The Bachelor 18 - Screencaps Discussion - *Spoilers*

atem wrote:I don't agree with you guys.  Chris Harrison does this every season.  I guess the only exception is Emily, but I didn't watch her season.  

No, I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree.  CH and TPTB have been horrible to Juan Pablo.  They have done their very best to discredit him and make him look like an unintelligent, shallow, player who did not care about the girls at all!  If it wasn't for things that a very small handful of the girls coming out and saying otherwise, most would believe everything CH and TPTB are spewing about him.  They are not backing him up AT ALL and, IMO, treating him way worse that they have EVER treated any of the past leads!!  

Sorry, but I feel so strongly about this and I am so disappointed and disgusted with TPTB and CH that I still haven't decided if I will watch next season or just come on here.    

George1218 wrote:

atem wrote:I don't agree with you guys.  Chris Harrison does this every season.  I guess the only exception is Emily, but I didn't watch her season.  

No, I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree.  CH and TPTB have been horrible to Juan Pablo.  They have done their very best to discredit him and make him look like an unintelligent, shallow, player who did not care about the girls at all!  If it wasn't for things that a very small handful of the girls coming out and saying otherwise, most would believe everything CH and TPTB are spewing about him.  They are not backing him up AT ALL and, IMO, treating him way worse that they have EVER treated any of the past leads!!  

Sorry, but I feel so strongly about this and I am so disappointed and disgusted with TPTB and CH that I still haven't decided if I will watch next season or just come on here.    

I agree w/you. Juan Pablo has not been the worst bachelor they have ever had. There were some pretty bad ones in the beginning (Jessie and Bob come to mind), but I think Juan Pablo has been treated worse than any other bachelor. I think the worst bachelor has been Ben. And although CH and TPTB didn't treat him that great, they still treated him better than Juan Pablo. I think Ben's skinny dipping in the ocean w/Courtney was the most disrespectful thing that any of the bachelors have ever done on any of the seasons. Yes, Juan Pablo did swim in the ocean w/Clare, but that is way different than skinny dipping w/one of the contestants, and I think Ben did that when there were still at least 10 or 12 girls there. If he had only gone for a swim in the ocean w/Courtney, I don't think it would have been bad at all. There have been many past contestants that have sought out the lead to spend extra time w/them (I am sure producer-prompted), but to skinny dip w/someone is beyond disrespectful, imo.

I was not the biggest Juan Pablo fan in the beginning. I will admit that I was not that enthused about him being the bachelor. But one thing I can say about him is that he never pretended to be anything that he's not. He did not actually pursue and market himself to be the bachelor. TPTB came to him. I don't think he thought he stood a chance to be the bachelor because he was not one of Des's top choices. I don't think he knew how the show worked when he went on Des's season, and even now being the lead, I still don't think he knows how the show works. I have come to respect him for being his own person and not changing because TPTB wanted him to fake it for a reality show. Yeah he can be blunt and rude, but at least he is being himself. During the WTA, one of the bachelorettes (I can't remember her name - she was the one that rode up on the piano bike on the first night) blasted him for using his daughter as an excuse not to kiss her when she tried to during her last rose ceremony cocktail party instead of saying that he didn't want to kiss her because he didn't feel it w/her. I call BS on that. If Juan Pablo actually told her that, then he would have had to let her go then and there. She would have probably blasted him for being too blunt and hurtful. I think Juan Pablo did not like having to let the women go because he did not like hurting their feelings and when he told her that he couldn't kiss her because of his daughter, I think he was trying to spare her feelings. I think the only time he really showed dishonesty was instances like that when he tried to spare someone's feelings. Yes, other times he is blunt and rude and too honest - almost to a fault. But at least that is the way it has been from the beginning. Many other bachelors and bachelorettes are dishonest when near the end of filming they start spouting that they don't know who they are going to choose and that they are falling in love with multiple people (even though they have probably known who their F1 was going to be for a long time), so they are being dishonest in that respect. I think Juan Pablo refused to play along w/TPTB's shenanigans, and he is paying for it in his edit. I am looking forward to the finale because I can't wait to see how this all plays out. I also can't wait to see what Juan Pablo has to say about his experience as the bachelor in the weeks and months after the finale. I think we will learn some interesting things about the process.

Sable wrote:

George1218 wrote:

atem wrote:I don't agree with you guys.  Chris Harrison does this every season.  I guess the only exception is Emily, but I didn't watch her season.  

No, I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree.  CH and TPTB have been horrible to Juan Pablo.  They have done their very best to discredit him and make him look like an unintelligent, shallow, player who did not care about the girls at all!  If it wasn't for things that a very small handful of the girls coming out and saying otherwise, most would believe everything CH and TPTB are spewing about him.  They are not backing him up AT ALL and, IMO, treating him way worse that they have EVER treated any of the past leads!!  

Sorry, but I feel so strongly about this and I am so disappointed and disgusted with TPTB and CH that I still haven't decided if I will watch next season or just come on here.    

I agree w/you.  Juan Pablo has not been the worst bachelor they have ever had.  There were some pretty bad ones in the beginning (Jessie and Bob come to mind), but I think Juan Pablo has been treated worse than any other bachelor.  I think the worst bachelor has been Ben.  And although CH and TPTB didn't treat him that great, they still treated him better than Juan Pablo.  I think Ben's skinny dipping in the ocean w/Courtney was the most disrespectful thing that any of the bachelors have ever done on any of the seasons.  Yes, Juan Pablo did swim in the ocean w/Clare, but that is way different than skinny dipping w/one of the contestants, and I think Ben did that when there were still at least 10 or 12 girls there.  If he had only gone for a swim in the ocean w/Courtney, I don't think it would have been bad at all.  There have been many past contestants that have sought out the lead to spend extra time w/them (I am sure producer-prompted), but to skinny dip w/someone is beyond disrespectful, imo.

I was not the biggest Juan Pablo fan in the beginning.  I will admit that I was not that enthused about him being the bachelor.  But one thing I can say about him is that he never pretended to be anything that he's not.  He did not actually pursue and market himself to be the bachelor.  TPTB came to him.  I don't think he thought he stood a chance to be the bachelor because he was not one of Des's top choices.  I don't think he knew how the show worked when he went on Des's season, and even now being the lead, I still don't think he knows how the show works.  I have come to respect him for being his own person and not changing because TPTB wanted him to fake it for a reality show.  Yeah he can be blunt and rude, but at least he is being himself.  During the WTA, one of the bachelorettes (I can't remember her name - she was the one that rode up on the piano bike on the first night) blasted him for using his daughter as an excuse not to kiss her when she tried to during her last rose ceremony cocktail party instead of saying that he didn't want to kiss her because he didn't feel it w/her.  I call BS on that.  If Juan Pablo actually told her that, then he would have had to let her go then and there.  She would have probably blasted him for being too blunt and hurtful.  I think Juan Pablo did not like having to let the women go because he did not like hurting their feelings and when he told her that he couldn't kiss her because of his daughter, I think he was trying to spare her feelings.  I think the only time he really showed dishonesty was instances like that when he tried to spare someone's feelings.  Yes, other times he is blunt and rude and too honest - almost to a fault.  But at least that is the way it has been from the beginning.  Many other bachelors and bachelorettes are dishonest when near the end of filming they start spouting that they don't know who they are going to choose and that they are falling in love with multiple people (even though they have probably known who their F1 was going to be for a long time), so they are being dishonest in that respect.  I think Juan Pablo refused to play along w/TPTB's shenanigans, and he is paying for it in his edit.  I am looking forward to the finale because I can't wait to see how this all plays out.  I also can't wait to see what Juan Pablo has to say about his experience as the bachelor in the weeks and months after the finale.  I think we will learn some interesting things about the process.

Sable, ITA. I wonder if JP will be able to tell us what really happened because of his contract. I hope he can. I think if we really knew what happened behind the scenes many of us would be appalled....many are already appalled.  JP refused to play the game, I say good for him!!!  :Clap: 

I seem to be quite the minority here, but any disdain that Chris Harrison and TPTB have for JP is shared by me.  He may be treated differently, but he's also the only Bachelor on record calling the gay community perverts.  I can't help to think that any decision to throw him under the bus might have been a business move more than anything.  Almost like they're saying, "Yes, he made bigoted comments.  But he's clearly an idiot so his opinions should be discounted and we clearly don't agree with them."  

I think he's an ass, but that's because of his actions on the show not any presentation from TPTB.  His whole, "Look at me" schtick, his discounting of anyone who thinks differently than him, his creepy "special ones" commentary.  Calling it cultural, I think, is degrading to other cultures.  I think he's just a sexist.  Period.  I thought it was interesting that there was no sniping between the women at the WTA.  When has that ever happened before?  I think, behind closed doors, their opinions of JP would be remarkably consistent.  A common enemy tends to unite even the most disparate of personalities.  It's just Renee seems to be the kindest person to ever be on this show and would never speak ill of someone and, just my personal opinion here, opera singer (I'm drawing a complete blank on her name) seems to be embarrassed that she ever had feelings for the dolt.

Anyway, my opinions, probably not worth even the proverbial two cents, and I certainly understand that people could reach the completely opposite conclusions.  But I wanted to say something because the other side seemed unrepresented and I don't think my opinions on JP have been shaped by anyone other than JP.

Kdubs, since you've been bold enough to speak up, I will say I agree with you. Aside from your examples, there is something else 'off' about him that I haven't been able to put my finger on exactly. It may just be that my 'bs' detector went off the first time I saw him and nothing has happened to change that perception.

I don't want to get into a debate about his characteristics - just wanted to put my opinion out there, and I know many of you disagree but that too is ok.

I don't know what this has to do with screencaps. I guess due to there not being any to review?

atem wrote:I don't know what this has to do with screencaps.  I guess due to there not being any to review?

Lol! Oops, caught by the Topic Police!   

 

kdubs_ca wrote:I seem to be quite the minority here, but any disdain that Chris Harrison and TPTB have for JP is shared by me.  He may be treated differently, but he's also the only Bachelor on record calling the gay community perverts.  I can't help to think that any decision to throw him under the bus might have been a business move more than anything.  Almost like they're saying, "Yes, he made bigoted comments.  But he's clearly an idiot so his opinions should be discounted and we clearly don't agree with them."  

I think he's an ass, but that's because of his actions on the show not any presentation from TPTB.  His whole, "Look at me" schtick, his discounting of anyone who thinks differently than him, his creepy "special ones" commentary.  Calling it cultural, I think, is degrading to other cultures.  I think he's just a sexist.  Period.  I thought it was interesting that there was no sniping between the women at the WTA.  When has that ever happened before?  I think, behind closed doors, their opinions of JP would be remarkably consistent.  A common enemy tends to unite even the most disparate of personalities.  It's just Renee seems to be the kindest person to ever be on this show and would never speak ill of someone and, just my personal opinion here, opera singer (I'm drawing a complete blank on her name) seems to be embarrassed that she ever had feelings for the dolt.

Anyway, my opinions, probably not worth even the proverbial two cents, and I certainly understand that people could reach the completely opposite conclusions.  But I wanted to say something because the other side seemed unrepresented and I don't think my opinions on JP have been shaped by anyone other than JP.

  I am also of the mindset that much of the negativity Juanpa is receiving has been deserved. Sorry just my opinion. I do not think he is the innocent victim.

On the topic of the scs. Before I ran out of time yesterday, I started focusing on the caps showing Nikki and Clare crying after their LCDS (I'm fairly sure that's when they are).  One explanation is that each girl was just upset about saying goodbye to JP for the last time, but what if there is another explanation?  What if he had a similar, maybe even clumsy, message for each of them, that neither liked (dare I say it - that he was not feeling like he could propose). It would go along with his theme of being honest and, to say such a thing beforehand would be something new.  Maybe the strange looking ITM with Clare where she says she could have a ring on her finger was designed to divert us from this.   I only really have one small circumstantial thing to back this up, but I figured it was worth looking.  I'm also not sure the producers would allow it.  Thoughts?

Mr Write wrote:On the topic of the scs. Before I ran out of time yesterday, I started focusing on the caps showing Nikki and Clare crying after their LCDS (I'm fairly sure that's when they are).  One explanation is that each girl was just upset about saying goodbye to JP for the last time, but what if there is another explanation?  What if he had a similar, maybe even clumsy, message for each of them, that neither liked (dare I say it - that he was not feeling like he could propose). It would go along with his theme of being honest and, to say such a thing beforehand would be something new.  Maybe the strange looking ITM with Clare where she says she could have a ring on her finger was designed to divert us from this.   I only really have one small circumstantial thing to back this up, but I figured it was worth looking.  I'm also not sure the producers would allow it.  Thoughts?

Those ITMs mean nothing to me. They could just ask her, 'what do you think could happen tomorrow' and she answer with that.

Mr Write wrote:On the topic of the scs. Before I ran out of time yesterday, I started focusing on the caps showing Nikki and Clare crying after their LCDS (I'm fairly sure that's when they are).  One explanation is that each girl was just upset about saying goodbye to JP for the last time, but what if there is another explanation?  What if he had a similar, maybe even clumsy, message for each of them, that neither liked (dare I say it - that he was not feeling like he could propose). It would go along with his theme of being honest and, to say such a thing beforehand would be something new.  Maybe the strange looking ITM with Clare where she says she could have a ring on her finger was designed to divert us from this.   I only really have one small circumstantial thing to back this up, but I figured it was worth looking.  I'm also not sure the producers would allow it.  Thoughts?

Possible but I think, if he has a final 1, he told her his intentions in the fantasy suite.
Why:
Sit down with CH before viewing vids - CH says something about maybe that will help with your decision to which JP replies "maybe not" to which CH says something like " well you haven't made a final decision yet " which really means shut up cowboy because this rodeo ain't done yet.

ja1968 wrote: 

kdubs_ca wrote:I seem to be quite the minority here, but any disdain that Chris Harrison and TPTB have for JP is shared by me.  He may be treated differently, but he's also the only Bachelor on record calling the gay community perverts.  I can't help to think that any decision to throw him under the bus might have been a business move more than anything.  Almost like they're saying, "Yes, he made bigoted comments.  But he's clearly an idiot so his opinions should be discounted and we clearly don't agree with them."  

I think he's an ass, but that's because of his actions on the show not any presentation from TPTB.  His whole, "Look at me" schtick, his discounting of anyone who thinks differently than him, his creepy "special ones" commentary.  Calling it cultural, I think, is degrading to other cultures.  I think he's just a sexist.  Period.  I thought it was interesting that there was no sniping between the women at the WTA.  When has that ever happened before?  I think, behind closed doors, their opinions of JP would be remarkably consistent.  A common enemy tends to unite even the most disparate of personalities.  It's just Renee seems to be the kindest person to ever be on this show and would never speak ill of someone and, just my personal opinion here, opera singer (I'm drawing a complete blank on her name) seems to be embarrassed that she ever had feelings for the dolt.

Anyway, my opinions, probably not worth even the proverbial two cents, and I certainly understand that people could reach the completely opposite conclusions.  But I wanted to say something because the other side seemed unrepresented and I don't think my opinions on JP have been shaped by anyone other than JP.

  I am also of the mindset that much of the negativity Juanpa is receiving has been deserved. Sorry just my opinion. I do not think he is the innocent victim.

Just want to post my complete agreement.