The Bachelor 18 - Screencaps Discussion - *Spoilers*

Mirzam wrote:

notarose wrote:Is this a clue?
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I am not sure its a clue who is F1, but maybe JP and the lady of his choice leave by boat together after the FRC. Actually, according to Mr Write they must, because that is the only #sane way of leaving the FRC spot!

theyearofelan I want to be on that boat with you

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They wouldn't have that shot when the FRC is around noon……

4health wrote:

Mirzam wrote:

notarose wrote:Is this a clue?
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I am not sure its a clue who is F1, but maybe JP and the lady of his choice leave by boat together after the FRC. Actually, according to Mr Write they must, because that is the only #sane way of leaving the FRC spot!

theyearofelan I want to be on that boat with you

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They wouldn't have that shot when the FRC is around noon……

I know, its symbolic.

Mr Write wrote:

4health wrote:

Mr Write wrote:I like treasure hunts!!!

I didn't realize RS has said the FRC was at Cap Maison.  I can't see how that is right.  With respect to the F1, however, I think he is correct.  The wall behind the podium at the FRC faces south.  The women approach from the west. With that in mind, I spent a long time yesterday looking at the sun's azimuth during the day of the FRC, the corresponding shadows, the tides, the raking on the beach and date stamps on the abcmedianet photographs.  All point to Clare arriving first and Nikki second (in my view)

ITA….did you see the SC in question of timestamp with Clare and Chris and Clare has her shoes in hand that the timestamp is only 30+ before Nikki arrives.  SO that would be her walk of shame LOL….A boat would have to pick up Clare and then a boat bring Nikki…so Clare walking with Chris at 10:50 arrival and again at 11:40ish  Clare walking to the boat, so say she arrived at the boat at just before noon Nikki is on the boat at 12:13 and walking on the beach at 12:14 …Clare and Nikki's boats would be passing by each other.  

Yes, I looked at that picture and the others, and came to the same conclusion.  The constraining feature for TPTB was the available sunlight.  There is a hillside to the south which, along with the forest canopy, blocks good light for much of the day.

I sent the following out in a PM yesterday, which summarizes part of the logic.

"The wall behind the podium faces south and the only way to approach that area is up from the west (ie. from the beach).  Because of the forest canopy and a hillside to the south, the best time to get good light for filming is in the middle of the day.  Last November 12, the azimuth of the sunrise at St. Lucia was 108 degrees, and the sunset was 252 degress (ie. a little south of east and a little south of west).  In other words, anyone walking from the beach to site of the FRC would have the sun facing her in the late morning and over her right shoulder later in the day.  Nikki and Clare are shown in scs walking to the FRC in almost exactly the same location.  There is an identical vine/branch behind each of them that shows this to be the case.  As Clare walks toward the podium, the sun has gone behind a cloud but you can still see its rays shining on her right forearm.  When Nikki walks toward the podium the sun is behind her right shoulder.  In other words, Clare approaches the podium earlier than Nikki.  This is supported by the shadows cast by the davits on the boat as each of the F2 arrives, and by the time stamps on the abcmedianet photos.    In addition, Clare goes onto her balcony at the Landings earlier than Nikki.  The overwhelming evidence, therefore, is that Clare arrives first and Nikki arrives second. "

Which I totally agree…..so if the timestamps are correct….and you agree with me that Nikki and Clare's boat cross each other at some time…like with in 15 to 20 minutes.  Yes, the boats can be miles apart and never be close….but my question is still the same….why is it Chris Harrison walking Clare out to the boat after her rejection and not JP…..is that particular SC after the gate and maybe JP just walks her to the gate and then Chris takes her the rest of the way….and if that is the case then the timestamp at that point to the ocean is about how long……she is arriving to the boat dock when…..closer to noon…..and then Nikki is on the boat at 12:13….they were cutting it really short….and your answer is because they had short sunlight time…..man oh man I haven't seen that before with any timestamp of the final ladies…..

Mr Write wrote:Yes, but I thought that was all BS

Going to have to take a break from it and come back fresh tomorrow.

In the meantime, does anyone have a better sc of this.  I'm trying to figure out what JP is reading (card, letter, Fodor guide to St. Lucia!?).  This is at Anse Mamin, btw.
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In this SC it appears he's looking at his hands and it's his thumb we see.

Thanks for the great info about the FRC, Mr Write.      It makes sense to me that the limos brought them to a point and then the boats took them from there. A 45 min boat ride in their gowns doesn't seem right.  It would do a big number on their hair & makeup.  That would also explain CH walking Clare because JP would only walk the f2 out to the boat and then it makes sense for CH to retrieve her when it arrives and take her to the limo.  Her carrying her shoes fits best with her being f2 because there's no way she'd do that coming in since we see her walking in the sand with them.

4health wrote:

Mr Write wrote:

4health wrote:

Mr Write wrote:I like treasure hunts!!!

I didn't realize RS has said the FRC was at Cap Maison.  I can't see how that is right.  With respect to the F1, however, I think he is correct.  The wall behind the podium at the FRC faces south.  The women approach from the west. With that in mind, I spent a long time yesterday looking at the sun's azimuth during the day of the FRC, the corresponding shadows, the tides, the raking on the beach and date stamps on the abcmedianet photographs.  All point to Clare arriving first and Nikki second (in my view)

ITA….did you see the SC in question of timestamp with Clare and Chris and Clare has her shoes in hand that the timestamp is only 30+ before Nikki arrives.  SO that would be her walk of shame LOL….A boat would have to pick up Clare and then a boat bring Nikki…so Clare walking with Chris at 10:50 arrival and again at 11:40ish  Clare walking to the boat, so say she arrived at the boat at just before noon Nikki is on the boat at 12:13 and walking on the beach at 12:14 …Clare and Nikki's boats would be passing by each other.  

Yes, I looked at that picture and the others, and came to the same conclusion.  The constraining feature for TPTB was the available sunlight.  There is a hillside to the south which, along with the forest canopy, blocks good light for much of the day.

I sent the following out in a PM yesterday, which summarizes part of the logic.

"The wall behind the podium faces south and the only way to approach that area is up from the west (ie. from the beach).  Because of the forest canopy and a hillside to the south, the best time to get good light for filming is in the middle of the day.  Last November 12, the azimuth of the sunrise at St. Lucia was 108 degrees, and the sunset was 252 degress (ie. a little south of east and a little south of west).  In other words, anyone walking from the beach to site of the FRC would have the sun facing her in the late morning and over her right shoulder later in the day.  Nikki and Clare are shown in scs walking to the FRC in almost exactly the same location.  There is an identical vine/branch behind each of them that shows this to be the case.  As Clare walks toward the podium, the sun has gone behind a cloud but you can still see its rays shining on her right forearm.  When Nikki walks toward the podium the sun is behind her right shoulder.  In other words, Clare approaches the podium earlier than Nikki.  This is supported by the shadows cast by the davits on the boat as each of the F2 arrives, and by the time stamps on the abcmedianet photos.    In addition, Clare goes onto her balcony at the Landings earlier than Nikki.  The overwhelming evidence, therefore, is that Clare arrives first and Nikki arrives second. "

Which I totally agree…..so if the timestamps are correct….and you agree with me that Nikki and Clare's boat cross each other at some time…like with in 15 to 20 minutes.  Yes, the boats can be miles apart and never be close….but my question is still the same….why is it Chris Harrison walking Clare out to the boat after her rejection and not JP…..is that particular SC after the gate and maybe JP just walks her to the gate and then Chris takes her the rest of the way….and if that is the case then the timestamp at that point to the ocean is about how long……she is arriving to the boat dock when…..closer to noon…..and then Nikki is on the boat at 12:13….they were cutting it really shot….and your answer is because they had shot sunlight time…..man oh man I haven't seen that before with any timestamp of the final ladies…..

Wild speculation, maybe saying goodbye to Clare took too long, didn't RS hint at a major meltdown? So they had to get her out the back, perhaps hold her up somewhere out of sight, until Nikki arrived, so that the two boats wouldn't cross paths? I can't imagine they would have the F2 run into each other at the FRC.

richmondrose wrote:If Nikki saw Clare leaving, she would have known Clare was rejected. Why would Nikki have such a grumpy face as she is being escorted to the FRC? She would have been ecstatic, IMO.  Doesn't make sense to me.

A non-smiling face doesn't necessarily equate with a grumpy one. I would think that even if Nikki did see Clare that wouldn't have circumvented her nervousness and apprehensiveness about what was going to happen. I am pretty sure that as Catherine was making her walk toward Sean she knew the outcome and that didn't keep her from looking extremely nervous - that is, until we saw her brilliant smile as she and Sean locked eyes. So Nikki would still be dealing with the uncertainty about the outcome as in will he propose. And if Nikki has been a long-time viewer of the show, as I suspect most of the women have been, she would know that being the last woman doesn't guarantee that she has it sewn up (just ask Deanna or the F2 in Jesse's season). To derail a tad, CH has said that it was not a Mesnick type of one so I think we can rule out the switcheroo. He didn't rule out a Charlie type of outcome. I may be in the minority but I think JuanPa did take the process seriously (even though I can see how he could easily be misread as it appears that his approach to life is not to take it too seriously except apparently when it comes to the oppression in his country) and, thus, I don't think he would have been manipulated into making a decision that he was not ready to make. So I could see his wanting to continue having a relationship with both to see which relationship continued to evolve. And I can't imagine Clare being amenable to such a "proposal" and, in fact, not sure Nikki would be crazy about the prospect especially given her competition.

On a different note, for those of you who believe Clare is F1, I am curious as to why you think JuanPa would not have spent safe house time with Clare when they were both in LA during the WTA filming weekend (I guess they could have but if they did, it was certainly time limited as JuanPa spent most of that Friday night with Anthony Evans) or why he would use the baseball clip with Nikki in the you tube video about Venezuela given the animosity between the two women (even though I agree that the intent of the video was more political than a spoiler)?

^^ BTW JuanPa's mother also have it on her twitter handle.

Mr Write wrote:I like treasure hunts!!!

I didn't realize RS has said the FRC was at Cap Maison.  I can't see how that is right.  With respect to the F1, however, I think he is correct.  The wall behind the podium at the FRC faces south.  The women approach from the west. With that in mind, I spent a long time yesterday looking at the sun's azimuth during the day of the FRC, the corresponding shadows, the tides, the raking on the beach and date stamps on the abcmedianet photographs.  All point to Clare arriving first and Nikki second (in my view)

Wonder how long it will take for RS after he reads Mr. Write's discoveries to tweet/post a correction?!

albean99 wrote:

Mr Write wrote:Yes, but I thought that was all BS

Going to have to take a break from it and come back fresh tomorrow.

In the meantime, does anyone have a better sc of this.  I'm trying to figure out what JP is reading (card, letter, Fodor guide to St. Lucia!?).  This is at Anse Mamin, btw.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In this SC it appears he's looking at his hands and it's his thumb we see.

Thanks for the great info about the FRC, Mr Write.      It makes sense to me that the limos brought them to a point and then the boats took them from there. A 45 min boat ride in their gowns doesn't seem right.  It would do a big number on their hair & makeup.  That would also explain CH walking Clare because JP would only walk the f2 out to the boat and then it makes sense for CH to retrieve her when it arrives and take her to the limo.  Her carrying her shoes fits best with her being f2 because there's no way she'd do that coming in since we see her walking in the sand with them.

Agreed.  This certainly seems logical to me.  It is only a few minutes boat ride to and from Soufriere, and certainly Clare's boat looks (from its wake) as if its approaching from the south.

Mr Write wrote:

albean99 wrote:

Mr Write wrote:Yes, but I thought that was all BS

Going to have to take a break from it and come back fresh tomorrow.

In the meantime, does anyone have a better sc of this.  I'm trying to figure out what JP is reading (card, letter, Fodor guide to St. Lucia!?).  This is at Anse Mamin, btw.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In this SC it appears he's looking at his hands and it's his thumb we see.

Thanks for the great info about the FRC, Mr Write.      It makes sense to me that the limos brought them to a point and then the boats took them from there. A 45 min boat ride in their gowns doesn't seem right.  It would do a big number on their hair & makeup.  That would also explain CH walking Clare because JP would only walk the f2 out to the boat and then it makes sense for CH to retrieve her when it arrives and take her to the limo.  Her carrying her shoes fits best with her being f2 because there's no way she'd do that coming in since we see her walking in the sand with them.

Agreed.  This certainly seems logical to me.  It is only a few minutes boat ride to and from Soufriere, and certainly Clare's boat looks (from its wake) as if its approaching from the south.

Given the time according to the time stamps on the photographs, do you think it is possible to have gotten Clare out by boat and into a limo before Nikki would be boarding the boat to the FRC?

Mirzam wrote:

Mr Write wrote:

albean99 wrote:

Mr Write wrote:Yes, but I thought that was all BS

Going to have to take a break from it and come back fresh tomorrow.

In the meantime, does anyone have a better sc of this.  I'm trying to figure out what JP is reading (card, letter, Fodor guide to St. Lucia!?).  This is at Anse Mamin, btw.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In this SC it appears he's looking at his hands and it's his thumb we see.

Thanks for the great info about the FRC, Mr Write.      It makes sense to me that the limos brought them to a point and then the boats took them from there. A 45 min boat ride in their gowns doesn't seem right.  It would do a big number on their hair & makeup.  That would also explain CH walking Clare because JP would only walk the f2 out to the boat and then it makes sense for CH to retrieve her when it arrives and take her to the limo.  Her carrying her shoes fits best with her being f2 because there's no way she'd do that coming in since we see her walking in the sand with them.

Agreed.  This certainly seems logical to me.  It is only a few minutes boat ride to and from Soufriere, and certainly Clare's boat looks (from its wake) as if its approaching from the south.

Given the time according to the time stamps on the photographs, do you think it is possible to have gotten Clare out by boat and into a limo before Nikki would be boarding the boat to the FRC?

I think so, but if and only if, they went somewhere close - like Soufriere.  Alternatively, they could have a second boat to take F2 away.  In Ashley's season Ben arrived by plane and left by boat (I think)

Mr Write wrote:

Mirzam wrote:

Mr Write wrote:

albean99 wrote:

Mr Write wrote:Yes, but I thought that was all BS

Going to have to take a break from it and come back fresh tomorrow.

In the meantime, does anyone have a better sc of this.  I'm trying to figure out what JP is reading (card, letter, Fodor guide to St. Lucia!?).  This is at Anse Mamin, btw.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In this SC it appears he's looking at his hands and it's his thumb we see.

Thanks for the great info about the FRC, Mr Write.      It makes sense to me that the limos brought them to a point and then the boats took them from there. A 45 min boat ride in their gowns doesn't seem right.  It would do a big number on their hair & makeup.  That would also explain CH walking Clare because JP would only walk the f2 out to the boat and then it makes sense for CH to retrieve her when it arrives and take her to the limo.  Her carrying her shoes fits best with her being f2 because there's no way she'd do that coming in since we see her walking in the sand with them.

Agreed.  This certainly seems logical to me.  It is only a few minutes boat ride to and from Soufriere, and certainly Clare's boat looks (from its wake) as if its approaching from the south.

Given the time according to the time stamps on the photographs, do you think it is possible to have gotten Clare out by boat and into a limo before Nikki would be boarding the boat to the FRC?

I think so, but if and only if, they went somewhere close - like Soufriere.  Alternatively, they could have a second boat to take F2 away.  In Ashley's season Ben arrived by plane and left by boat (I think)

Thanks Mr Write. It seems likely the women took the boat from Soufriere, as albean mentioned a long boat ride would wreck havoc on their hair and makeup.