Andi Dorfman- Bachelor 18 Contestant- Spoilers/Discussion

I think we all saw a different scene. First of all there's nothing that says she had sex with him and I doubt very much she did. Yes she argued with him but was just trying to get her point across and it did go on too long. I don't feel she was attacking him at all and the tweets were pretty mild. Maybe she could have talked to him earlier and maybe she could have left sooner but she didn't and we weren't there. We watch a very highly edited show. I completely understand not liking someone. I still can't stand Clare for how she's acted all season. I guess I just don't see what Andi did as horrible and in fact liked that for once someone said what they were feeling. Maybe he was sending her home that week anyway but we don't know that.

I still think JP is a decent guy but I could never be with him. The cultural thing is just too different for me.

albean99 wrote:I think we all saw a different scene. First of all there's nothing that says she had sex with him and I doubt very much she did. Yes she argued with him but was just trying to get her point across and it did go on too long. I don't feel she was attacking him at all and the tweets were pretty mild. Maybe she could have talked to him earlier and maybe she could have left sooner but she didn't and we weren't there. We watch a very highly edited show. I completely understand not liking someone. I still can't stand Clare for how she's acted all season. I guess I just don't see what Andi did as horrible and in fact liked that for once someone said what they were feeling. Maybe he was sending her home that week anyway but we don't know that.

I still think JP is a decent guy but I could never be with him. The cultural thing is just too different for me.

I get that. I have been married to a man from Brazil now for almost 10 years now. I lived a sheltered life growing up (very sheltered) and while I went to school with people of all colors, I never had boyfriends who weren't American. I met my husband when I was 25 years old, and he was 20. I knew instantly he was "the one", but it took me a long time to work through the cultural differences we had. I see this happening with Juan Pablo. As folks from North America, the way we date, and express our feelings, are way different than those in South America. I can attest to that from my personal experience. I don't think Juan Pablo is much different than any other Bachelor that has been on the show, as far as kissing, conversation etc.. However, the criticism he is getting is much harsher. I think it's mainly because many don't understand how it is done in his culture. I actually feel for him, because I think he is getting an unfair rap.

I think Andi wanted Juan Pablo to conform to her idea of what he should be, and that was disturbing to me. I don't fault her at all for expressing her feelings, but she "beating him up" over the words "it's okay' was silly and childish. One of the first words learned in the English language is the word "okay." I bet we have all tried to talk to someone with limited English, and they could only respond back with "okay." My husband who has been in the U.S. for 15 years, and speaks good English, still has a hard time comprehending some of the things I say to him. My husband would always tell me that I was "belo" which is beautiful in Portuguese, because he wanted to compliment me, and he would say it a lot, because that was his way of expressing how he felt. I think Juan meant what he said to most of those girls too. I hate the way he has been demonized, and I hated the way Andi treated him.

rosesrREd wrote:

albean99 wrote:I think we all saw a different scene. First of all there's nothing that says she had sex with him and I doubt very much she did. Yes she argued with him but was just trying to get her point across and it did go on too long. I don't feel she was attacking him at all and the tweets were pretty mild. Maybe she could have talked to him earlier and maybe she could have left sooner but she didn't and we weren't there. We watch a very highly edited show. I completely understand not liking someone. I still can't stand Clare for how she's acted all season. I guess I just don't see what Andi did as horrible and in fact liked that for once someone said what they were feeling. Maybe he was sending her home that week anyway but we don't know that.

I still think JP is a decent guy but I could never be with him. The cultural thing is just too different for me.

I get that.  I have been married to a man from Brazil now for almost 10 years now.  I lived a sheltered life growing up (very sheltered) and while I went to school with people of all colors, I never had boyfriends who weren't American.  I met my husband when I was 25 years old, and he was 20.  I knew instantly he was "the one", but it took me a long time to work through the cultural differences we had.  I see this happening with Juan Pablo.  As folks from North America, the way we date, and express our feelings, are way different than those in South America.  I can attest to that from my personal experience.  I don't think Juan Pablo is much different than any other Bachelor that has been on the show, as far as kissing, conversation etc..  However, the criticism he is getting is much harsher.  I think it's mainly because many don't understand how it is done in his culture.  I actually feel for him, because I think he is getting an unfair rap.

I think Andi wanted Juan Pablo to conform to her idea of what he should be, and that was disturbing to me.  I don't fault her at all for expressing her feelings, but she "beating him up" over the words "it's okay' was silly and childish.  One of the first words learned in the English language is the word "okay."  I bet we have all tried to talk to someone with limited English, and they could only respond back with "okay."   My husband who has been in the U.S. for 15 years, and speaks good English, still has a hard time comprehending some of the things I say to him.  My husband would always tell me that I was "belo" which is beautiful in Portuguese, because he wanted to compliment me, and he would say it a lot, because that was his way of expressing how he felt.  I think Juan meant what he said to most of those girls too.  I hate the way he has been demonized, and I hated the way Andi treated him.
 

Thanks for your insights. I can understand that. I think I'm reacting to the harsh comments on some posts. That I don't get. I don't know if I agree that JP has been demonized but certainly treated somewhat badly by TPTB almost more for not defending him and allowing him to look bad. My feeling about Andi and the "it's okay" is how he uses it and not so much what the words are. I think to Andi it was a way of shutting her up and not acknowledging her feelings. I doubt very much that she knows what you've learned after being with you husband for years. I read the email that RS posted and it gave me a little more understanding. I think knowing more about his culture might have helped the women going in. I liked JP all season and still do but think he shut down and really wasn't invested in the process by this point in filming. It seems that he just wants to get through with as little drama as possible which isn't always going to happen with women as we know. That coupled with Andi being a lawyer going into debate mode was a bad combination. I liked that she defended herself and explained where she was coming from but she should have cut it much shorter (I've worked with lawyers and it doesn't surprise me that she didn't) and of course talked to him about it earlier. I think it came across as more harsh than intended because he really didn't seem to understand what she was talking about. Maybe a guy thing as much as anything.  :greenman: 

Longhornfan wrote:Here is my take on what I saw.  Andi very well may have gotten caught up in the Bachelor Bubble, but I place an equal amount of blame on her for what happened between her and JuanP.  First of all, I agree that as soon as she felt the need to get out of that FS, she should have gotten up and left right then.  She can't have it both ways, and she needs to own up to at least that, rather than make it all JuanP's fault.  

Secondly, did she not know what the premise of the Bachelor show is about?  Had she never watched any of the past seasons?  And why had she not already brought up the fact that they had never had any of those real deep conversations that would have shed light on their many differences?  Why didn't Andi make it a point to tell JuanP that they needed to do more talking and less kissing?  She needs to take responsibilty for what she did and did not do as well.  Andi could have walked out as soon as JuanP supposedly told her that she barely made it to the F3.

Thirdly, when Andi went to tell JuanP that she was leaving, and she did not get the emotional reaction from him that she wanted, it made her angry.  I have said this before.  I think that JuanP found it much harder for him to do the breaking up with the women, rather than the other way around.  I think Andi expected a whole different response from JuanP, and that fueled the whole argument that followed.

As with all of the other bachelors and bachelorettes who went on to be the next lead in their own season, Andi is going to find out just how much manipulation goes on behind the scenes.  She will soon find out that the producers don't care who they throw under the bus.

I agree with you, Longhorn, but you said it so much better than I do.

I also think that her making fun of him now and his accent is beyond rude.  It's one thing for her to say "it's ok" drove her nutty, but it's another thing to say it via Twitter basically making fun of his accent "eeees okay."  I wonder how she will feel as the lead to read hateful comments about her looks or personality or hombre hair or whatever people choose to comment and snark on.  I wonder how she will feel if the guy she takes to F3 returns the favor to her and basically comes out saying what a b*tch he realized she was after spending the night in the FS with her.

Gosh, I love this show.   

albean99 wrote:

rosesrREd wrote:

albean99 wrote:I think we all saw a different scene. First of all there's nothing that says she had sex with him and I doubt very much she did. Yes she argued with him but was just trying to get her point across and it did go on too long. I don't feel she was attacking him at all and the tweets were pretty mild. Maybe she could have talked to him earlier and maybe she could have left sooner but she didn't and we weren't there. We watch a very highly edited show. I completely understand not liking someone. I still can't stand Clare for how she's acted all season. I guess I just don't see what Andi did as horrible and in fact liked that for once someone said what they were feeling. Maybe he was sending her home that week anyway but we don't know that.

I still think JP is a decent guy but I could never be with him. The cultural thing is just too different for me.

I get that.  I have been married to a man from Brazil now for almost 10 years now.  I lived a sheltered life growing up (very sheltered) and while I went to school with people of all colors, I never had boyfriends who weren't American.  I met my husband when I was 25 years old, and he was 20.  I knew instantly he was "the one", but it took me a long time to work through the cultural differences we had.  I see this happening with Juan Pablo.  As folks from North America, the way we date, and express our feelings, are way different than those in South America.  I can attest to that from my personal experience.  I don't think Juan Pablo is much different than any other Bachelor that has been on the show, as far as kissing, conversation etc..  However, the criticism he is getting is much harsher.  I think it's mainly because many don't understand how it is done in his culture.  I actually feel for him, because I think he is getting an unfair rap.

I think Andi wanted Juan Pablo to conform to her idea of what he should be, and that was disturbing to me.  I don't fault her at all for expressing her feelings, but she "beating him up" over the words "it's okay' was silly and childish.  One of the first words learned in the English language is the word "okay."  I bet we have all tried to talk to someone with limited English, and they could only respond back with "okay."   My husband who has been in the U.S. for 15 years, and speaks good English, still has a hard time comprehending some of the things I say to him.  My husband would always tell me that I was "belo" which is beautiful in Portuguese, because he wanted to compliment me, and he would say it a lot, because that was his way of expressing how he felt.  I think Juan meant what he said to most of those girls too.  I hate the way he has been demonized, and I hated the way Andi treated him.
 

Thanks for your insights. I can understand that. I think I'm reacting to the harsh comments on some posts. That I don't get. I don't know if I agree that JP has been demonized but certainly treated somewhat badly by TPTB almost more for not defending him and allowing him to look bad. My feeling about Andi and the "it's okay" is how he uses it and not so much what the words are. I think to Andi it was a way of shutting her up and not acknowledging her feelings. I doubt very much that she knows what you've learned after being with you husband for years. I read the email that RS posted and it gave me a little more understanding. I think knowing more about his culture might have helped the women going in. I liked JP all season and still do but think he shut down and really wasn't invested in the process by this point in filming. It seems that he just wants to get through with as little drama as possible which isn't always going to happen with women as we know. That coupled with Andi being a lawyer going into debate mode was a bad combination. I liked that she defended herself and explained where she was coming from but she should have cut it much shorter (I've worked with lawyers and it doesn't surprise me that she didn't) and of course talked to him about it earlier. I think it came across as more harsh than intended because he really didn't seem to understand what she was talking about. Maybe a guy thing as much as anything.  :greenman: 

Good post Albean. I pretty much agree with your views of JP and Andi.

I'd like to clarify something. I'm reading on many forums that Andi was insulted because JP told her that she BARELY (or default), made it to top3.

I think she was pulling at straws to make HER story stick. Good or bad lawyering depending which side you're on. Their conversation is so spliced to make JP look bad...

Earlier on in the show JP told Andi that she almost didn't make to the top 3 because HE had concerns  about HER feelings toward him. Andi told JP that she wanted to fall in love so badly....but she didn't want to FORCE IT. That created a doubt in his mind whether IT was going to happen. Hence Andi barley making it into top3. He was not being disrespectful if you got to hear the entire conversation leading to his statement.Contrast that with Nikki and Clare already telling him that they were falling for him. Andi was putting words in his mouth to make HER version stick. That was not cool. He was right. If it's not there, it's not there. Don't try to force it and then if it doesn't happen, you become a woman scorned. Sheesh.

So in all fairness, it appears that some of the things he said to her, or possibly didn't bother discussing with her may have been to Andi's hesitation. She needs to take responsibility for HER part (as Dr. Phil would say).

Whether they had sex or not, who knows? It seems that their FS date was very superficial. He may have made it all about him in trying to sell himself. Whatever it was, it  didn't work. Andi didn't see or feel fireworks, so she turned on him.

Realistically, how she thought that 8 hours were going to make her fall in love with him was really dumb on her part. Again, she needs to take responsibility for HER actions. As a lawyer, it's somebody's fault that something went wrong, and of course SHE'S PERFECT and has high standards, so JP must be the flawed one. THAT is not a good trait in Andi. If I were a guy, I would run.

eirekay wrote:

George1218 wrote:I seriously, seriously do not believe that they had sex. I don't believe JP had sex with any of the final 3!

Not questioning your opinion, but is there a reason you feel so strongly that JP didn't have sex with any of the F3? 

I believe he didn't have sex with any of them because I believe he is a good guy. I also believe that he does respect the women and it was very obvious that he was having a hard time letting women go and also seeing them upset. To me, the high value he seems to have on family and especially his daughter makes me believe that he would not sleep with any of them until he made a final decision. Maybe I am naive or looking at things unrealistically but this is what I believe.

George1218 wrote:
I believe he didn't have sex with any of them because I believe he is a good guy.  I also believe that he does respect the women and it was very obvious that he was having a hard time letting women go and also seeing them upset.  To me, the high value he seems to have on family and especially his daughter makes me believe that he would not sleep with any of them until he made a final decision. Maybe I am naive or looking at things unrealistically but this is what I believe.  

You might be right. He described Clare's over-night as a 'sleep-over'. Of course it could be a lost in translation thing.  

You are right. Her attitude started when JP was discussing her comment about wanting so badly to fall in love. Go back and watch the look on her face. Well really it started in Miami when she wanted him to say it will be her in the end. She played on his sympathy to get the rose, she knew if she cry, because he didn't like seeing them cry...it would work. I really liked Andi and don't hate her. What made angry with her wasn't so much the confrontation but her attitude in the car when she smirking and making fun of him.

Why did you think they split Andi's scene in half (before & after Nikki's date).
Why have the 2 people who left voluntarily done so after a Nikki date?

notarose wrote:Why did you think they split Andi's scene in half (before & after Nikki's date).
Why have the 2 people who left voluntarily done so after a Nikki date?

I was wondering the same thing.   Right after her FD, I was expecting to see Nikki's, but instead I got a whole on-screen PI of Andi going on and on, and then more commercials. I was like huh?

quietpal wrote:

notarose wrote:Why did you think they split Andi's scene in half (before & after Nikki's date).
Why have the 2 people who left voluntarily done so after a Nikki date?

I was wondering the same thing.   Right after her FD, I was expecting to see Nikki's, but instead I got a whole on-screen PI of Andi going on and on, and then more commercials. I was like huh?

I think after the Nikki date is a coincidence. But both Andi and Sharleen seem to "get lost in the moment" while with JP because both had chemistry with JP. After the date, they start processing the date vs. what they need and want and both have decided JP is not the one for either of them.