guy.  

Seems weird to me.

I don't know if Juan Pablo fell in love.  I think he likes some of the women, but I don't think he enjoyed being the lead.  I don't hate him, understand others don't like him, but I have been surprised with how much I have actually found him to be okay.  I like him a lot more than I liked Ben, Jake or even Jason in the role.

I agree with both what you and pbmax are saying.  In the beginning of the season Chris H. said something along the lines that JuPablo didn't fully understand the process and never fully engaged (I translate that as his not being willing to play by the producers' rules  and go along with their machinations).  And, indeed, that has been demonstrated by some of his tweets in which he has tried to set the record straight with some of the edit manipulations.  As far as the thing with Clare, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris H made that comment as pay-back to JuPablo for not following orders and also wouldn't be surprised if Juan purposely mentioned in his blog that he didn't follow Chris H's advice (to wait to talk to Clare) in an effort to make the statement that he wasn't a puppet.  And let's not forget the preview clip in which JuPablo stops a PI and walks out.

I personally think he's getting a much worse rap than he deserves.  For instance, RS is making him out to be the scum of the earth for letting Cassandra go on her birthday.  However, it appears that she may approach him about missing her child and so JuPablo decides to let her go so that she can be with her son for her birthday and wants to spare her the humiliation of the RC.  And it's clear to me that he sincerely hates those ceremonies and that it hurts him to hurt others.

As far as Clare, no doubt that there was strong chemistry from the get go.  And, if he is following suit with Sean's philosophy, he tried to focus completely on the woman he was with at the time.  So he may have gotten caught up in the moment when Clare invited him to the beach but, as has been stated, when he was at the cocktail party, realized he was having feelings for other women as well - I don't think it was just Nikki then as I think he was also really into Andi and Sharleen - and regretted his decision and was trying to be honest with her.  i did not see it as his trying to put all of the culpability on her.  As a psychologist, I had a problem with Clare's comment in the tv guide article today as it appeared that she was making JuPablo completely responsible for her feelings "he made me feel awful" without any apparent recognition of her role in the experience of her feelings.

Oh Doc, you understand this show so well! Great post!

This is also a great read;

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/grtfl-bachelor-real-world-vanderpump-rules/

docnash14 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Juan Pablo admitted to making a mistake.

I didn't think that he was blaming Clare, but when he tried to express to her that they shouldn't do that again, she didn't see what he was saying, he tried multiple ways to tell her that they shouldn't do it again.  But, until he brought up Camila, Clare wouldn't see that they shouldn't do it again.

I don't know if he decided it was bad on his own, if the date with Nikki brought perspective, I can't tell yet.  But he did regret his decision, and yet that doesn't see, to count for anything.

I remember one of the chief complaints about Ben with Courtney was his lack of feeling sorry about what they did, but when Juan Pablo feels bad right away and then tries to fix it he is a bad guy.  

Seems weird to me.

I don't know if Juan Pablo fell in love.  I think he likes some of the women, but I don't think he enjoyed being the lead.  I don't hate him, understand others don't like him, but I have been surprised with how much I have actually found him to be okay.  I like him a lot more than I liked Ben, Jake or even Jason in the role.

I agree with both what you and pbmax are saying.  In the beginning of the season Chris H. said something along the lines that JuPablo didn't fully understand the process and never fully engaged (I translate that as his not being willing to play by the producers' rules  and go along with their machinations).  And, indeed, that has been demonstrated by some of his tweets in which he has tried to set the record straight with some of the edit manipulations.  As far as the thing with Clare, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris H made that comment as pay-back to JuPablo for not following orders and also wouldn't be surprised if Juan purposely mentioned in his blog that he didn't follow Chris H's advice (to wait to talk to Clare) in an effort to make the statement that he wasn't a puppet.  And let's not forget the preview clip in which JuPablo stops a PI and walks out.

I personally think he's getting a much worse rap than he deserves.  For instance, RS is making him out to be the scum of the earth for letting Cassandra go on her birthday.  However, it appears that she may approach him about missing her child and so JuPablo decides to let her go so that she can be with her son for her birthday and wants to spare her the humiliation of the RC.  And it's clear to me that he sincerely hates those ceremonies and that it hurts him to hurt others.

As far as Clare, no doubt that there was strong chemistry from the get go.  And, if he is following suit with Sean's philosophy, he tried to focus completely on the woman he was with at the time.  So he may have gotten caught up in the moment when Clare invited him to the beach but, as has been stated, when he was at the cocktail party, realized he was having feelings for other women as well - I don't think it was just Nikki then as I think he was also really into Andi and Sharleen - and regretted his decision and was trying to be honest with her.  i did not see it as his trying to put all of the culpability on her.  As a psychologist, I had a problem with Clare's comment in the tv guide article today as it appeared that she was making JuPablo completely responsible for her feelings "he made me feel awful" without any apparent recognition of her role in the experience of her feelings.

I agree, especially with the 2nd and 3rd paragraph.   

Good post above.

I'm also a little surprised at all of the hate from RS and on here. Sure, he isn't the sharpest tool - but clearly someone's watching. The ratings are looking pretty good for them (easily beating the last Bach season). This is always more important to them than the success of the couple, because, really, even well-intentioned, 'nice' people rarely last. I have about zero hope for JP and his chosen one, but keep it entertaining and I'll keep watching.