Re: Final Rose Ceremony - Screencaps - Thread #2

[chaslom4]

I see nothing in the edit of JP that mirrors Chantal at all, other than the fact that they like to kiss each other. There was always conflict with Chantal and Brad, always signs that the two were not in cync with each other .... other than they had fun together and liked to kiss. We see none of that conflict with JP. JP is providing a supporting role for her all along. Neither Brad nor Chantal turned to each other for support or comfort. Both Ashley and JP do. There are no similarities that I see between the relationships.

There isnt much similarity between Emily/Brad and Ashley /JP either as far as I can see. There is no pursuit in Ashley/JP evolution. It is more like Jesse/Deanna .... Always there, always, suppoting, patient and positive. JP isnt convincing Ashley, he is just being himself. There is really no reluctance or suspense in their jouney. It has been smooth and steady - very unlike Brad/Emily. perhaps more like Ali/Roberto.

I see it more like Ali/Roberto with the emotional and physical connection.

Me to Beeleever!

[bilolo]

Ashley did have the opportunity to tell Ben (if he's her supposed final one) in their one on one time at the groupe date but she didn't, so what does this mean ? (she's not concerned in Ben's reaction like she did with JP)

[Shadow]

I see nothing in the edit of JP that mirrors Chantal at all, other than the fact that they like to kiss each other. There was always conflict with Chantal and Brad, always signs that the two were not in cync with each other .... other than they had fun together and liked to kiss. We see none of that conflict with JP. JP is providing a supporting role for her all along. Neither Brad nor Chantal turned to each other for support or comfort. Both Ashley and JP do. There are no similarities that I see between the relationships.

There isnt much similarity between Emily/Brad and Ashley /JP either as far as I can see. There is no pursuit in Ashley/JP evolution. It is more like Jesse/Deanna .... Always there, always, suppoting, patient and positive. JP isnt convincing Ashley, he is just being himself. There is really no reluctance or suspense in their jouney. It has been smooth and steady - very unlike Brad/Emily. perhaps more like Ali/Roberto.

IA, I see more of an Ali/Roberto similarity than any other. In epsiode 5 Roberto says in a VO that he does not know her relationship with any of the other men, but, he feels that he is the right one for her. And, he feels that she feels the same way about him.

In epsiode 5 when Ashley ask JP can he see them together he says yes, he feels that way now, that there is no one else. There are a lot of other similarities between these two couples. JP may be a little more vocal about his feelings, but all the guys including ChrisL said they knew Roberto was smitten with Ali, just like all the guys know JP is smitten with Ashley.. :awesome:

[albean99]

The only extra consideration Ashley has given JP is telling him about the Bent one first, and privately. Now that the latter is really gone, we'll have to look for clues if she starts giving either guy anything "extra".

ITA that in hindsight, it was obvious that Emily was always the one for Brad, once we understood what he was looking for- stunning, proper southern wife to put on a pedestal, who he would be in so much awe of that it would make him tongue-tied. Similarly, I'm sitting here trying to figure out what Ashley's real deal could possibly be to make Ben the obvious better fit for her, despite what we've seen, and am so far coming up blank.

doesn't this kinda mirror Brad telling Em in epi 7 that she was getting a rose at the RC? I thought it spoke volumes that she really only cared about JPs reaction to the Bent Ones sitch - otherwise why not tell the other guys as well, and not after telling JP and seeing what HIS reaction was.

We don't really know that it was Ashley's idea to tell JP first. For all we know the producers whispered in her ear that it would be good to try it out with him first before springing it on the others. It just seems too obvious a thing to do with him being the f1. Emily was way more hidden than JP and they went out of their way to show them having very little chemistry so it was easy to overlook him telling her she was getting a rose. We've been hit over the head with the JP/Ashley chemistry so everyone watching the show noticed that she told him first and therefore deduce he's the f1. That's just not normal for Fleiss.

We don't, but if Ashley wanted to tell someone who was more important to her than JP first, she is a fool to allow the producers to force her to do otherwise. That gesture spoke volumes.

I'm not saying that but don't think we can interpret it to be that she wanted to tell JP alone instead of waiting to tell the others and therefore proof that he was f1 already in her eyes. Nothing happens on that show without the blessing or manipulations of TPTB. They could have easily edited it out if they wanted to but for some reason they didn't. I just don't think we can jump to an interpretation without at least questioning motives, in this case Fleiss' as much or more than Ashley's.

I don't think the editing can be matched up with any of the Bachelorettes, especially Meredith's show. Ian was not only hidden as much as they could but given a sketchy edit. They threw everything at him and made Matthew out to be the good guy vs Ian's vagabond who couldn't commit. I was an Ian fan and even though the chemistry screamed out to me, many people thought she would pick Matthew. The only one who wasn't all that hidden was Jerry and we know that there really wasn't a f1 that season. He was also given a bit of a sketchy edit though. I forgot about Jesse but he was never meant to be f1 so that season was hard to read. Roberto's edit was much better but still somewhat hidden behind Chris L's and Frank's. JP is getting a very good edit so far but of course that could change if he's the jealous guy next epi. That and Ben's date being great could swing things back to JP being edited to be f1. Really a topsy turvy season, especially with Bentley thrown in for good measure.

[luvlady345]

But people are comparing Female lead-Male lead which is impossible because males by naturel are the pursuer, so when you have a female who is pursuring the male lead that woman is almost always F2......But it's the opposite for the female lead they like to feel wanted & desired, pursued if you will-(chemistry).....If JP ends up being F1 maybe then we can stop comparing the female to male edit....

[anders]

But people are comparing Female lead-Male lead which is impossible because males by natural are the pursuer, so when you have a female who is pursuring the male lead that woman is almost always F2......But it's the opposite for the female lead they like to feel wanted & desired, pursued if you will-(chemistry).....If JP ends up being F1 maybe then we can stop comparing the female to male edit....

I agree to a point. The female leads (with the exception of Trista) picked their chemistry edit guys – every single F2 guy has been portrayed as the stable guy.



I still think it is relevant to compare to bach seasons, since a lot of the same elements remain (ie – who’s getting the chemistry edit, who’s getting the stealth edit, the tragic edit…etc….we just have to remember that the female leads have almost always picked their chem edit.

[chicagoowl]

But people are comparing Female lead-Male lead which is impossible because males by naturel are the pursuer, so when you have a female who is pursuring the male lead that woman is almost always F2......But it's the opposite for the female lead they like to feel wanted & desired, pursued if you will-(chemistry).....If JP ends up being F1 maybe then we can stop comparing the female to male edit....

So true... Roberto made Ali feel wanted and the center of attention.

[pavalygurl]

The only extra consideration Ashley has given JP is telling him about the Bent one first, and privately. Now that the latter is really gone, we'll have to look for clues if she starts giving either guy anything "extra".

ITA that in hindsight, it was obvious that Emily was always the one for Brad, once we understood what he was looking for- stunning, proper southern wife to put on a pedestal, who he would be in so much awe of that it would make him tongue-tied. Similarly, I'm sitting here trying to figure out what Ashley's real deal could possibly be to make Ben the obvious better fit for her, despite what we've seen, and am so far coming up blank.

doesn't this kinda mirror Brad telling Em in epi 7 that she was getting a rose at the RC? I thought it spoke volumes that she really only cared about JPs reaction to the Bent Ones sitch - otherwise why not tell the other guys as well, and not after telling JP and seeing what HIS reaction was.

Oh, absolutely. Telling JP first wasn't only for his benefit, but for hers as well. Ashley picked the best possible way to tell him, when she could concentrate all her efforts on explaining how important it was that he understood why she wanted him to know; the setting helped him to accept the news graciously, which was the response she was hoping for from him. Singling him out to hear the news first assured him he really was special to her. Conversely, telling the guys in the group setting produced the opposite reaction. Although I suspect JP would have still handled things more serenely than most of the others had he been told along with them, despite the backlash and the disdain towards her the move generated from the guys and from viewers, ultimately it benefitted Ashley in the long run (provided she picked JP) by strengthening her bond with her fiance, and providing him with further assurance that he mattered more to her than any of the others.

OTOH, if she picked Ben, she has some 'splaining to do.

We don't see how Ben handles the news that Bentley returned or that JP knew it first. All we see are reaction shots where he looks confused. When Ash stands up and leaves to go compose herself, Ben has tears in his eyes. We know that Ryan tells her some guys handled it better than others and CH infers Ben was one of those guys. Ben's only comment is something that she needs to focus on the guys who are here and she will be fine, after Mickey leaves.

[ironcat]

The only extra consideration Ashley has given JP is telling him about the Bent one first, and privately. Now that the latter is really gone, we'll have to look for clues if she starts giving either guy anything "extra".

ITA that in hindsight, it was obvious that Emily was always the one for Brad, once we understood what he was looking for- stunning, proper southern wife to put on a pedestal, who he would be in so much awe of that it would make him tongue-tied. Similarly, I'm sitting here trying to figure out what Ashley's real deal could possibly be to make Ben the obvious better fit for her, despite what we've seen, and am so far coming up blank.

doesn't this kinda mirror Brad telling Em in epi 7 that she was getting a rose at the RC? I thought it spoke volumes that she really only cared about JPs reaction to the Bent Ones sitch - otherwise why not tell the other guys as well, and not after telling JP and seeing what HIS reaction was.

We don't really know that it was Ashley's idea to tell JP first. For all we know the producers whispered in her ear that it would be good to try it out with him first before springing it on the others. It just seems too obvious a thing to do with him being the f1. Emily was way more hidden than JP and they went out of their way to show them having very little chemistry so it was easy to overlook him telling her she was getting a rose. We've been hit over the head with the JP/Ashley chemistry so everyone watching the show noticed that she told him first and therefore deduce he's the f1. That's just not normal for Fleiss.

We don't, but if Ashley wanted to tell someone who was more important to her than JP first, she is a fool to allow the producers to force her to do otherwise. That gesture spoke volumes.

I'm not saying that but don't think we can interpret it to be that she wanted to tell JP alone instead of waiting to tell the others and therefore proof that he was f1 already in her eyes. Nothing happens on that show without the blessing or manipulations of TPTB. They could have easily edited it out if they wanted to but for some reason they didn't. I just don't think we can jump to an interpretation without at least questioning motives, in this case Fleiss' as much or more than Ashley's.

I don't think the editing can be matched up with any of the Bachelorettes, especially Meredith's show. Ian was not only hidden as much as they could but given a sketchy edit. They threw everything at him and made Matthew out to be the good guy vs Ian's vagabond who couldn't commit. I was an Ian fan and even though the chemistry screamed out to me, many people thought she would pick Matthew. The only one who wasn't all that hidden was Jerry and we know that there really wasn't a f1 that season. He was also given a bit of a sketchy edit though. I forgot about Jesse but he was never meant to be f1 so that season was hard to read. Roberto's edit was much better but still somewhat hidden behind Chris L's and Frank's. JP is getting a very good edit so far but of course that could change if he's the jealous guy next epi. That and Ben's date being great could swing things back to JP being edited to be f1. Really a topsy turvy season, especially with Bentley thrown in for good measure.

I get what you're saying, but as to motive, what would be the producers' motive for wanting JP told first in private? To believe it was because they knew she had a different frontrunner at the time and wanted to throw the viewers off track kind of stretches credulity. They couldn't have anticipated JP's resonse, could they? What if he'd gotten angry and it ruined their date? I suspect that even if the producers made the initial suggestion to Ashley to tell JP first, she jumped on the idea to do it because she was happy with the thought of telling him first. Why, if she was favoring somebody else at the time?

I do agree that we can't match the editing up to any one season in particular ever, because what we ultimately get is very much influenced by events on the ground, which differ season to season.

[albean99]

I don't think that she was necessarily favoring someone else at the time but could have others still in mind as possibilities. I actually think they'd have loved it if JP reacted badly and ruined the date. More drama. Just the fact that they showed it makes me wonder why.

[ironcat]

I don't think that she was necessarily favoring someone else at the time but could have others still in mind as possibilities. I actually think they'd have loved it if JP reacted badly and ruined the date. More drama. Just the fact that they showed it makes me wonder why.

I suppose they could have cut out them discussing it on their date; then they would have also had to cut out Ashley's using JP's positive reaction as impetus to tell the other guys (and her reason for being confident, or as CH calls it, cocky), as well as JP telling the other guys about knowing first. I think that would have taken a lot of the drama out of the reveal, and that's why they didn't edit it that way.

[northernviewer]

The only extra consideration Ashley has given JP is telling him about the Bent one first, and privately. Now that the latter is really gone, we'll have to look for clues if she starts giving either guy anything "extra".

ITA that in hindsight, it was obvious that Emily was always the one for Brad, once we understood what he was looking for- stunning, proper southern wife to put on a pedestal, who he would be in so much awe of that it would make him tongue-tied. Similarly, I'm sitting here trying to figure out what Ashley's real deal could possibly be to make Ben the obvious better fit for her, despite what we've seen, and am so far coming up blank.

doesn't this kinda mirror Brad telling Em in epi 7 that she was getting a rose at the RC? I thought it spoke volumes that she really only cared about JPs reaction to the Bent Ones sitch - otherwise why not tell the other guys as well, and not after telling JP and seeing what HIS reaction was.

I think TPTB left that conversation in there for a reason. It was a serious conversation that most couples who've been together for a long time would struggle having. Look at some of the expressions she used. I feel so strongly for you. I want you to know the entire journey. I don't want to get down to the end and you ask me why I didn't tell you earlier. (paraphrasing)

I mentioned after the episode that I thought that JP got Ryan's 1/1 last week, and the reason was so that she could tell him about Bentley. Ben's reaction to the Bentley ordeal went pretty much unmentioned... whether it was because he didn't say anything to either Ashley or the camera in a PI, or because they didn't think it was important to the storyline, is unknown.

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