*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions

Episode 2 – odds and ends

Spoilers Alert... don't read if you haven't seen the show yet.

Word Of The Day: vulnerable. When Clare says Juan helps her feel “vulnerable”, I didn’t quite feel it as strongly as I did with Andi. After all, Andi literally had to get “vulnerable” buck naked in a doggie photo shoot. Juan is OK getting naked since he’s Nature Boy like Lucy, but Andi had to struggle. Unfortunately Amy tried her best to get “vulnerable” as a Bachelor Reporter, but couldn’t fast enough since she and Chantel got dumped at the rose ceremony.

I absolutely love Clare. I really do. She is up there among my favorites.

However… let’s be honest. She is kinda overly sunshiny in a Barbie sort of way. When she says “Juan smells like heaven in a bottle”, I was… um… hmmm… speechless. She also says this could be the first date with her future husband (when did I hear that before?) and, of course, Juan can “see myself” and Camilla with her. Sometimes I find myself laughing unintentionally when she says “this is ridiculous”, the “perfect fairytale”, “unreal” and “surreal”. Something about her sing-songy delivery just makes me laugh. I know I am not supposed to, but I still do.

Now… her daddy talk was more serious and did bring me off the helium balloon. When she gets tearful, I do feel for her. When she “hot-tubs” with Juan like a sex-kitten, I can only guess what high pitch squeals she is capable of.

Juan is all about “surprising” ladies. He is focused on surprising Clare with her winter wonderland and the romantic (huh?) “when dark clouds come” song playing. (Ooooh boy!)

Kat is equally surprised by Juan on her solo date. Her “man of my dreams” keeps her happy when “the surprises just keep coming”. Considering her date was a wild and very colorful trip to an electronic lights dance at Salt Lake City’s Electric Run, it was surprising that it was so short. I guess Kat is not high on the totem pole of a Bachelor focused more on dogs.

No… I am not insinuating that his other ladies are dogs. Well… maybe Victoria is. As she says “I’m not a dog. I’m just a bitch.” The less I get into her performance, the better. Anyway, she’s off the show now.

The dogs, of course, were the real ones on the next date. Even though Clare and Kat’s dates seemed a trifle cheesy to me, the “say cheese” date was not cheesy at all. As Kelly commented, she is just as good at eating cheese as delivering it. Good to see the dog lover win the rose on the date Molly couldn’t attend.

Sneaky Elise got away from doing her nude scene by exchanging the fire hydrant (!) with Lucy the Hippy. As a result, Andi had to be the… *drink!*… “vulnerable” one outside her comfort zone.

The editing of Cassandra and Renee’s 1 on 1 times with Juan, post photo shoot, was a pretty lackluster idea. We saw plenty of them together later in the episode, so why on the group date too? Isn’t it bad enough that Juan keeps telling us every 15 minutes about his dawter that we have to have two ladies sing about their sons together at the same time?

Last season we lucked out with Good Dad Brad and Bad Dad Ben, since Emily’s season already had Good Dad Tony and Good-if-slightly-feisty Dad Doug. Yet this season gives us two Good Moms for the price of one. Cassandra wanting to pull a Tony before the rose ceremony and Doug… oops, I mean Renee… stopping her from doing it, along with Juan, felt too much like déjà vu.

Juan loves his blondes, even in the M&M commercial showcasing him. So the fact that Nikki is one (whether natural or bleached) is an added plus. Nikki reminds me a lot of Ali Fedotowsky. Although he is constantly commenting on how cute she is, the two do make a slightly boring couple… on screen. Now… IF… she is F1, this explains 90% of the drama. It is as if half the cast was required to juggle bowling pins and do trapeze acts… or get drunk in bathroom stalls… simply to distract us from the “obvious” connection.

One “red flag” or storyline “foreshadow” with Juan/Nikki did surface. At the rose ceremony, when discussing the decisions he must make, Nikki is spotlighted over “hopefully I made the right ones”. Anything is possible with that line. I guess this means his relationship with her isn’t quite as smooth sailing as Clare’s, who… after all… says Juan smells like heaven in a bottle.

Sharleen gets the award for best 180 degree turnaround, apologizing for being “aloof” in the previous show. Time to put her back in the running as a frontrunner-of-sorts. Or else she will have to get drunk on a bathroom stall so they can have A Show.

DMBFan wrote:

Sprite wrote:

DMBFan wrote:Just watched last nights show - so Clare's bio got shown a 2nd time? Next bachelorette, I think!

Or being set up for big time heartbreak. I still think MF would think she is too old for the Bette as they are all in their mid 20's...with the exception of Trista but that was so long ago that I don't apply anything from that far back.

That's true.  I didn't realize she was 32 until I saw that clip again today.  How old is JuanPablo?

He is also 32.

JBF
In the previews, I also noticed that Sharleen had two separate scenes where the other women observe her and JPa kissing. Is this relevant to Sean's warning not to kiss in front of the other women or is it a way to showcase a relationship in an otherwise invisible role? And if so, how? Or am I totally off base and missing the point, if there is one?  

I also think Clare is being set up as the next bachelorette. She has the tragic backstory, a DVD for her fiancé to be, and is just cute and perky enough to pull it off. Her age is the only drawback I see, although MF might not care at this point.

We'll have to see how Sharleen's scenes play out. The promos often suggest "other stuff" than what we eventually see.

HOWEVER... when Sean told him NOT to kiss in front of the others, Juan took it as a "cue". If he doesn't, there would be no catfights or feisty jealous PI sessions on screen.

I don't see any problem at all with Clare's age. If anything else, she can be billed as the oldest (and wisest) Bachelorette, since Byron was the first Bachelor in his 40s.

JBF wrote:We'll have to see how Sharleen's scenes play out. The promos often suggest "other stuff" than what we eventually see.

HOWEVER... when Sean told him NOT to kiss in front of the others, Juan took it as a "cue". If he doesn't, there would be no catfights or feisty jealous PI sessions on screen.

I don't see any problem at all with Clare's age. If anything else, she can be billed as the oldest (and wisest) Bachelorette, since Byron was the first Bachelor in his 40s.

Unfortunately, we are not doing the casting...MF is and as we all know he likes them young.

It is really early since we only just saw the second episode. Clare seems to be in more of the previews than anyone else and the fact that she seems to be falling so fast for JPab just screams that they are setting her up for heartbreak and the runner up spot....which has not produced the Bette since Trista. As for Byron, well, he was a man and MF is well known for his double standard when it comes to the sexes. I would personally love to see a slightly more mature Bette, but I'm not sure Clare would necessarily be the one that I would pick. She just seems to be too vulnerable and rather needy. I'd prefer someone more like a Renee or a Sharleen who seem more level headed and not quite as emotional. Of course, that is not what MF wants...the more of a mess the better he likes it. Just watch, after I said this, both Renee and Sharleen probably turn into blubbering messes next week!

I'm not sure what to think regarding Clare. When she gets tearful about her dad, I feel like I am seeing the REAL Clare... and how she would be as a future lead. Her scenes with Juan have yet to "wow" me though. She repeated word-for-word Brooks' line on his first date: "this could be the first date with my future wife" (substituting "husband" of course). Although I wasn't as sold on the Des/Brooks love story as so many others were (and was snickering during the Antigua meltdown), he did sound very methodical in all of his lines, as if thinking things through. Clare is a bit too quick-with-the-trigger in her lines.

It does seem like Clare's "role" is to be the opposite of sorts of Nikki and Andi. The former tells us in her bio that she doesn't just want that instant two weeks of "head over heels" infatuation. The latter already sabotaged her chances as F1 in my book by saying she doesn't care what Juan says as long as he keeps the accent.

JBF wrote:I'm not sure what to think regarding Clare. When she gets tearful about her dad, I feel like I am seeing the REAL Clare... and how she would be as a future lead. Her scenes with Juan have yet to "wow" me though. She repeated word-for-word Brooks' line on his first date: "this could be the first date with my future wife" (substituting "husband" of course). Although I wasn't as sold on the Des/Brooks love story as so many others were (and was snickering during the Antigua meltdown), he did sound very methodical in all of his lines, as if thinking things through. Clare is a bit too quick-with-the-trigger in her lines.

It does seem like Clare's "role" is to be the opposite of sorts of Nikki and Andi. The former tells us in her bio that she doesn't just want that instant two weeks of "head over heels" infatuation. The latter already sabotaged her chances as F1 in my book by saying she doesn't care what Juan says as long as he keeps the accent.

I do agree about the real Clare coming out when she speaks about her dad, however, like you I'm not so sure the rest of the time. Last night, watching her gushing about a man she just met seemed so over the top...even more than usual for this show...when as you said, many of the usual stock lines were delivered. Either she is REALLY auditioning hard for the next Bette or she is just too gullible/needy.

They're pushing Clare on us for some reason. I don't know if I see her being the next lead when there's some in the age group Fleiss prefers like Andi & Nikki. I think she's pretty & seems to be nice but nothing that would make me take notice if they didn't show so much of her.

Thought I would jot down my impressions/remembrances from last night's episode as it pertains to who we believe to be the final 6. In no particular order...

Chelsie -- we still haven't seen a lot of her. The fact that she was selected to wear the poofy hair makes me think she's not high on Juan's (or the producers's) radar at this point. She continues to get the goofy girl edit. It was either in the show or in the preview that someone mentions that she's just a girl, not a woman who's ready for a serious relationship (not verbatim, but that's the essence).

Renee -- I want her to be my mom. She was so comforting and nurturing to anyone who was having a hard time. She's not getting caught up in the competition of this process. I was highly impressed with her attempts to calm Victoria down. It was gutsy to try to help someone she hardly knew and who was acting a little crazy. I think a lot of people would pull away from someone like Victoria at that moment, not wanting Juan to associate you with her behavior. She was equally supportive of Cassandra, even to the point of encouraging her to stay...seemingly a very selfless act to me. A less mature person might want to knock out some of the competition, but she didn't take advantage of Cassandra like others might have. BUT, I do not get the vibe from Juan that he is as strongly interested in her. Yes, he stated how beautiful she was, but he never took the opportunity to kiss her when they alone on the terrace. Certainly he must have known she was open to it from her body language. I feel Juan sees her more as a step-mom possibility for his daughter, but not as a lover...at least not yet.

Sharleen -- Gosh, I haven't quite figured her out. She's a little mysterious...and odd. Perhaps it just nerves and the discomfort of being in this situation. My gut says she's here to be the next Bachelorette (in her mind) or at least raise her profile. She comes with quite an interesting background. So far, though, I experience her as aloof, and thus I'm not sure that the audience is going to like her that much. Looks like she causes some issues with kissing Juan in front of the other girls. Really curious as to how they would do a hometown date with her being from Germany/Canada. Can Juan even see her as being a step-mom to his daughter at this point?

Clare -- She confuses me. She's beautiful and she is definitely being pushed at the audience right now. Hints of emotional neediness and a one dimensional storyline are starting to form. I actually really like her currently, but I fear the edit is going to go against her. Juan is attracted to her, but her playfulness felt a little guarded to me...almost like she was trying too hard. It's like Clare is trying to be what she thinks Juan wants her to be and not just being herself. I suppose, though, this goes along with her describing how she has shut herself down emotionally in the past...so I'm sure this is scary. So far no conversation that hints at her ability to be a mother figure to Camilla. This needs to happen for Juan to choose her as his F1...but we're pretty sure from the caps that she's there at the end. Another red flag is how close Clare is to her family. Isn't she from CA? I don't see her able/willing to move to Miami...too big of a distance.

Nikki -- She's hidden, but at the same time Juan seems to be intrigued by her. In some ways she represents the whole package to Juan. She's caught his attention as a man. You can see his attraction to her, and with her pediatrics nursing background, he seems to trust her ability to be a mother figure to his daughter. She's the best combination so far: lover and mother. Now let's see if there will be a real connection with them. Screen caps indicate yes. Now for me personally, I had two reactions to Nikki. I liked how she initially went to Victoria to caution her about slowing down the drinking. I liked that she tried to have Victoria's back. BUT watching Victoria's meltdown happen with the closed captioning on was informative. When the girls were talking in the pool, they were clearly talking behind Victoria's back. Certain comments were attributed to Nikki by closed captioning that were not flattering to her...not quite mean girl level, but it wouldn't take much for it to go there. Without CC, the viewer wouldn't be sure who said the comments. Nikki's back was to us when she was in the pool. She also seemed to be in the gossip session at the house regarding Victoria. I'm not liking that part of Nikki right now...so, hmmm, not sure what to think.

Andi -- I really liked her this episode. Her dilemma seemed so genuine. I liked how she was able to articulate her struggle to the camera. She didn't get overly emotional. She came across as a very reasoned person, with the classic female struggle...seemingly being forced to choose between her professional career/reputation and her personal life. It was very relate-able to me. The interaction of Andi with Juan was my favorite "Juan moment" of the season. He handled it well. Now, just like Clare, we need to see Andi discuss her readiness to be a mother figure to Camilla. Seemingly, she has a highly success career as a prosecutor...a time intensive job. What would be Juan's expectations for her if they end up together?

 Very well said, Litta.

Litta123 wrote:Thought I would jot down my impressions/remembrances from last night's episode as it pertains to who we believe to be the final 6. In no particular order...

Chelsie -- we still haven't seen a lot of her. The fact that she was selected to wear the poofy hair makes me think she's not high on Juan's (or the producers's) radar at this point. She continues to get the goofy girl edit. It was either in the show or in the preview that someone mentions that she's just a girl, not a woman who's ready for a serious relationship (not verbatim, but that's the essence).

Oh I couldn't resist adding my own two cents. Forgive me!

I love the science nerd. She is simply "comedy relief", nothing more. In the promos, she appears to get feisty as a drama queen too. My favorite moment was in episode #1 when she actually noticed the lipstick on Juan's face that was not noticed by Renee in the earlier scene. Yet she simply laughed and wiped it off. No hint of jealousy at all. She may not be all that "into" Juan, but is here to enjoy The Party.

Renee -- I want her to be my mom. She was so comforting and nurturing to anyone who was having a hard time. She's not getting caught up in the competition of this process. I was highly impressed with her attempts to calm Victoria down. It was gutsy to try to help someone she hardly knew and who was acting a little crazy. I think a lot of people would pull away from someone like Victoria at that moment, not wanting Juan to associate you with her behavior. She was equally supportive of Cassandra, even to the point of encouraging her to stay...seemingly a very selfless act to me. A less mature person might want to knock out some of the competition, but she didn't take advantage of Cassandra like others might have. BUT, I do not get the vibe from Juan that he is as strongly interested in her. Yes, he stated how beautiful she was, but he never took the opportunity to kiss her when they alone on the terrace. Certainly he must have known she was open to it from her body language. I feel Juan sees her more as a step-mom possibility for his daughter, but not as a lover...at least not yet.

I don't think she is all that into Juan either, except as a friend. Both say they have so much in common and that is very true. It is also why some of us don't see a connection.

Sharleen -- Gosh, I haven't quite figured her out. She's a little mysterious...and odd. Perhaps it just nerves and the discomfort of being in this situation. My gut says she's here to be the next Bachelorette (in her mind) or at least raise her profile. She comes with quite an interesting background. So far, though, I experience her as aloof, and thus I'm not sure that the audience is going to like her that much. Looks like she causes some issues with kissing Juan in front of the other girls. Really curious as to how they would do a hometown date with her being from Germany/Canada. Can Juan even see her as being a step-mom to his daughter at this point?

From the way Chris Harrison brags about her, I am wondering if HE plans to date her. May have told Juan to keep her for a while so they can "merge" off camera.

Clare -- She confuses me. She's beautiful and she is definitely being pushed at the audience right now. Hints of emotional neediness and a one dimensional storyline are starting to form. I actually really like her currently, but I fear the edit is going to go against her. Juan is attracted to her, but her playfulness felt a little guarded to me...almost like she was trying too hard. It's like Clare is trying to be what she thinks Juan wants her to be and not just being herself. I suppose, though, this goes along with her describing how she has shut herself down emotionally in the past...so I'm sure this is scary. So far no conversation that hints at her ability to be a mother figure to Camilla. This needs to happen for Juan to choose her as his F1...but we're pretty sure from the caps that she's there at the end. Another red flag is how close Clare is to her family. Isn't she from CA? I don't see her able/willing to move to Miami...too big of a distance.

Already I'm suspecting she is NOT "the one". Why?

Well... it is too soon to determine. She only had one date, but I picked up on another "red flag". Pronoun trouble.

Although Clare was constantly drooling over Juan, saying he smelled like heaven in a bottle and so forth... AND Juan did say he could picture her with himself and his daughter, this was as far as her "final one" potential went.

During the rest of the date, Juan kept using the pronouns "she" and "her". So much was made about "surprising her" and "seeing her expression/reaction". Of course, seeing Clare happy made Juan happy, but there was a certain aloofness in his voice-overs and PI sessions.

This is like Des using a lot of "he" and "him" on all her dates EXCEPT Chris', which used those same pronouns occasionally but also employed a great deal of "we" and "us". Typical line in episode #5: "I’m really excited for today’s date to explore Munich with our trusty phrase book. We will look like silly tourists." These were her opening lines for Chris' first solo date.

Brook's first solo date began with these lines: "I really like that today’s going to start off with showing Brooks my life and giving him a little slice of what it is like to be in my shoes. It is really important for the guys to know that I have a desire and a passion to design wedding dresses. I really want Brooks to see that part of my life."

Likewise, we got these lines from Brooks and Chris... note that Brooks actually uses "we" at least once, while Chris does not. However, you still sense that Chris views himself WITH Des while Brooks is still more like an observer on his date.
Brooks in Hollywood: “We showed up at a cupcake truck and it was a mob scene. They are in love with Desiree. She held it like a champion. She was so nice to everybody.”
Chris in Munich: “I’m really happy to get to share this experience with Des. Both Des and I have never been here before. It’s her first time and it’s my first time and today’s perfect. The day’s going perfect and it will continue to get better. I don’t think anything can go wrong.” (Then Bryden shows up... dum dee dum dum)

Sean used a lot of "we" and "us" with Catherine. I was just watching their Alberta date and the editors even did some splice and dice with Sean to MAKE SURE there is enough "we" and "us" even if he didn't use a lot in reality. "Today's date with Catherine is very important. I desperately need to turn things around this week. (splice) But WE are getting pelted by snow flakes!"

Going back a few seasons, Ashley H. commented on the Taiwan group date that she chose traditional wedding outfits for Lucas because he is a traditional southern guy and that was the best outfit for him. She then said JP (her F1) lucked out with the tux because that was the best outfit for "US".

Sssssssooooo... what is my point? Well, if Juan says a lot of "we" and "us" and his F1 lady uses similar talk, then you can bet they are still communicating with each other at the time the episode was edited. If Juan talks of every woman on the show more as "she/her" rather than "we/us", then he probably chose nobody in the end.

Again, we need to see how Clare is discussed on her next date... so we can't rule her out just yet.

Nikki -- She's hidden, but at the same time Juan seems to be intrigued by her. In some ways she represents the whole package to Juan. She's caught his attention as a man. You can see his attraction to her, and with her pediatrics nursing background, he seems to trust her ability to be a mother figure to his daughter. She's the best combination so far: lover and mother. Now let's see if there will be a real connection with them. Screen caps indicate yes. Now for me personally, I had two reactions to Nikki. I liked how she initially went to Victoria to caution her about slowing down the drinking. I liked that she tried to have Victoria's back. BUT watching Victoria's meltdown happen with the closed captioning on was informative. When the girls were talking in the pool, they were clearly talking behind Victoria's back. Certain comments were attributed to Nikki by closed captioning that were not flattering to her...not quite mean girl level, but it wouldn't take much for it to go there. Without CC, the viewer wouldn't be sure who said the comments. Nikki's back was to us when she was in the pool. She also seemed to be in the gossip session at the house regarding Victoria. I'm not liking that part of Nikki right now...so, hmmm, not sure what to think.

She is a little like Ali F., isn't she? I will say this much in her favor. Victoria did make enough of a spectacle of herself that everybody probably had something to say.

Then again... MAYBE... Victoria's breakdown foreshadows one that Nikki has that we may or may not see on screen. Her comments about Victoria could apply to herself some day. Who knows?

She also wants to be "head over heels" in love, but not just for the first two weeks. That is her storyline so far. She had Juan check her heart even if she wasn't exactly hopping up and down in ecstasy like Amy the masseur. Sooo... we shall seeeee.

Andi -- I really liked her this episode. Her dilemma seemed so genuine. I liked how she was able to articulate her struggle to the camera. She didn't get overly emotional. She came across as a very reasoned person, with the classic female struggle...seemingly being forced to choose between her professional career/reputation and her personal life. It was very relate-able to me. The interaction of Andi with Juan was my favorite "Juan moment" of the season. He handled it well. Now, just like Clare, we need to see Andi discuss her readiness to be a mother figure to Camilla. Seemingly, she has a highly success career as a prosecutor...a time intensive job. What would be Juan's expectations for her if they end up together?

She is an interesting character. I guess my "pronoun" discussion will be fun to apply to both her and Nikki on their dates.

^^JBF, I am not defending Victoria nor her behavior in any way. Clearly she was out of control that night. BUT, if you go back and watch that scene again, listen closely. It's clear to me that Nikki is telling her version of the conversation that she had with Victoria. Her tone is making fun of Victoria and the other girls are laughing.

My interpretation is that she, Nikki, wasn't staying above the "ugliness" that was occurring that night. The conversation that Renee has with Victoria is choppy, but all the previews made it look like Victoria was most upset with Juan. Her words to Renee, however, communicate that she is upset with the girls. Closed captioning doesn't pick up the entire dialog, but gets the essence of it. Here are a few key statements:

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What does this mean in the grand scheme of things? I have no idea. All I know is that Catherine, for the most part, was edited as having stayed out of the Tierra mess. Here we have in episode 2, Nikki getting in the mix of things. At least when Clare has her confrontation with Nikki, Clare does it to her face. Ugh, I hope this is not going to turn into one of those seasons! I'll be mad that I've wasted so much time on this if it does.