Re: Fun Thread - Discussion - Spoilers

[JBF]

I wonder if Kimmel can make this a series of "installments" on his show?

Oops... can answer my own question. This is labeled "episode #1". Giddyup!

[Love_Me]

Huchmom3

[Admin]

Atem,

According to Wetpaint, Zak's birthday is April 8, 1982. ABC has him listed as 31, so that would be about right. He is an Aries.

[JBF]

I dunno… should I even bother?

Oh what the heck!

Here is some more astrology mumbo-jumbo gathered from various sites and relating to each of the guys since we now have their birthdays.

Have fun with it all! ... and don't take it too-too seriously since we really don't know all of the details about these guys.

Drew Kenny is a Sun sign Aries, Moon in Sagittarius. His Mars sign is in Taurus. I was tickled by ThePixiePoet on Reality Steve’s site describing Drew’s handwriting like this: “His handwriting is very neat, but don’t let that fool you. The spacing between words is far apart and could mean he has trust issues with others. His capital Ts have what is known as clubbing. Which could mean he has anger issues. However, his words are straight up and down are very consistent, so he is straightforward and consistent emotionally.”

Well… being an Aries, of course he is entitled to have “anger issues” and will certainly be “straight forward”, but with Mars in Taurus he will take out any anger at the gym… or doing yardwork... or house building… and in the bullfight arena… Olé! (Taurus is the sign of the bull, y’know.) With his Mercury and Venus together at 9-10 degrees in Aries, his handwriting is “very neat” (as ThePixiePoet tells us); he probably has strong graphic design abilities despite his six-packs image.

Although Zak Waddell is an Aries like Drew and Desiree, viewers will have no trouble distinguishing them apart because they have radically different Mars signs. (Mars is always emphasized with Aries.) In addition, Zak’s in Libra is retrograding, so what you see is not what you get. You may expect him to behave a certain way on account of his initial appearance and then he will surprise you out of the blue. With his Moon, Mars, Saturn and Pluto all in Libra and his Sun and Mercury in Aries, he does have a delightful touch of the Jekyll & Hyde in him. There is also the “vibe” that Daddy may have been un-traditional in his lifestyle and work life… perhaps a drifter of sorts. At least not obsessed with Keeping Up With The Joneses and making sure the family had the same cars, clothes, appliances and Nike footwear so they can blend in with the neighborhood. It is also quite possible he wasn’t around as much as other dads… and Zak probably had to discipline him self frequently and make his own rules. Zak’s oddball nature comes from an oddball upbringing, but he is a lot smarter than we are anyway, since his motto is “screw what everybody thinks”. Also, with Venus in Pisces, he is quite the champion for the underdog, since he is often Underdog himself. No wonder Desiree keeps him through the final three: he is like her brother Nate in more glamorous abs-form.

Zak W…. I’ll call him ZW this season (switch the initials and you get WZ… Warren Zevon “Werewolves of London” *chuckle chuckle*)… is a full moon-er… and not afraid to moon-for-the-screen as well. He is psychologically like Conan the Barbarian and Cookie Monster (sun in Aries) and emotionally like Barbara Walters (moon in Libra). Mommy (your moon sign relates to how you view your Mommy or step-mommies regardless of what signs they were) is… well… like Barbara Walters. (Doesn’t she like to antique shop? Such a quaint Libra thing to do.) I am reminded of Ashley Hebert’s season here. Ashley also has her sun in Aries and moon in Libra, if different than Zak in other areas (i.e. Ash struggled more with her Daddy). In the finale show (at Vomo resort, Fiji), we saw Chrystie tell Ashley she’s “too much” for JP and the quick response (before tugging her bangs and crying) was “What do you mean?!?!” Instantly the camera pans on Mom, sitting between her daughters, getting ready to go into her “Libra mode” (a.k.a. Barbara Walters style), trying to prevent the battle starting between the feudin’ sisters. Later Chrystie is vibrating in disgust in her chair with Mom consoling her, half agreeing with Chrystie and half-agreeing with Ashley… calming her down… much as she often did in the past with an often upset Daddy. (We didn’t see him that season, just Mom’s new more-sedated and mellow boyfriend.) Sooo… both Zak and Ashley have Mommies who often had to pick up the broken glass and yanked extension chords each time Daddy and the squabbling siblings had their warfare.

Christopher Siegfried, our lovable F2 this season, is one quite disciplined Sagittarian. He has plenty in that sign, including his Mercury and Saturn close together, making him much more methodical than other gadabout-town Sagittarians. Uranus is just two degrees away from his sun sign: Daddy Siegfried is a highly eccentric specialist committed to group causes and the betterment of the community. Little Christopher was instructed not just to broaden his own horizons like other Sagittarians, but he must broaden others as well. Daddy is aloof, but optimistic and (I’m guessing) very encouraging of Chris in his baseball interests and anything he likes to do.

Mommy (Chris’ moon is probably in Capricorn, although it could be very late Sagittarius) may have restrained a bit with the hugging and tear-consoling. This contrasts with the other baseball-jock this season, early eliminated Zack Kalter: his moon is in Cancer and his Mommy encouraged him to cry and be all touchy-feely. My guess is that Zack K. will be the “honey, what’s wrong?” type of husband, while Chris will need his wife asking him this exact same question each time he comes home in a dark mood from the rat race outside. Chris is not very expressive with his emotions, but he has them… and can get hurt easily, so his gal should be perceptive at all times.

[DesFever]

I dunno… should I even bother?

Oh what the heck!

Here is some more astrology mumbo-jumbo gathered from various sites and relating to each of the guys since we now have their birthdays.

Have fun with it all! ... and don't take it too-too seriously since we really don't know all of the details about these guys.

First up… the F4, F3 and F2 “dumpees” and what they are all about…

Drew Kenny is a Sun sign Aries, Moon in Sagittarius (more on that placement when I get to Brooks who is also a lunar Sag). His Mars sign is in Taurus. I was tickled by ThePixiePoet on Reality Steve’s site describing Drew’s handwriting like this: “His handwriting is very neat, but don’t let that fool you. The spacing between words is far apart and could mean he has trust issues with others. His capital Ts have what is known as clubbing. Which could mean he has anger issues. However, his words are straight up and down are very consistent, so he is straightforward and consistent emotionally.”

Well… being an Aries, of course he is entitled to have “anger issues” and will certainly be “straight forward”, but with Mars in Taurus he will take out any anger at the gym… or doing yardwork... or house building… and in the bullfight arena… Olé! (Taurus is the sign of the bull, y’know.) With his Mercury and Venus together at 9-10 degrees in Aries, his handwriting is “very neat” (as ThePixiePoet tells us); he probably has strong graphic design abilities despite his six-packs image.

Although Zak Waddell is an Aries like Drew and Desiree, viewers will have no trouble distinguishing them apart because they have radically different Mars signs. (Mars is always emphasized with Aries.) In addition, Zak’s in Libra is retrograding, so what you see is not what you get. You may expect him to behave a certain way on account of his initial appearance and then he will surprise you out of the blue. With his Moon, Mars, Saturn and Pluto all in Libra and his Sun and Mercury in Aries, he does have a delightful touch of the Jekyll & Hyde in him. There is also the “vibe” that Daddy may have been un-traditional in his lifestyle and work life… perhaps a drifter of sorts. At least not obsessed with Keeping Up With The Joneses and making sure the family had the same cars, clothes, appliances and Nike footwear so they can blend in with the neighborhood. It is also quite possible he wasn’t around as much as other dads… and Zak probably had to discipline him self frequently and make his own rules. Zak’s oddball nature comes from an oddball upbringing, but he is a lot smarter than we are anyway, since his motto is “screw what everybody thinks”. Also, with Venus in Pisces, he is quite the champion for the underdog, since he is often Underdog himself. No wonder Desiree keeps him through the final three: he is like her brother Nate in more glamorous abs-form.

Zak W…. I’ll call him ZW this season (switch the initials and you get WZ… Warren Zevon “Werewolves of London” *chuckle chuckle*)… is a full moon-er… and not afraid to moon-for-the-screen as well. He is psychologically like Conan the Barbarian and Cookie Monster (sun in Aries) and emotionally like Barbara Walters (moon in Libra). Mommy (your moon sign relates to how you view your Mommy or step-mommies regardless of what signs they were) is… well… like Barbara Walters. (Doesn’t she like to antique shop? Such a quaint Libra thing to do.) I am reminded of Ashley Hebert’s season here. Ashley also has her sun in Aries and moon in Libra, if different than Zak in other areas (i.e. Ash struggled more with her Daddy). In the finale show (at Vomo resort, Fiji), we saw Chrystie tell Ashley she’s “too much” for JP and the quick response (before tugging her bangs and crying) was “What do you mean?!?!” Instantly the camera pans on Mom, sitting between her daughters, getting ready to go into her “Libra mode” (a.k.a. Barbara Walters style), trying to prevent the battle starting between the feudin’ sisters. Later Chrystie is vibrating in disgust in her chair with Mom consoling her, half agreeing with Chrystie and half-agreeing with Ashley… calming her down… much as she often did in the past with an often upset Daddy. (We didn’t see him that season, just Mom’s new more-sedated and mellow boyfriend.) Sooo… both Zak and Ashley have Mommies who often had to pick up the broken glass and yanked extension chords each time Daddy and the squabbling siblings had their warfare.

Christopher Siegfried, our lovable F2 this season, is one quite disciplined Sagittarian. He has plenty in that sign, including his Mercury and Saturn close together, making him much more methodical than other gadabout-town Sagittarians. Uranus is just two degrees away from his sun sign: Daddy Siegfried is a highly eccentric specialist committed to group causes and the betterment of the community. Little Christopher was instructed not just to broaden his own horizons like other Sagittarians, but he must broaden others as well. Daddy is aloof, but optimistic and (I’m guessing) very encouraging of Chris in his baseball interests and anything he likes to do.

Mommy (Chris’ moon is probably in Capricorn, although it could be very late Sagittarius) may have restrained a bit with the hugging and tear-consoling. This contrasts with the other baseball-jock this season, early eliminated Zack Kalter: his moon is in Cancer and his Mommy encouraged him to cry and be all touchy-feely. My guess is that Zack K. will be the “honey, what’s wrong?” type of husband, while Chris will need his wife asking him this exact same question each time he comes home in a dark mood from the rat race outside. Chris is not very expressive with his emotions, but he has them… and can get hurt easily, so his gal should be perceptive at all times.

Matching up Brooks Forester (7-10-84, Boise, Idaho) and Desiree (4-8-86 per Nate… unless I have the year incorrect) again…

Some online sites like “Astrochicks” will probably *gasp* later in the season (like they did with Sean and Catherine) that these two will never make it. She is an April-born Aries and he’s a July-born Cancer, two traditionally “incompatible” signs.

But… is there any chance for these two? Will Brooks Boy be ready to settle down? Heck, is Desiree ready to? Maybe all of this bridal design talk is still just that… talk. She may prefer to hit the highways and byways in her turquoise Bentley instead post-show.

The other guys may be safer bets for Desiree (with Chris her best match) since they have fire sun signs, but Des doesn’t want things safe. She is a hot-blooded Aries with a thirst for challenge after all.

Brooks and Drew have a couple traits in common despite the former being a Mommy influenced Cancer and the latter a Daddy influenced Aries… and some of these similarities could have led to Drew getting the axe before Fantasy Date Time. First of all, both are lunar Sagittarians, suggesting that their Mommies… and probably many of the girls they date… were very optimistic and outgoing, perhaps bombastic in their “tell it like it is” rhetoric and viewing the world in rainbow glasses. (“Everything is beaaaaautiful… in its own waaaayy…”) These guys have an emotional need to enjoy this Big Blue Marble through travel and expanding their philosophical views. This doesn’t mean they’re not ready to settle down, but need a gal with plenty of intellectual stimulation and not put a padlock on the front door.

While all of these early-mid 80s born guys and Desiree have Uranus in Sagittarius, Drew and Brooks have it close to their moons, suggesting that the types of women they attract are more-often-than-not independent and free-spirited. This is fine for Drew with his Sun-Venus-Mercury combo in Aries and Jupiter in Aquarius since he needs his space and will allow her hers, but Brooks has Sun and Venus in Cancer, demanding a lot more emotional security, and his Saturn/Mars combo in Scorpio favorably “aspecting” this suggests that Daddy was pretty conservative and disciplined about his own and Brook’s actions… we mustn’t waste our sex drive on any project or any woman that is frivolous.

I guess we could go into depth here regarding his relationship with The Old Man, but it is rather complicated with all of these Saturnian trines involved. He likes the traditional structure he was raised with, but somehow thinks there is something still… well… wrong with it. You could call him a semi-rebel like Michael Corleone, who is disturbed by his family in the beginning of The Godfather and wants to run away, but is so dedicated to “family” that he simply can’t… and, in the end, is so much happier living a “questionable” family life instead of trying “freedom from the home-front” and all of the struggle it will involve. Better stick to what you are used to.

Brooks’ favorite words in his sloppily written questionnaire are “family” (typical Cancer talk), “communication” (not too good at that with Pluto being his only “air” sign) and “opinions” (ahhh… yes… that Scorpio Saturn and Capricorn Jupiter are very opinionated indeed). He doesn’t seem to like movies on a date. I wonder if he thinks they are too filthy these days with all of that sex, profanity and 3-D. They don’t make them like The Bells Of St. Mary’s anymore.

Desiree has no “air” signs (Gemini, Libra, Aquarius) apart from her south lunar node, so “communication” is important to her since it isn’t something she is naturally good at. Granted, she is fine talking to people on a day-by-day basis, but probably worries a lot about her word usage, her etiquette and how others take her. “Air-less” folks tend to operate better in writing and art than as commentators on TV and party planners. Her Mercury in Pisces does make her a bit “out there”… and explains some of her Cinderella talk… oh goodness gracious!

Brooks just has Pluto in Libra, so his intellectual and socializing side favors intense one-on-one, deep relationships. None of this casual party and bar scene. Heck, maybe this is all the “socializing” he and Desie need. They may not be the greatest conversationalists in public, but things certainly won’t be quiet behind closed doors. Although the degrees are not the same, there is a downright bizarre “opposites attract” chicka-boom-boom going on. His Venus and Mars are in watery Cancer and Scorpio, while her Venus and Mars are in “polar opposite” earthy Taurus and Capricorn. Bet it gets pretty muddy where they frolic! (Cue the type of date they may get as “last chance” in the finale: a mud bath.)

Here is what the experts say at these links (and a few others I had to dig up):
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I will first list the planetary “aspects” (like “His Sun-Square-Her Sun”), then give my edited down recap of what these links all say. Those “aspects” that are similar in their effects… or compromise each other (negative vs. positive) are grouped together.

His Sun-Square-Her Sun
This relationship is dynamic and energizing. They challenge each other to grow and develop, but unfortunately the process can be very abrasive and frustrating. The differences in personalities, if not understood and handled properly, can lead to mutual frustration. Life goals may often be at odds with one another and there can be distinct "ego wars" between them.

His Sun-Square-Her Moon / His Moon-Trine-Her Sun / His Moon-Trine-Her Moon
Although she may eventually find him too rational and self-involved (even if he is not generally thought to possess these traits) and he finds her too temperamental, they naturally cooperate with each other, a characteristic that is very welcome in most any romantic relationship.
Very often, they will be preoccupied with family matters, and each of the families is likely to play an important role in this relationship.

His Sun-Trine-Her Mercury / His Moon-Square-Her Mercury / His Mercury-Trine-Her Moon
He very easily stimulates her towards self-expression. They feel very comfortable chit-chatting about practically anything under the sun. However, she needs to guard against the tendency to be critical, unsympathetic, and overly analytical of his feelings, personal tastes, and habits. He is the more sensitive of the two.

His Moon-Conjunct-Her Uranus / His Uranus-Trine-Her Moon
Their relationship doesn't fall into the kind of "ruts" or "grooves" that are all too common in partnerships. The couple might enjoy being a little mischievous together, and there can be a shared sense of humor, a tendency to shake things up.

His Mercury-Square-Her Venus / His Venus-Trine-Her Mercury / His Mercury-Inconjunct-Her Mars / His Mercury-Trine-Her Saturn / His Mercury-Square-Her Pluto
In conversations, they do tend to cut each other off in the excitement. She, in particular, may often lack patience. Sometimes interactions are raising repressed and unresolved relationship issues from subconscious to conscious levels; the impact of day to day frustrations is intensified because she is dealing with what appears to be today’s issues, but are, in fact, a compilation of every upset she may have repressed or avoided in her past.
Positively, being the more disciplined of the two, she helps him to structure his thoughts and plan his life. He expands her horizons in the areas of leisure and the arts (music, culture, art, and literature, for example), and, often unconsciously, attempts to "soften" her sensibilities.

His Mars-Trine-Her Jupiter / His Jupiter-Conjunction-Her Mars / His Mars-Conjunction-Her Pluto
He encourages her self assertion and she expands his physical and sexual energies. Indeed, the two put plenty of energy into their sexual relationship. They are likely to feel stronger as a team rather than as individuals. On the downside, these aspects can indicate recklessness, competitiveness, drama, and conflict between the two. Neither will put up with domination or control.

His Jupiter-Trine-Her Venus / His Jupiter-Sextile-Her Jupiter / His Jupiter-Conjunct-Her Neptune / His Jupiter-Sextile-Her Pluto / His Saturn-Trine-Her Jupiter
They come from similar religious and educational backgrounds, with mutual interests. This allows them to explore life together in a way which far exceeds the potentials of any personal journey. The energy together exudes goodwill and generosity, and others will respond positively towards them.

His Saturn-Opposite-Her Venus / His Saturn-Sextile-Her Mars / His Saturn-Sextile-Her Neptune / His Saturn-Conjunction-Her Pluto
There is a constancy and predictability in him that she finds very attractive. At restless times in our lives, predictability can sometimes be equated with boredom. However, much of the time, she takes comfort in the knowledge that he will be there when needed.
Fearing her withdrawal, he can easily become critical and demanding. In response, she may withhold affection. Care should be taken to avoid getting into this negative cycle.
It will be important to maintain an adequate social life, as the tendency to appease one another's jealous nature by cutting oneself off from hobbies, social activities, and pleasures outside of the relationship. Economic difficulty can stress this partnership too, but also add to the closeness they share.

His Uranus-Square-Her Jupiter / His Uranus-Conjunction-Her Saturn
It may be hard to be empathetic with each functioning on a preconceived set of opinions about the ways both should approach new possibilities. He’s sometimes craving freedom, adventure, openness, and no structure at all. When faced with the new she will seek to cling to the past, the old ways, the sure path but his influence forces her to reevaluate the possibilities. One way or another, this won't be an easy ride.

His Neptune-Conjunct-Her Mars
Goals may be difficult to actively pursue, because for the most part what motivates these two lies in the realm of their imaginations. He is likely to be dependent on her, which may provoke him to manipulate her out of fear of losing her. Her personal strength and aggressiveness may also make him nervous, so he may display evasive or confusing behavior which frustrates her. Or, he may try to gain her sympathy by playing the victim.

His Nodes-Square-Her Jupiter
There may be some educational values and philosophies on her part conflicting with his psychological goals in life. However, squares involving this nodal axis in synastry also indicate an instant feeling of familiarity and attraction to one another. It may be difficult for each person to resist the pull of the relationship, despite differences.

Obviously a lot of this may seem vague, but we don’t know many specifics here like “ascendant signs” or where his planets are in her “houses” and vice versa. Fans of this stuff get quite technical here with the details and I am just working with the generalizations we know about.

Then again, maybe… as I joking re-quote Sean Lowe all of the time… astrology is “bunk”. We all have our own opinions on this stuff. If nothing else, it gives us something to add to what we see on our TV screens.

I forgot to read the bolded. Omg I was wracking my brains trying to figure this out. Thanks for the astrology read, JBF!

[JBF]

I debated on posting this silly business because it might be too complicated a read.

At the worse... oh... heck, everybody can skim through it, get all confused and then move on... LOL!

Then again, there may be a few humorous comments here and there you might remember later on when watching the show and say "Hey... I thought he might say/do something like that..."

[Guest]

Thanks JBF, for your unique hard work....appreciate it much..especially the part when it says:Chris is the best match for Des... . Go get her Chris!..hehe... :youdaman:

[Admin]

I enjoy reading your posts JBF! :Smiley:

[DesFever]

Your posts are always sweet and funny, JBF! Great job :D

[atem]

I debated on posting this silly business because it might be too complicated a read.

At the worse... oh... heck, everybody can skim through it, get all confused and then move on... LOL!

Then again, there may be a few humorous comments here and there you might remember later on when watching the show and say "Hey... I thought he might say/do something like that..."

I take it as all in fun!

[Baseball Mom]

I debated on posting this silly business because it might be too complicated a read.

At the worse... oh... heck, everybody can skim through it, get all confused and then move on... LOL!

Then again, there may be a few humorous comments here and there you might remember later on when watching the show and say "Hey... I thought he might say/do something like that..."

JBF, thank you so much for this interesting read. As the season unfolds, I'm sure there will be some AHA! moments where I'll go....hmmm and then I'll remember it was something you wrote

[JBF]

It probably doesn't matter, and it is probably already all out by now, but Brooks is 28 and his bday is October 7th. We were friends growing up and my birthday is the 11. It was easy to remember because 7-11. I remember we both got our drivers licenses on the same weekend... We thought we were pretty awesome haha

Wow... thanks! We thought it was July 10th. Goofed that one up with the numbers in reverse! Everybody has changing birthdays this season. Even Desiree's changed on us this season.

I'm sorry! I believe I am the one who found the site with his info and birth-date on it. I guess it was not right! Thanks for clearing that up for us Happyazz84! :Smiley:

What difference does it make? The folks on this show are chameleons!

Desiree's birthday was listed on Wetpaint and other places as July 1st. Then brother Nate got all huffy and puffy on twitter when her actual date of April 8th arrived and he couldn't figure out why he was being questioned about it. He even accused Reality Steve for making the blunder. Not that Steve Boy was going to take THAT lying down. He counter-attacked by saying he knew NOTHING about anybody's birthdays... which was correct. It was all quite funny in TwitterLand.

This is why we keep our birthday discussions on the Fun Thread. It is "fun" for us, and a "hassle" for those taking it all too seriously.

In any case... went ahead and re-edited an earlier post. Just keeping it all simple and To The Point here...

If Brooks is a sun sign Libra, moon sign Pisces... well, his personality has some "opposing" traits to more energized Sun sign/moon sign Aries Desiree. Brooks is definitely "type B" mellow here. Probably lets the other guys just run off steam while he sits back and watches.

Desiree has Mercury in Pisces so she communicates well with Brook's "feminine side" since his moon is in the same sign. Both are die hard romantics. Their Venuses are opposite: Taurus and Scorpio... and that's not necessarily a bad thing. They just both have that lusty, stubborn side to them. He is the more intense of the two.

They also are "control freaks" with that Capricorn Mars, so they may bump heads a lot regarding who should be in charge.

Interesting part about this match-up. Desiree has no air signs... no planets in Gemini, Libra or Aquarius. So Brooks gives her some things she lacks: namely more needed socializing. He may be the more talkative of the two if they do have a post-show relationship since his Mercury and Sun are pretty close together in Libra.

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