Episode 8 (HTD's) - 2/18 - Bachelor 17 - Discussion - Spoilers

Peppermom wrote:

marriedtoabaritone wrote:

jcrbil wrote:I think many have the wrong idea of what Christians believe as the man as head of the "household" thinking it necessarily requires submission in a negative sense. I think Christian marriage requires the husband to love his wife sacrificially (as Christ, who DIED for the church). The word that is often translated "submit" in the husband/wife scriptures is better translated "yield" as in a response to being loved. I have heard Sean want to say he is wants to be the spiritual head of the household, but as he said when Selma talked about once having made up her mind about something, it was made up, Sean expects both discussion and compromise (which connotes bi-lateral decision making).

This is such a tricky topic, but I think you did a great job explaining, jcrbil. I know in my own marriage, our goal is mutual submission, or a figurative dying to our own selfish desires (over what's best for our family). I do not think it means that we shouldn't have our own goals or dreams or that it's the wife's job to give in 100% of the time, which is how I think "submission" has come to be seen.

My husband and I have very unique strengths and skill sets that work best when we're working together toward a mutual goal. He is my best friend and it's my joy to show him love and respect, just as he does me.

How very well said, both of you. As a Christian in a Christian household, our lives are not submissive but we both give ourselves completely to each other and our family.

Regarding above post.....yay! I'm so glad someone posted that. I've been trying to figure out how to put that into words. Being a Christian who is extremely independent and having a career and having a Christian husband, it gets to me when others think he owns me or that I'm a door mat. My husband is a very sensitive guy. He takes his role very seriously. The longer we are married the more I find it attractive that he is a godly loving sensitive father and husband. I am truly blessed.

I almost forgot my thoughts from the Unspoiled and Elderly.

I love my in-laws, they really have compartmentalized the Bachelor as their Monday evening date, and only let it occupy their thoughts on the nights they watch the show. It helps that they stay away from the fray (internet and spoilers - they are not really that tech savvy) so unless it is blatantly emailed to them, they have no clue. I love that both my in-laws in their 70s chose B/ette and DWTS as two of the shows they have in common and yes would call it a date night. Normally my MIL would be watching her French shows and my FIL gardening and home improvement shows. I would love to emulate them right now and their ambivalence, but sadly I was sucked in too deep this season.

Like most unspoiled, if there are still any out there besides my in-laws, they see a much different story than I do. They are confused at this time, as they realize they should have more of a clue who would be the final one or two at this point they say. (BTW, they are regular viewers of the show so even if they don't remember names of B/ette alumnis they can describe them to me quite well). According to them they cannot read/see it in Sean's actions or words that he is partial to anyone going into FD. As much as I want to give them my insights, I don't want to spoil them or influence their thinking one way or another. But I am sooo dying to tell them what I think and get feedback. My MIL asked me the other day what I thought of the show this season. And I answered, "I know what's going to happen, unless you want to know the ending, you shouldn't ask me that." So we go on, I am so relieved they want to remain unspoiled.

At this time, they both think it is AshLee because she "seem" to have the poise and maturity that Sean is looking for in a wife plus their family backgrounds align. Finally, they agree on something this season. They add, Catherine and Lindsay are probably too young and not ready to settle down. So I ask them, "how can you tell from the little that they have shown us of them?" So my MIL says, "you're right." That gave them food for thought but they simply shrug it off and moved on to another subject. Again as in every week this season, this proves that our perspectives are influenced by knowledge and belief systems and that ABC has succeeded in making this season very unnecessarily complicated.

^^ I LOVE when you write about your in-laws "Cat"... It's interesting, I think, how they project (still project) Sean's image from the bachelor- all serious, desiring the poised woman.... like Emily? Yet if they did know what the eliminated girls said in their interviews, even, they'd know that he's funny (sarcastic) and a big kid (and he said in a couple of the HTDs that he's a "big kid"). I think that's one of the things that has the non-spoiled viewers confused- they don't have a good idea of who Sean is, so they are making assumptions about who is perfect for him- ones which are most likely incorrect. Will they be blind sided by his choice? Probably.

Catdwoman50 wrote:I almost forgot my thoughts from the Unspoiled and Elderly.

I love my in-laws, they really have compartmentalized the Bachelor as their Monday evening date, and only let it occupy their thoughts on the nights they watch the show. It helps that they stay away from the fray (internet and spoilers - they are not really that tech savvy) so unless it is blatantly emailed to them, they have no clue. I love that both my in-laws in their 70s chose B/ette and DWTS as two of the shows they have in common and yes would call it a date night. Normally my MIL would be watching her French shows and my FIL gardening and home improvement shows. I would love to emulate them right now and their ambivalence, but sadly I was sucked in too deep this season.

Like most unspoiled, if there are still any out there besides my in-laws, they see a much different story than I do. They are confused at this time, as they realize they should have more of a clue who would be the final one or two at this point they say. (BTW, they are regular viewers of the show so even if they don't remember names of B/ette alumnis they can describe them to me quite well). According to them they cannot read/see it in Sean's actions or words that he is partial to anyone going into FD. As much as I want to give them my insights, I don't want to spoil them or influence their thinking one way or another. But I am sooo dying to tell them what I think and get feedback. My MIL asked me the other day what I thought of the show this season. And I answered, "I know what's going to happen, unless you want to know the ending, you shouldn't ask me that." So we go on, I am so relieved they want to remain unspoiled.

At this time, they both think it is AshLee because she "seem" to have the poise and maturity that Sean is looking for in a wife plus their family backgrounds align. Finally, they agree on something this season. They add, Catherine and Lindsay are probably too young and not ready to settle down. So I ask them, "how can you tell from the little that they have shown us of them?" So my MIL says, "you're right." That gave them food for thought but they simply shrug it off and moved on to another subject. Again as in every week this season, this proves that our perspectives are influenced by knowledge and belief systems and that ABC has succeeded in making this season very unnecessarily complicated.

I appreciate you letting us know the insights from you in laws. I agree that the few unspoiled friends that I have are all over the place with who they think Sean picks. Right now a couple think he picks Lindsey because they have the most chemisty (which to me, who studies editing and such, means she's not the one). One thinks he picks AshLee because they have so much in common (another red flag for me which means she isn't the one). The last one isn't sure because while Sean seems to have the most in common with AshLee and they are a good fit, she doesn't see any chemistry. She isn't sure about Lindsey because she thinks that she is just too young and she says that he seems to have a lot of fun with Catherine, but, she hasn't seen enough with her to be sure. This last lady keeps asking me if he picks anyone.

I agree that this season seems very complicated, but, I think that a good deal of that is due to Sean and not just to editing. He really seems to have analyzed everything and everyone, including himself...to the point where towards the end he became a bit overwhelmed trying to think things through.

With regard to us being influenced by our beliefs and knowledge of spoilers...I'm not really all that sure about that, at least in the way that I think you mean it. I started learning about editing and the manipulations involved after Jason's season. Before that I just watched for the fun and never really thought about the show other than while watching...Like your in laws. Since then, there have been seasons, that even though I was spoiled, I didn't see the things that I was supposed to see according to what the edit wanted me to or what the spoilers told me will happen. I have to explain that I work in the field of developmental services. I specialize in people who have developmental diagnosis like autism or Down's syndrome. Very often they also have a psychiatric diagnosis such as mood disorders, schitzophrenia, obssessive compulsive disorders, etc. Most of these people I work with are non verbal and often very agressive. You have to learn to read body language...for your own safety! As a result, I can read people fairly well. This year has probably been the easiest for me to see through. I think part of it is due to my work experience and part of it is that I see Sean analyzing things in a way that is very similar to my own personality. I can see the doubt creeping in now because of editing and I catch myself second guessing myself...always a mistake. So while I am influenced by my work and personality, I really don't think I'm all that influenced by the spoilers other than paying more attention to certain people and curiosity about how producers are going to edit things to confuse us. Despite all of that, I still can't figure out if anyone will last outside of the Bachelor bubble in the real world!

Catdwoman50 wrote:I almost forgot my thoughts from the Unspoiled and Elderly.

I love my in-laws, they really have compartmentalized the Bachelor as their Monday evening date, and only let it occupy their thoughts on the nights they watch the show. It helps that they stay away from the fray (internet and spoilers - they are not really that tech savvy) so unless it is blatantly emailed to them, they have no clue. I love that both my in-laws in their 70s chose B/ette and DWTS as two of the shows they have in common and yes would call it a date night. Normally my MIL would be watching her French shows and my FIL gardening and home improvement shows. I would love to emulate them right now and their ambivalence, but sadly I was sucked in too deep this season.

Like most unspoiled, if there are still any out there besides my in-laws, they see a much different story than I do. They are confused at this time, as they realize they should have more of a clue who would be the final one or two at this point they say. (BTW, they are regular viewers of the show so even if they don't remember names of B/ette alumnis they can describe them to me quite well). According to them they cannot read/see it in Sean's actions or words that he is partial to anyone going into FD. As much as I want to give them my insights, I don't want to spoil them or influence their thinking one way or another. But I am sooo dying to tell them what I think and get feedback. My MIL asked me the other day what I thought of the show this season. And I answered, "I know what's going to happen, unless you want to know the ending, you shouldn't ask me that." So we go on, I am so relieved they want to remain unspoiled.

At this time, they both think it is AshLee because she "seem" to have the poise and maturity that Sean is looking for in a wife plus their family backgrounds align. Finally, they agree on something this season. They add, Catherine and Lindsay are probably too young and not ready to settle down. So I ask them, "how can you tell from the little that they have shown us of them?" So my MIL says, "you're right." That gave them food for thought but they simply shrug it off and moved on to another subject. Again as in every week this season, this proves that our perspectives are influenced by knowledge and belief systems and that ABC has succeeded in making this season very unnecessarily complicated.

They sound so cute and adorable... Cherish them as you are. Sadly my in laws have passed. ; ( I really enjoy your posts.

Sprite wrote:

Catdwoman50 wrote:I almost forgot my thoughts from the Unspoiled and Elderly.

I love my in-laws, they really have compartmentalized the Bachelor as their Monday evening date, and only let it occupy their thoughts on the nights they watch the show. It helps that they stay away from the fray (internet and spoilers - they are not really that tech savvy) so unless it is blatantly emailed to them, they have no clue. I love that both my in-laws in their 70s chose B/ette and DWTS as two of the shows they have in common and yes would call it a date night. Normally my MIL would be watching her French shows and my FIL gardening and home improvement shows. I would love to emulate them right now and their ambivalence, but sadly I was sucked in too deep this season.

Like most unspoiled, if there are still any out there besides my in-laws, they see a much different story than I do. They are confused at this time, as they realize they should have more of a clue who would be the final one or two at this point they say. (BTW, they are regular viewers of the show so even if they don't remember names of B/ette alumnis they can describe them to me quite well). According to them they cannot read/see it in Sean's actions or words that he is partial to anyone going into FD. As much as I want to give them my insights, I don't want to spoil them or influence their thinking one way or another. But I am sooo dying to tell them what I think and get feedback. My MIL asked me the other day what I thought of the show this season. And I answered, "I know what's going to happen, unless you want to know the ending, you shouldn't ask me that." So we go on, I am so relieved they want to remain unspoiled.

At this time, they both think it is AshLee because she "seem" to have the poise and maturity that Sean is looking for in a wife plus their family backgrounds align. Finally, they agree on something this season. They add, Catherine and Lindsay are probably too young and not ready to settle down. So I ask them, "how can you tell from the little that they have shown us of them?" So my MIL says, "you're right." That gave them food for thought but they simply shrug it off and moved on to another subject. Again as in every week this season, this proves that our perspectives are influenced by knowledge and belief systems and that ABC has succeeded in making this season very unnecessarily complicated.

I appreciate you letting us know the insights from you in laws. I agree that the few unspoiled friends that I have are all over the place with who they think Sean picks. Right now a couple think he picks Lindsey because they have the most chemisty (which to me, who studies editing and such, means she's not the one). One thinks he picks AshLee because they have so much in common (another red flag for me which means she isn't the one). The last one isn't sure because while Sean seems to have the most in common with AshLee and they are a good fit, she doesn't see any chemistry. She isn't sure about Lindsey because she thinks that she is just too young and she says that he seems to have a lot of fun with Catherine, but, she hasn't seen enough with her to be sure. This last lady keeps asking me if he picks anyone.

I agree that this season seems very complicated, but, I think that a good deal of that is due to Sean and not just to editing. He really seems to have analyzed everything and everyone, including himself...to the point where towards the end he became a bit overwhelmed trying to think things through.

With regard to us being influenced by our beliefs and knowledge of spoilers...I'm not really all that sure about that, at least in the way that I think you mean it. I started learning about editing and the manipulations involved after Jason's season. Before that I just watched for the fun and never really thought about the show other than while watching...Like your in laws. Since then, there have been seasons, that even though I was spoiled, I didn't see the things that I was supposed to see according to what the edit wanted me to or what the spoilers told me will happen. I have to explain that I work in the field of developmental services. I specialize in people who have developmental diagnosis like autism or Down's syndrome. Very often they also have a psychiatric diagnosis such as mood disorders, schitzophrenia, obssessive compulsive disorders, etc. Most of these people I work with are non verbal and often very agressive. You have to learn to read body language...for your own safety! As a result, I can read people fairly well. This year has probably been the easiest for me to see through. I think part of it is due to my work experience and part of it is that I see Sean analyzing things in a way that is very similar to my own personality. I can see the doubt creeping in now because of editing and I catch myself second guessing myself...always a mistake. So while I am influenced by my work and personality, I really don't think I'm all that influenced by the spoilers other than paying more attention to certain people and curiosity about how producers are going to edit things to confuse us. Despite all of that, I still can't figure out if anyone will last outside of the Bachelor bubble in the real world!

I work in a similar field as you, and I see him picking Catherine with his body language, his face and with the things he says about her. If I had been unspoiled she would have been my choice for him 100%. I still, although I can see all the boxes being checked with AshLee, do not read anything in his body language with her that goes past respect and appreciation.

I work in a field where I am always reading someone's body/ face and trying to get to the "why" of who they are and what they were thinking when they did that. I also work with aggressive people, many of whom have had zero language since birth and are what you could identify as "feral". If I don't figure them out, I can't teach them how to ask for what they want in acceptable ways.

Anyway, if I was reading Sean, he would be saying he has fun with Lindsay, he has respect and sympathy for AshLee, and he wants a life with Catherine but he is still trying to figure her out.

officeRules wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Catdwoman50 wrote:I almost forgot my thoughts from the Unspoiled and Elderly.

I love my in-laws, they really have compartmentalized the Bachelor as their Monday evening date, and only let it occupy their thoughts on the nights they watch the show. It helps that they stay away from the fray (internet and spoilers - they are not really that tech savvy) so unless it is blatantly emailed to them, they have no clue. I love that both my in-laws in their 70s chose B/ette and DWTS as two of the shows they have in common and yes would call it a date night. Normally my MIL would be watching her French shows and my FIL gardening and home improvement shows. I would love to emulate them right now and their ambivalence, but sadly I was sucked in too deep this season.

Like most unspoiled, if there are still any out there besides my in-laws, they see a much different story than I do. They are confused at this time, as they realize they should have more of a clue who would be the final one or two at this point they say. (BTW, they are regular viewers of the show so even if they don't remember names of B/ette alumnis they can describe them to me quite well). According to them they cannot read/see it in Sean's actions or words that he is partial to anyone going into FD. As much as I want to give them my insights, I don't want to spoil them or influence their thinking one way or another. But I am sooo dying to tell them what I think and get feedback. My MIL asked me the other day what I thought of the show this season. And I answered, "I know what's going to happen, unless you want to know the ending, you shouldn't ask me that." So we go on, I am so relieved they want to remain unspoiled.

At this time, they both think it is AshLee because she "seem" to have the poise and maturity that Sean is looking for in a wife plus their family backgrounds align. Finally, they agree on something this season. They add, Catherine and Lindsay are probably too young and not ready to settle down. So I ask them, "how can you tell from the little that they have shown us of them?" So my MIL says, "you're right." That gave them food for thought but they simply shrug it off and moved on to another subject. Again as in every week this season, this proves that our perspectives are influenced by knowledge and belief systems and that ABC has succeeded in making this season very unnecessarily complicated.

I appreciate you letting us know the insights from you in laws. I agree that the few unspoiled friends that I have are all over the place with who they think Sean picks. Right now a couple think he picks Lindsey because they have the most chemisty (which to me, who studies editing and such, means she's not the one). One thinks he picks AshLee because they have so much in common (another red flag for me which means she isn't the one). The last one isn't sure because while Sean seems to have the most in common with AshLee and they are a good fit, she doesn't see any chemistry. She isn't sure about Lindsey because she thinks that she is just too young and she says that he seems to have a lot of fun with Catherine, but, she hasn't seen enough with her to be sure. This last lady keeps asking me if he picks anyone.

I agree that this season seems very complicated, but, I think that a good deal of that is due to Sean and not just to editing. He really seems to have analyzed everything and everyone, including himself...to the point where towards the end he became a bit overwhelmed trying to think things through.

With regard to us being influenced by our beliefs and knowledge of spoilers...I'm not really all that sure about that, at least in the way that I think you mean it. I started learning about editing and the manipulations involved after Jason's season. Before that I just watched for the fun and never really thought about the show other than while watching...Like your in laws. Since then, there have been seasons, that even though I was spoiled, I didn't see the things that I was supposed to see according to what the edit wanted me to or what the spoilers told me will happen. I have to explain that I work in the field of developmental services. I specialize in people who have developmental diagnosis like autism or Down's syndrome. Very often they also have a psychiatric diagnosis such as mood disorders, schitzophrenia, obssessive compulsive disorders, etc. Most of these people I work with are non verbal and often very agressive. You have to learn to read body language...for your own safety! As a result, I can read people fairly well. This year has probably been the easiest for me to see through. I think part of it is due to my work experience and part of it is that I see Sean analyzing things in a way that is very similar to my own personality. I can see the doubt creeping in now because of editing and I catch myself second guessing myself...always a mistake. So while I am influenced by my work and personality, I really don't think I'm all that influenced by the spoilers other than paying more attention to certain people and curiosity about how producers are going to edit things to confuse us. Despite all of that, I still can't figure out if anyone will last outside of the Bachelor bubble in the real world!

I work in a similar field as you, and I see him picking Catherine with his body language, his face and with the things he says about her. If I had been unspoiled she would have been my choice for him 100%. I still, although I can see all the boxes being checked with AshLee, do not read anything in his body language with her that goes past respect and appreciation.

I work in a field where I am always reading someone's body/ face and trying to get to the "why" of who they are and what they were thinking when they did that. I also work with aggressive people, many of whom have had zero language since birth and are what you could identify as "feral". If I don't figure them out, I can't teach them how to ask for what they want in acceptable ways.

Anyway, if I was reading Sean, he would be saying he has fun with Lindsay, he has respect and sympathy for AshLee, and he wants a life with Catherine but he is still trying to figure her out.

As always we are influenced more by our own experiences...in our case, our work. It's funny to me because my friends will sometimes ask me did you notice that, and I'm like, "what"? If I'm not interested in something, I don't pay attention and sometimes have no clue...like a horse with blinders on, but, if something interests me and I am watching, I'm usually spot on. As I've gotten older and more experienced at my job, I've noticed how it has helped me deal with people beyond the professional aspect and now I can waste time trying to read the Bachelor!

Sprite wrote:

officeRules wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Catdwoman50 wrote:I almost forgot my thoughts from the Unspoiled and Elderly.

I love my in-laws, they really have compartmentalized the Bachelor as their Monday evening date, and only let it occupy their thoughts on the nights they watch the show. It helps that they stay away from the fray (internet and spoilers - they are not really that tech savvy) so unless it is blatantly emailed to them, they have no clue. I love that both my in-laws in their 70s chose B/ette and DWTS as two of the shows they have in common and yes would call it a date night. Normally my MIL would be watching her French shows and my FIL gardening and home improvement shows. I would love to emulate them right now and their ambivalence, but sadly I was sucked in too deep this season.

Like most unspoiled, if there are still any out there besides my in-laws, they see a much different story than I do. They are confused at this time, as they realize they should have more of a clue who would be the final one or two at this point they say. (BTW, they are regular viewers of the show so even if they don't remember names of B/ette alumnis they can describe them to me quite well). According to them they cannot read/see it in Sean's actions or words that he is partial to anyone going into FD. As much as I want to give them my insights, I don't want to spoil them or influence their thinking one way or another. But I am sooo dying to tell them what I think and get feedback. My MIL asked me the other day what I thought of the show this season. And I answered, "I know what's going to happen, unless you want to know the ending, you shouldn't ask me that." So we go on, I am so relieved they want to remain unspoiled.

At this time, they both think it is AshLee because she "seem" to have the poise and maturity that Sean is looking for in a wife plus their family backgrounds align. Finally, they agree on something this season. They add, Catherine and Lindsay are probably too young and not ready to settle down. So I ask them, "how can you tell from the little that they have shown us of them?" So my MIL says, "you're right." That gave them food for thought but they simply shrug it off and moved on to another subject. Again as in every week this season, this proves that our perspectives are influenced by knowledge and belief systems and that ABC has succeeded in making this season very unnecessarily complicated.

I appreciate you letting us know the insights from you in laws. I agree that the few unspoiled friends that I have are all over the place with who they think Sean picks. Right now a couple think he picks Lindsey because they have the most chemisty (which to me, who studies editing and such, means she's not the one). One thinks he picks AshLee because they have so much in common (another red flag for me which means she isn't the one). The last one isn't sure because while Sean seems to have the most in common with AshLee and they are a good fit, she doesn't see any chemistry. She isn't sure about Lindsey because she thinks that she is just too young and she says that he seems to have a lot of fun with Catherine, but, she hasn't seen enough with her to be sure. This last lady keeps asking me if he picks anyone.

I agree that this season seems very complicated, but, I think that a good deal of that is due to Sean and not just to editing. He really seems to have analyzed everything and everyone, including himself...to the point where towards the end he became a bit overwhelmed trying to think things through.

With regard to us being influenced by our beliefs and knowledge of spoilers...I'm not really all that sure about that, at least in the way that I think you mean it. I started learning about editing and the manipulations involved after Jason's season. Before that I just watched for the fun and never really thought about the show other than while watching...Like your in laws. Since then, there have been seasons, that even though I was spoiled, I didn't see the things that I was supposed to see according to what the edit wanted me to or what the spoilers told me will happen. I have to explain that I work in the field of developmental services. I specialize in people who have developmental diagnosis like autism or Down's syndrome. Very often they also have a psychiatric diagnosis such as mood disorders, schitzophrenia, obssessive compulsive disorders, etc. Most of these people I work with are non verbal and often very agressive. You have to learn to read body language...for your own safety! As a result, I can read people fairly well. This year has probably been the easiest for me to see through. I think part of it is due to my work experience and part of it is that I see Sean analyzing things in a way that is very similar to my own personality. I can see the doubt creeping in now because of editing and I catch myself second guessing myself...always a mistake. So while I am influenced by my work and personality, I really don't think I'm all that influenced by the spoilers other than paying more attention to certain people and curiosity about how producers are going to edit things to confuse us. Despite all of that, I still can't figure out if anyone will last outside of the Bachelor bubble in the real world!

I work in a similar field as you, and I see him picking Catherine with his body language, his face and with the things he says about her. If I had been unspoiled she would have been my choice for him 100%. I still, although I can see all the boxes being checked with AshLee, do not read anything in his body language with her that goes past respect and appreciation.

I work in a field where I am always reading someone's body/ face and trying to get to the "why" of who they are and what they were thinking when they did that. I also work with aggressive people, many of whom have had zero language since birth and are what you could identify as "feral". If I don't figure them out, I can't teach them how to ask for what they want in acceptable ways.

Anyway, if I was reading Sean, he would be saying he has fun with Lindsay, he has respect and sympathy for AshLee, and he wants a life with Catherine but he is still trying to figure her out.

As always we are influenced more by our own experiences...in our case, our work. It's funny to me because my friends will sometimes ask me did you notice that, and I'm like, "what"? If I'm not interested in something, I don't pay attention and sometimes have no clue...like a horse with blinders on, but, if something interests me and I am watching, I'm usually spot on. As I've gotten older and more experienced at my job, I've noticed how it has helped me deal with people beyond the professional aspect and now I can waste time trying to read the Bachelor!

off topic, but wanted to say Thank You to you wo who work in those fields. From my perspective, it seems like a tough job, and I applaud you for all that you do!

officeRules wrote:

I work in a field where I am always reading someone's body/ face and trying to get to the "why" of who they are and what they were thinking when they did that. I also work with aggressive people, many of whom have had zero language since birth and are what you could identify as "feral". If I don't figure them out, I can't teach them how to ask for what they want in acceptable ways.

Anyway, if I was reading Sean, he would be saying he has fun with Lindsay, he has respect and sympathy for AshLee, and he wants a life with Catherine but he is still trying to figure her out.

[list=1][*]

There is no human on the planet who I would describe as 'feral'!!!!!

Peppermom wrote:

marriedtoabaritone wrote:

jcrbil wrote:I think many have the wrong idea of what Christians believe as the man as head of the "household" thinking it necessarily requires submission in a negative sense. I think Christian marriage requires the husband to love his wife sacrificially (as Christ, who DIED for the church). The word that is often translated "submit" in the husband/wife scriptures is better translated "yield" as in a response to being loved. I have heard Sean want to say he is wants to be the spiritual head of the household, but as he said when Selma talked about once having made up her mind about something, it was made up, Sean expects both discussion and compromise (which connotes bi-lateral decision making).

This is such a tricky topic, but I think you did a great job explaining, jcrbil. I know in my own marriage, our goal is mutual submission, or a figurative dying to our own selfish desires (over what's best for our family). I do not think it means that we shouldn't have our own goals or dreams or that it's the wife's job to give in 100% of the time, which is how I think "submission" has come to be seen.

My husband and I have very unique strengths and skill sets that work best when we're working together toward a mutual goal. He is my best friend and it's my joy to show him love and respect, just as he does me.

How very well said, both of you. As a Christian in a Christian household, our lives are not submissive but we both give ourselves completely to each other and our family.

I realize how the majority of Christians interpret it all, but there IS a small subset that interprets it very differently, and in that subset the word "sweet" has a different meaning. I consider it unlikely that Sean would have those (what I consider) more extreme beliefs, but I have no way to know.

I am sorry if anyone thought I was trying to imply anything more broad; I most certainly was not; but I've come across members of this one subset on the internet, and know they very much exist. My husband and I are both practicing Christians but NOT of that subset.

Jeepers wrote:

officeRules wrote:

I work in a field where I am always reading someone's body/ face and trying to get to the "why" of who they are and what they were thinking when they did that. I also work with aggressive people, many of whom have had zero language since birth and are what you could identify as "feral". If I don't figure them out, I can't teach them how to ask for what they want in acceptable ways.

Anyway, if I was reading Sean, he would be saying he has fun with Lindsay, he has respect and sympathy for AshLee, and he wants a life with Catherine but he is still trying to figure her out.

There is no human on the planet who I would describe as 'feral'!!!!!

i have to agree with jeepers here...

dw_a_mom wrote:

Peppermom wrote:

marriedtoabaritone wrote:

jcrbil wrote:I think many have the wrong idea of what Christians believe as the man as head of the "household" thinking it necessarily requires submission in a negative sense. I think Christian marriage requires the husband to love his wife sacrificially (as Christ, who DIED for the church). The word that is often translated "submit" in the husband/wife scriptures is better translated "yield" as in a response to being loved. I have heard Sean want to say he is wants to be the spiritual head of the household, but as he said when Selma talked about once having made up her mind about something, it was made up, Sean expects both discussion and compromise (which connotes bi-lateral decision making).

This is such a tricky topic, but I think you did a great job explaining, jcrbil. I know in my own marriage, our goal is mutual submission, or a figurative dying to our own selfish desires (over what's best for our family). I do not think it means that we shouldn't have our own goals or dreams or that it's the wife's job to give in 100% of the time, which is how I think "submission" has come to be seen.

My husband and I have very unique strengths and skill sets that work best when we're working together toward a mutual goal. He is my best friend and it's my joy to show him love and respect, just as he does me.

How very well said, both of you. As a Christian in a Christian household, our lives are not submissive but we both give ourselves completely to each other and our family.

I realize how the majority of Christians interpret it all, but there IS a small subset that interprets it very differently, and in that subset the word "sweet" has a different meaning. I consider it unlikely that Sean would have those (what I consider) more extreme beliefs, but I have no way to know.

I am sorry if anyone thought I was trying to imply anything more broad; I most certainly was not; but I've come across members of this one subset on the internet, and know they very much exist. My husband and I are both practicing Christians but NOT of that subset.

this is what i was referring to as well. sadly, there has been abuse done to women in the name of God by those who take these scriptures and use them for their own selfish purposes. i believe it is more common than a lot of christians realize. faithful christians do disagree on the interpretation of these scriptures without using them to abuse others. personally, i believe in mutual submission but do respect my complementarian friends.

getting back to the bachelor i think if sean believes he is to be head of the household then it's good he didn't choose selma.