Chris Discussion Group

veg_out wrote:

Mustang19 wrote:

brittany44000 wrote:I have a question.... If chris decided to leave at f3 and blindsided her... Do u think she would have fell apart and reacted the same way! I'll answer for myself an say yes!

No, not at all. If roles were reversed and Chris left and Brooks stayed, I'm thinking she would have reacted the same way as when Bryden or James left. Showing a little bit of emotion, but she had her eye on the prize at the end, which was Brooks all along.

It's an interesting one to ponder. It involves changing who Brooks and Chris are. For Brooks to have stayed, he would have had to have been convinced that he was in love with Des and ready to propose. All those doubts that started to rear their head in Madiera: they would have never been in his mind. All the back-and-forth acknowledged by Des on the HTD near the lake: not even thinkable. Brooks' entire personality and approach to the process would have had to be different for him to have stayed. It would have been an entirely different show! Brooks is Brooks and it wasn't going to be a different way. If Brooks had fallen in love with Des, then maybe he would have been her F1, but I think he was never intended to be there in the end. The current FitMarketing use of Bach'ette is intriguing to say the least and may point at something larger regarding Brooks' involvement in the show.

Chris being Chris wasn't going to bail. I do think that he was going to end up F1 just given the season's storyline and the psychology of Des, Brooks, and Chris. They played on Des and Brooks' weaknesses and used them as conflict resolution.

Things do often happen for a reason. Brooks leaving was the best thing for all parties. No one lost this season.

I disagree that Chris would have been F1 if Brooks stayed. I think one of the interesting things about this season is that we all got to see and hear the  things we would not have BECAUSE of the outcome. We all got the truth for once. And everyone wants to pretend like we didn't see it. We were all astounded to hear week after week that Des talked openly about being in love with Brooks. They showed that to us because it was what she said and how she felt. If Brooks was the F1 we would NEVER have seen that stuff.

As for the FitMarketing stuff, I see Brooks and his company capitalizing on the popularity of the show. They would be stupid not to. The only difference is that Marketing is a little more nebulous than selling ones' poetry so subtlety does not work. But its no different than Chris selling his poetry and Des' upcoming Bridal and jewelry line, Brad promoting his bars, Emily and her jewelry line, Ali and her TV shows, Chris and Peyton on HGTV, Trista on DTWS, Jake on DTWS, Sean on DTWS, Jason and his charity, Lorenzo and his dog products, David Good is published author and the list goes on and on...

sfrank wrote:

veg_out wrote:
It's an interesting one to ponder. It involves changing who Brooks and Chris are. For Brooks to have stayed, he would have had to have been convinced that he was in love with Des and ready to propose. All those doubts that started to rear their head in Madiera: they would have never been in his mind. All the back-and-forth acknowledged by Des on the HTD near the lake: not even thinkable. Brooks' entire personality and approach to the process would have had to be different for him to have stayed. It would have been an entirely different show! Brooks is Brooks and it wasn't going to be a different way. If Brooks had fallen in love with Des, then maybe he would have been her F1, but I think he was never intended to be there in the end. The current FitMarketing use of Bach'ette is intriguing to say the least and may point at something larger regarding Brooks' involvement in the show.

Chris being Chris wasn't going to bail. I do think that he was going to end up F1 just given the season's storyline and the psychology of Des, Brooks, and Chris. They played on Des and Brooks' weaknesses and used them as conflict resolution.

Things do often happen for a reason. Brooks leaving was the best thing for all parties. No one lost this season.

I guess I disagree that Chris would have been F1. I think one of the interesting things about this season is that we all got to see and hear the  things we would not have BECAUSE of the outcome. We all got the truth for once. And everyone wants to pretend like we didn't see it.
We were all astounded to hear week after week that Des talk openly about being in love with Brooks. They showed that to us because it was what she said and how she felt. If Brooks was the F1 would NEVER have seen that stuff.

As for the FitMarketing stuff, I see Brooks and his company capitalizing on the popularity of the show. They would be stupid not to. The only difference is that Marketing is a little more nebulous than selling ones' poetry.  But its no different than Chris selling his poetry and Des' upcoming Bridal and jewelry line, Brad promoting his bars, Emily and her jewelry line, Ali and her TV shows, Chris and Peyton on HGTV, Trista on DTWS, Jake on DTWS, Sean on DTWS, Jason and his charity, Lorenzo and his dog products, David Good is published author and the list goes on and on...

No doubt about it (oh, Brad!) that all parties exploit their presence on the show as a way to further business or career opportunities. Brooks' use of the Bachelorette in his recent presentation most likely received the "OK" from TPTB. No harm, no foul. It suggests that he's emotionally distanced himself from that time and place.

My point was really that there's no way to say the "true" outcome of the show because it would involve changing the emotions of Brooks, Des, and Chris during the weeks in Antigua. I'm agreeing that we all saw what we saw, and we really did question extensively the "reason" behind the pronouncements of love being left in the season when no other season showed us much the same UNLESS the character left the person. Hindsight is 20/20. Anyway, if we remove all producer manipulation and storyboarding from the show's unfolding, we're still left with Brooks' emotional process being the crux of the season's outcome. For the season's outcome to be different, Brooks alone would have had to be a different person: one who was in love with Des by HTDs and ready to propose. Des' feelings alone couldn't make him the F1 if he didn't want to be there. If we want to play the hypothetical of "if he had stayed AND he hadn't been so conflicted AND he was in love with her", then, sure, he would have been her F1. But that's the case with anyone else really if you think about it.

I also don't want to diminish the relationship that she had with Chris. You can see the connection that they have all the way through.

I think if Brooks had stayed...or rather, had been manipulated to stay...he would have been F1. I also think, if that had been the case, the relationship would clearly not have lasted. Chris is a better fit with Des and I think they have a better chance of lasting. Will they? I'm not sure. At this point, I'm of two different minds. She may have sorted things out in her own head and realised that Chris is the man for her and love grew. Or, face saving continues. The turn about on her feelings has to be justified and the subsequent questioning of their relationship makes them dig their heels in to prove everyone wrong....and they still could work out...or not. Time will tell.

I don't pretend to know what would have happened if Brooks had stayed because we all know he didn't. Des chose to move on and she didn't have to. They could have made her have MTP & LCDs but think they'd have loved it if she didn't choose anyone because that's never happened before on the Bachelorette. It would have been perfectly understandable to the viewers unlike with Brad.

I believe Des when she says she was able to separate what she felt for each guy and you only have to watch her dates with Chris to see something pretty good was going on. Des seems to have realized that what she saw as love with Brooks was one sided and that had to have caused some hard thinking. People keep talking about what she said in the breakup scene and while I believe she meant it when she said she was in love with him, some of it was trying to make him feel worse. She very well may have wanted to be going on dates with him but you could tell that she was in the moment with Chris at the very least. IRL you probably couldn't move on as fast as Des did but then you fall so much faster in the Bachelor Bubble in the first place.

In any case Chris & Des seem to be a much better fit. I'm not sure that Brooks is really as ready as he thought and the show wasn't the best situation for him. Not everyone can make a leap without knowing the outcome. I'm hopeful for Des & Chris and this is the true beginning of their relationship IRL.

That's a great post albean. The only question I have is would TPTB allow that? It would have been understandable to viewers, but how would that have played out? She just talks to him on the LCD about it? They needed some WOW moment for the finale. Wouldn't they at least had Chris propose and her reject his proposal? I just don't think she wanted to have to reject his proposal on tv and THEN tell him she'd like to date him.

Another thing that makes this all understandable is she probably liked both Chris and Brooks more than guys she has dated in the past, so why lose both?

grace8136 wrote:That's a great post albean. The only question I have is would TPTB allow that? It would have been understandable to viewers, but how would that have played out? She just talks to him on the LCD about it? They needed some WOW moment for the finale. Wouldn't they at least had Chris propose and her reject his proposal?  I just don't think she wanted to have to reject his proposal on tv and THEN tell him she'd like to date him.

Another thing that makes this all understandable is she probably liked both Chris and Brooks more than guys she has dated in the past, so why lose both?

If Des was truly devastated by Brooks leaving and he was the only one for her (in her mind at the time) then they probably would have had her reject both Drew & Chris at the FRC for added drama. I think as it was she decided that she would accept Chris' proposal knowing it's a beginning. I don't believe she would have done that if she didn't love him. It's not worth trying to rate where Chris was vs Brooks imo even though people want to do it. None of us know what was in Des' mind at the time and we can't solely go by what we saw in that breakup scene. It went on way too long and Des was extremely emotional plus it's very likely that things were frankenbited by the editors to make it even more dramatic. In any case the players have probably moved on more than the fans.  :Nod:

albean99 wrote:

grace8136 wrote:That's a great post albean. The only question I have is would TPTB allow that? It would have been understandable to viewers, but how would that have played out? She just talks to him on the LCD about it? They needed some WOW moment for the finale. Wouldn't they at least had Chris propose and her reject his proposal?  I just don't think she wanted to have to reject his proposal on tv and THEN tell him she'd like to date him.

Another thing that makes this all understandable is she probably liked both Chris and Brooks more than guys she has dated in the past, so why lose both?

If Des was truly devastated by Brooks leaving and he was the only one for her (in her mind at the time) then they probably would have had her reject both Drew & Chris at the FRC for added drama. I think as it was she decided that she would accept Chris' proposal knowing it's a beginning. I don't believe she would have done that if she didn't love him. It's not worth trying to rate where Chris was vs Brooks imo even though people want to do it. None of us know what was in Des' mind at the time and we can't solely go by what we saw in that breakup scene. It went on way too long and Des was extremely emotional plus it's very likely that things were frankenbited by the editors to make it even more dramatic. In any case the players have probably moved on more than the fans.  :Nod:

ITA with you, albean.
count me in as the one who perceive Des season is the repeating/mix between Ash and Ali`s storyline. Ash, for the solid rock JP`s role played by Chris. Ali, for the ending. She can simply let Drew go at the cost of being left heartbroken by Brooks. just as Ali- Chris L- Frank saga, for the prize of the Prince Charming in the end. aka Chris S who resembles Roberto.I also think it was a game over for everyone else after her successful fairy tale date w him on epis 5 Munich (hinting by her poem she gave him in Barcelona. Hello?? for a rose that one day granted us our fate). We can debate this whole thing till the judgement day, yet still i have major doubt we will come to a single consensus on how we should perceive this season`s outcome, IMO. Therefore, we have to respectfully agree to disagree.
For the awesome life of me,  i only look forward to catching up with Chris and his lady updates. I could care less about the other contestants.

"Me thinks" she did more method acting crying with James than she did with Brookie-Pooh. I thought it was quite cute how the editors intermixed their dramas together in the May promos. We even got repeat lines with each: Mike says, over shots of James in the elevator, "It just goes to show that he is not ready for this experience, certainly not ready to be a husband to anyone." (Cue shot of Brooks as ominous "fore-shadowing"... ooooooooh!) In the finale, Chris says "At the last rose ceremony I found out that Brooks wasn’t ready for this."

Personally I think Desie "played" them just as she did Sean on her hometown, first with the ex-boyfriend and then sicking her pit-bull brother on him. James thought he would "go off into the sunset with Des" since he was THAT confident despite her constant nitpicking him of Drew-Kasey tattling and... shock! He gets eliminated. Brooks thought he and Desie were just palsie-walsies until she blubbered she wuved him and wanted to give him her heart... shock! Gotta hand it to that wily dame. She got both of them to Mesnick man-cry on screen much to Fleiss' ghoulish delight.

I think the reason everybody was so shocked about her "turnaround" with Chris was because the boo-hoo-ing may not have been as 100% real as we think it was. Oh I am sure there was some raw emotion there, but not to the extreme that viewers took it. Whenever fireworks and hurricane destruction are required on a date, you know the lead is needing help showing "the heat" on screen. Whenever there is an overkill of poems on screen, sweaters and pillows between bodies, it is more likely production wants to turn the dial down to "cool off"...

Uh oh. Now I am in trouble with the opposition here... the Brooks Battalion will need to yell "Charge!" and come after me. Ha ha! Hey... all ancient history, so it doesn't matter anymore anyway.

Also... at least she got more safehouse time thanks to The Spoilers and Silly Edit. Already had her suitcases packed for Seattle come ATFR time.

JBF wrote:"Me thinks" she did more method acting crying with James than she did with Brookie-Pooh. I thought it was quite cute how the editors intermixed their dramas together in the May promos. We even got repeat lines with each: Mike says, over shots of James in the elevator, "It just goes to show that he is not ready for this experience, certainly not ready to be a husband to anyone." (Cue shot of Brooks as ominous "fore-shadowing"... ooooooooh!) In the finale, Chris says "At the last rose ceremony I found out that Brooks wasn’t ready for this."

Personally I think Desie "played" them just as she did Sean on her hometown, first with the ex-boyfriend and then sicking her pit-bull brother on him. James thought he would "go off into the sunset with Des" since he was THAT confident despite her constant nitpicking him of Drew-Kasey tattling and... shock! He gets eliminated. Brooks thought he and Desie were just palsie-walsies until she blubbered she wuved him and wanted to give him her heart... shock! Gotta hand it to that wily dame. She got both of them to Mesnick man-cry on screen much to Fleiss' ghoulish delight.

I think the reason everybody was so shocked about her "turnaround" with Chris was because the boo-hoo-ing may not have been as 100% real as we think it was. Oh I am sure there was some raw emotion there, but not to the extreme that viewers took it. Whenever fireworks and hurricane destruction are required on a date, you know the lead is needing help showing "the heat" on screen. Whenever there is an overkill of poems on screen, sweaters and pillows between bodies, it is more likely production wants to turn the dial down to "cool off"...

Uh oh. Now I am in trouble with the opposition here... the Brooks Battalion will need to yell "Charge!" and come after me. Ha ha! Hey... all ancient history, so it doesn't matter anymore anyway.

Also... at least she got more safehouse time thanks to The Spoilers and Silly Edit. Already had her suitcases packed for Seattle come ATFR time.

Muslady:
HaHa! Love this! I always thought Des was a better actress than given credit for. I know not Julia Roberts, Meg Ryan quality but better than most of Bachettes that have come down the pike.
ETA:  Finally figured it out!

Have the dates ever been filmed out of order? Chris' FD makes more sense between his LCD/MTP and the proposal. It means his date of 4/29 could be right. It makes more sense that she was asking about the future and on top of him on the beach. I know it's more likely that he just messed up the date in the poem, but it got me wondering.

I don't think his dates are incorrect because he always dates his work; like a journal.

Back in 2011, HollywoodLife reported that Bentley visited Ashley Hebert on April 11th in Hong Kong. According to Reality Steve and Harrison's twitter comments... and Mike Fleiss attending a Reality TV conference during the previous weekend... the crew was in Hong Kong from April 6/7 through 13th since her birthday was in Taiwan. (Wasn't she sick that day and didn't have a date?)

Since HollywoodLife listed the date matter-of-factly, my guess is that they were correct. On screen, Blake Julian calls JP a "sand-bagger" before the next rose ceremony (probably the night of the 12th) because he knew about Bentley before the others did. My guess is that the editors pulled one over us into thinking she met Bentley before Lucas' date when it may have, in fact, been the morning of JP's Peak Tram, which was all late evening anyway.

Again, we may never know for sure if the April 11th date is a boo-boo or not, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least since they also inserted a PI session that episode (when she says "I'm f***ing done with you" to a Bentley-if-he's watching) with Ashley sporting the same hair perm she had for a mid-May (post-Fiji) TV Guide interview.