Re: Sean & Catherine - The Bachelor 17 - Thread #1

[motherof4]

I don't think he would do that because he doesn't want to be seen as someone that led Lindsay along. He probably hated that aspect of the show. It doesn't even seem like he admitted that to his family because one of Shay's friends came on this board and said he was really still confused at MTP. I think that if there was confusion at that point, it was that Cat was more of a risk because Lindsay lined up perfectly with his beliefs. But at some point, he put that aside because he had stronger feelings for Cat. That's my take on it anyhow.

What is MTP?

[Guest]

I don't think he would do that because he doesn't want to be seen as someone that led Lindsay along. He probably hated that aspect of the show. It doesn't even seem like he admitted that to his family because one of Shay's friends came on this board and said he was really still confused at MTP. I think that if there was confusion at that point, it was that Cat was more of a risk because Lindsay lined up perfectly with his beliefs. But at some point, he put that aside because he had stronger feelings for Cat. That's my take on it anyhow.

What is MTP?

Meet The Parents

[Karen5354]

LOL, if you noticed, I deleted a post on the other thread yesterday... A lot of miscommunication went on, that's how I felt. ceebeedee's suggestion of using emoticons is smart though. :Biggrin:

Back to SeanCat, I don't vote at all on Dwts - there, I said it. :hidingchair Watching and discussing on this board is already the craziest and most invested I've been in all the Bach seasons.

[instinct]

Yes, it did make him look stupid to propose after supposedly deciding the night before, but it was that or looking like a jerk for leading Lindsay along. He should have let Lindsay go on the LCD, like Ali did with Chris. I am not 100% convinced that he wasn't undecided. The faith thing may have been a struggle for him to pick Cat and then she said something on the LCD that calmed his extreme anxiety over the whole thing. Who knows.

That's my take on it, also

Lordy... that was rough yesterday! I may not venture out of this place for awhile. :shocked!: [/quote]

I was :hidingchair but you handled yourself extremely well! :Clap:




Sorry, I meant to quote Grace in the above but messed up!

[ceebeedeedum]

Summer War has been on my wishlist for the longest time to watch. I've been waiting for it to show up on Netflix, Crunchyroll, or Hulu, but no luck yet. I might have to buy the dvds to watch it. :Frown: Meanwhile Crunchyroll, Hulu & DramaFever has a LOT of Korean drama series, you can get even more choices if you subscribe. Netflix does too but you need a subscription.

As for Sean picking Catherine as the one in Thailand, I agree with you. I've seen a few PRINT interviews. I wish he would mention it for the record during a TV interview like Extra, Access Hollywood, or ET.

Does LoveFilm have them? We subscribe to it.

YouTube has an interview of Catherine and Sean the day after the Finale (she wore a white jacket and printed jeans) where he was asked when he knew she was the One. I think at first he said the last week in Thailand but then he backtracked and said the LAST TWO weeks. I wish he set the records straight and make it very clear that his mind was made up sooner than the day before proposal.

Agree! He should set the record straight sooner rather than later when the public forgets about him. Perhaps before The Bachelorette starts or before his wedding.

Meanwhile I checked LoveFilm for some Korean titles and looks like they don't have them. Here's one on YouTUbe of my fave Korean romantic comedy, Boys Over Flowers;
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Also look for Princess Hours, Queen Seondeok, Coffee Prince & Dong Yi.

[Guest]

Yes, it did make him look stupid to propose after supposedly deciding the night before, but it was that or looking like a jerk for leading Lindsay along. He should have let Lindsay go on the LCD, like Ali did with Chris. I am not 100% convinced that he wasn't undecided. The faith thing may have been a struggle for him to pick Cat and then she said something on the LCD that calmed his extreme anxiety over the whole thing. Who knows.
Lordy... that was rough yesterday! I may not venture out of this place for awhile. :shocked!:

That's my take on it, also

I was :hidingchair but you handled yourself extremely well! :Clap:
Sorry, I meant to quote Grace in the above but messed up!

Well.. thank you very much. I think I could have done better but after the racist and PM comments I also could have done a whole lot worse! :atomic: Thankfully UMNgirl stepped in with the picture of the kitty. :babies:

[umngirl]

I was :hidingchair but you handled yourself extremely well! :Clap:




Sorry, I meant to quote Grace in the above but messed up!

Well.. thank you very much. I think I could have done better but after the racist and PM comments I also could have done a whole lot worse! :atomic: Thankfully UMNgirl stepped in with the picture of the kitty. :babies:

Thanks what I'm here for. I mean, how can you not love this.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[ceebeedeedum]

Yes, it did make him look stupid to propose after supposedly deciding the night before, but it was that or looking like a jerk for leading Lindsay along. He should have let Lindsay go on the LCD, like Ali did with Chris. I am not 100% convinced that he wasn't undecided. The faith thing may have been a struggle for him to pick Cat and then she said something on the LCD that calmed his extreme anxiety over the whole thing. Who knows.
That's my take on it, also

Lordy... that was rough yesterday! I may not venture out of this place for awhile. :shocked!:

I was :hidingchair but you handled yourself extremely well! :Clap:


Sorry, I meant to quote Grace in the above but messed up!

Well.. thank you very much. I think I could have done better but after the racist and PM comments I also could have done a whole lot worse! :atomic: Thankfully UMNgirl stepped in with the picture of the kitty. :babies: [/quote]

AGREE with instinct on the bold part! And kitty gifs always make me smile! Thanks unmgirl! And keep us posted when you apply for The Bach!

[notguilty]

I agree that none of the guys you mentioned could be considered successful and that brings us back to the original question.....why do the audience and the contestants get bamboozled into wanting to "win" such a mediocre catch?

Three sociology/psych articles came to mind. One forum post this everytime the Bach is airing to remind the viewers of how artificial the
bachelor world is.


1. The Bachelor: A modern-day replication of the Stanford Prison Experiment?

In 1971 a group of Stanford researchers led by psychologist Philip Zimbardo conducted what became a famous study of the power of deindividuating situations. Within only six days, twenty-four seemingly normal, psychologically healthy participants were transformed into sadistic prison guards and dejected, emotionally unstable prisoners who came to voluntarily tolerate the abuse that was inflicted on them.

Thirty-one years later, the first episode of "The Bachelor" was aired on ABC. During the show, twenty-five single women compete for the affections of one man (with the reverse in "The Bachelorette") as they travel to scenic destinations, ride in lots of helicopters and boats, and enjoy lavish accommodations. What could the Stanford Prison Experiment possibility have to do with a fun, light-hearted reality show? A lot, it turns out.


a. The leader -To be selected by this (sometimes) charismatic figure at the end of the show signifies specialness. This dynamic is not unlike the way cult figures interact with the group’s leader. To the outside world, a cult leader might seem really creepy and strange, but in the context of a total institution, their attention might imply salvation.

In the context of The Bachelor, it is normal for the anointed one to have amorous rendezvous with multiple women, and for the women to have friendly conversations with each other in which they compare notes about those encounters. Separated from trusted others, such as friends and family, who might in normal circumstances weigh in on their romantic lives, the experience seems okay. While in our daily lives we might have many things to define our identities, such as school, our work, and our relationships with friends and families, little else defines contestants during this process but how well they fare with the bachelor/bachelorette.

b. The conditions-- Both the Bachelor and the prison require contestants/participants to isolate themselves from trusted friends, family, and communities, temporarily giving up their usual identities and daily activities and finding themselves in an unfamiliar, disorienting setting. The Stanford prisoners were required to stay in small cells all day and night, while the contestants are confined to fancier suites, but still likely driven stir-crazy. As the contestants/participants become more and more disconnected from the outside world, they in turn become increasingly dependent on the norms and expectations of the new environment, which in both cases are clearly not the healthiest. From an outside perspective, it's hard to imagine why anyone would voluntarily stay in an environment that makes them so miserable. What we forget is that this new environment has quickly become their whole world, and they - understandably - want to succeed (or at least survive) in it.

In some ways shows like these bear passing resemblance to dynamics in cults and other total institutions, a term sociologist Erving Goffman coined to describe organizations that essentially run a person’s life, if only for a short time. When someone participates on The Bachelor, they live in a spectacular mansion and must cut off contact from the outside world (contestants report not even knowing that Barack Obama was elected president while in the house). They cannot talk about what went on during the show until after it has aired either.

People often become somewhat passive when others have defined the situation for them. And the situation on The Bachelor is that being chosen as “the one” by the bachelor is the super ordinate goal, even if one is miserable in the process—or really doesn’t care much for the bachelor as a person. In the prison experiment, people adapted to their roles as prisoner and guard too well, and soon let go of their normal inhibitions and began acting accordingly. It is likely that people on a show like The Bachelor would soon behave in ways they might not normally too.

c: The roles -- Guard vs. prisoner roles were made explicit in the Stanford experiment, and participants easily fell into them, behaving in ways that they would never have otherwise behaved in their normal lives. From day one, Bachelor contestants also seem to fall into pre-determined roles, like the cruel, conniving woman who publicly derogates the other contestants, or the sweet, patient women who seem to truly have feelings for the Bachelor and are forced to watch him develop relationships with and later sleep with multiple other women.


d. The horror. Most importantly, the two "experiments" are similar in what they reveal about human nature, and it's not a pretty sight. We tell ourselves that we would never have behaved like that -- that some of the Stanford participants must have had a sadistic streak to begin with, or that the Bachelor contestants are all narcissists. But while it may be true that it takes a certain kind of person to apply for a reality show (or participate in a prison experiment), both do involve mental health screenings of would-be contestants/ participants, so the patterns of behavior that emerge cannot be totally written off as expressions of extreme personalities. As much as we may like to think of ourselves as strong, independent-minded, and basically decent people, we are also social beings who care deeply about social acceptance and status, even if that means sometimes acting in ways that are destructive to ourselves or to others. Recognizing this vulnerability, though unsettling, can help us avoid falling prey to dangerous forms of social influence.

===================

[notguilty]

Another article

Three Disturbing New Developments on ABC's "The Bachelor" and "The Bachelorette"
A case study in how to create an unsustainable relationship.
Published on June 9, 2012 by Dr. Shauna H. Springer

(excerpts)

The purpose of this article is to dispel any illusion that what is manufactured on The Bachelor is anything like “love,” by laying bare the show's manipulative elements. The cards are stacked so that almost anyone on the show would experience the feeling of falling in love.
I was disturbed to witness three additional manipulative elements in the script of the show.

1,.The first is the increased tendency for the host to plant foolish ideas that seem to be (more often than not) swallowed whole by the bachelor or bachelorette

One of the “stock” lines issued by host Chris Harrison in the very first show of the season, after the bachelor and bachelorette have just laid eyes on their respective pools of contestants, is “Do you think your future wife (or husband) is in that room?”

Essentially, the thrust of this statement is that after just clapping eyes on a set of attractive strangers, one ought to be mentally projecting toward a decision that will be legally and emotionally binding for the rest of one’s life (even when two people divorce, continuing legal and emotional ties often have a significant effect on both partners for the rest of their lives).

This emotionally manipulative statement, a form of psychological priming, is paired with an effort to convince the bachelor or bachelorette that the path to true love requires one to “trust one’s feelings.” eg: “Last time I was on the show, I held back from trusting my feelings. This time, I don’t want to have any regrets, because life is too short, so I’m going to put myself out there and trust what I feel no matter what.”

2. The second unfortunate new development in more recent seasons is the staging of narcissistic fantasies that quickly become subsumed into the “love story.” It’s as though the contestants have been selected by the Make-A-Wish Foundation for the fulfillment of whatever grandiose fantasies they may have, usually something on the theme of performing for thousands of people or having dinner in the middle of the Bellagio fountain, which “no one has ever done before.” (eg: fulfillment of bucket lists, trips, riding the chopper for a date)

3. The third disturbing new development is what I would call “the trauma pitch.” -- That is, there seems to be an unchecked expectation that contestants reveal their deepest traumas during their first one-on-one conversations with the bachelor or bachelorette. As a professional counselor, I find it very disturbing to watch contestants open up about alcoholic parents, brain hemorrhages, deaths of their beloved first spouses, and other traumas of similar depth to another person they have just met (and an anonymous viewing audience of 10 million people).

Due to limited and unpredictable access to the bachelor or bachelorette, there is intense pressure to “make a pitch”—that is, to form a sound bite about how one’s deepest trauma has taught them some valuable life lesson, usually some variant of one of these three or four themes…

“The experience of [insert horrible trauma that the bachelor/bachelorette and audience have no right to know] has taught me to….“never take life for granted/make the most out of every day/tell the people I care about that I love them more often/make the most out of the chances I’m given.”

On the basis of this trauma pitch, a person’s character is weighed and judged (by the bachelor/bachelorette and the huge, anonymous viewing audience). What a terrible model for the development of trust and appropriate timing of self-disclosures in an intimate relationship!


For the show’s producers, there is no apparent downside to all of the emotional suffering they are creating. After all, the shrapnel of a disastrous “love” collision from this season's show may become next season's star, in a “rebound” relationship scenario that endlessly repeats itself. Can there be anything more emotionally dangerous, and less romantic, than a show that predictably fails to result in sustainable love matches?

The only thing that actually appears real in the show is the emotional devastation and gut-wrenching pain of the heartbroken and emotionally-damaged contestants. Is it any surprise that Mike Fleiss, the real-life producer of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette also produced two re-makes of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre? Given the intense manipulation of contestants and the unpredictable emotional carnage that ensues, the show has elements of a horror flick.

This is not to say that true love does not exist. Love can and does work, but what is widely portrayed by the media is not love, but rather examples of unsustainable collisions. It’s easy for us to be fooled because we tend to believe the cultural lore (promoted so widely in the media) that explosively positive feelings are the mark of true love. In reality, such feelings suggest three possibilities, only one of which is true love (alternatively, you could end up heart-broken or trapped in the nightmare of an abusive relationship). Ultimately, The Bachelor (or The Bachelorette) is a case study of how to create an unsustainable relationship.


Source Psych Today


The articles are long but I got it from a friend's email who was inspired to write a psychological horror short novel based on the bachelor. Unfortunately he is not done with writing it yet.

[atem]

You guys should check out the end of the General Media Thread for Bachelorette 9! I don't think there are spoilers there. There's a guy that tried to pull a Gloria Steinem, but didn't make the cut in L.A.!

[kitcat]

For me, I've always consider shows like The Bachelor as unhealthy and unreal that's why I never watched it...until I saw Catherine and got hooked.

Still I have no faith in this franchise.

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