Tweet/Facebook Updates - Bachelor 17 - Discussion

albean99 wrote:Talking about the FS reminded me of Meredith. She was supposed to go on a FD with Matthew after spending the night with Ian and apparently was crying and didn't want to go. Ian had to talk her into it and is why it was late afternoon when she went to meet with Matt.

I know it doesn't apply but shows that leads have a lot of trouble even when they know exactly who they'll end up with. I have no idea exactly what Sean said but really don't think he'd have any reason to tell Ashlee that he didn't have feelings for the other 2 (especially Catherine) when he clearly did.

I don't think people are making excuses for Sean, NV. From what I can see a lot feel like I do that the truth is something in between what he said she said. Every lead has to mislead and it's never pretty. I don't like it whether I like the lead or not but it's what you have to do. I've been known to criticize them myself when they hurt my favorite.

I vividly remember that, Albean! I knew and understood how you empathized with Ben after the FRC. I was a Jash fan from get go but i did have doubts if the spoilers were true seeing Ashley "making out" with Ben. The Body Language is there! I understood Ben's anger at the FRC. But not Ashlee, almost everybody saw how Sean's BL was already distant from her in their cave date! He was like just going thru the motions. What sealed her death sentence was her expressing her ring preference! I don't think Ashlee was blindsided! She was just "blind" to see Sean was already "tuning out"!

albean99 wrote:Talking about the FS reminded me of Meredith. She was supposed to go on a FD with Matthew after spending the night with Ian and apparently was crying and didn't want to go. Ian had to talk her into it and is why it was late afternoon when she went to meet with Matt.

I know it doesn't apply but shows that leads have a lot of trouble even when they know exactly who they'll end up with. I have no idea exactly what Sean said but really don't think he'd have any reason to tell Ashlee that he didn't have feelings for the other 2 (especially Catherine) when he clearly did.

I don't think people are making excuses for Sean, NV. From what I can see a lot feel like I do that the truth is something in between what he said she said. Every lead has to mislead and it's never pretty. I don't like it whether I like the lead or not but it's what you have to do. I've been known to criticize them myself when they hurt my favorite.

Meredith knew who she wanted, Sean didn't. He had an excruciating week deciding between Cat/Lindsay. People are criticizing him because he's been indecisive all season. After HTD's, he knew, for sure AshLee/Lindsay were getting roses but wasn't sure about whether to send Cat or Des home but Cat becomes his F1? How is that believable when you just showed us that you liked Ashlee/Lindsay more than you did Cat? CH also said that Cat was on the chopping block the next week with AshLee after FD's but luckily AshLee got eliminated. Really?!

I totally get what you're saying and the majority of my post isnt even directed at you but I can understand why people (including me, obvi) are frustrated with Sean.

biglove44 wrote:

albean99 wrote:Talking about the FS reminded me of Meredith. She was supposed to go on a FD with Matthew after spending the night with Ian and apparently was crying and didn't want to go. Ian had to talk her into it and is why it was late afternoon when she went to meet with Matt.

I know it doesn't apply but shows that leads have a lot of trouble even when they know exactly who they'll end up with. I have no idea exactly what Sean said but really don't think he'd have any reason to tell Ashlee that he didn't have feelings for the other 2 (especially Catherine) when he clearly did.

I don't think people are making excuses for Sean, NV. From what I can see a lot feel like I do that the truth is something in between what he said she said. Every lead has to mislead and it's never pretty. I don't like it whether I like the lead or not but it's what you have to do. I've been known to criticize them myself when they hurt my favorite.

Meredith knew who she wanted, Sean didn't. He had an excruciating week deciding between Cat/Lindsay. People are criticizing him because he's been indecisive all season. After HTD's, he knew, for sure AshLee/Lindsay were getting roses but wasn't sure about whether to send Cat or Des home but Cat becomes his F1? How is that believable when you just showed us that you liked Ashlee/Lindsay more than you did Cat? CH also said that Cat was on the chopping block the next week with AshLee after FD's but luckily AshLee got eliminated. Really?!

I totally get what you're saying and the majority of my post isnt even directed at you but I can understand why people (including me, obvi) are frustrated with Sean.

I understand, but, everyone has different ways of making decisions. Sean seems to be very methodical and plodding during the process. He was weighing his options, looking at pros and cons...using his head to check off his list. At some point, he exhausts that and has to let his heart take over. (I think that came during the fantasy date week.) Clearly, this was a messy process and then producers inject doubt through the edit and post show efforts to create drama and controversy, leading to frustrated viewers and a seemingly wishy washy lead. The post show relationship...or lack thereof...will tell the tale.

1 hr Billy Bush ‏@billybush
How did we do with @seanlowe09 ? #thebachelor is a good guy. I do my believe he hoodwinked Ashlee.
Expand

‏@ashleefrazier
@billybush Hahaha! He's a good guy...he was probably just caught up in the romantic bachelor evening #SoOverIt #SoNotMad xoxo

This is why I cannot take the allegation seriously, now she's not mad after she was able to sling mud on national tv.

I really think Sean may have said something but her intention was to discredit him and his relationship with F1.

And now Ashlee is insuniating that it was said in the middle of a "romantic bachelor evening". Every statment is loaded and was meant to break his current relationship.

I was this close to believing her though.

^^^Agree, although I think that she is still angry despite her #SoNotMad claim. She's taken every opportunity to twist the knife just a little bit and then back off by saying Sean's a good guy.

Someone who's over it doesn't keep bringing attention to it.

3 more days!!!!

twinkletoes143 wrote:I really think Sean may have said something but her intention was to discredit him and his relationship with F1.

And now Ashlee is insinuating that it was said in the middle of a "romantic bachelor evening". Every statement is loaded and was meant to break his current relationship.

I was this close to believing her though.

I've little doubt that Sean said something. But I also have little doubt that he said what AshLee heard or that AshLee heard what he said. From one show to the next we hear bachelor after bachelorette say similar things: "When we were cooking yak meat in Outer Mongolia I could see myself married to you" or "I love that about you". It's a short trip from statements like these to believing they want to get married or are in love and woe be unto the poor contestant who doesn't read between the lines and hears only what they want to hear.

I was closer to believing her before I heard that she had to reread her diary to refresh her memory about what he said and before you point out how her statements are so loaded.

biglove44 wrote:

albean99 wrote:Talking about the FS reminded me of Meredith. She was supposed to go on a FD with Matthew after spending the night with Ian and apparently was crying and didn't want to go. Ian had to talk her into it and is why it was late afternoon when she went to meet with Matt.

I know it doesn't apply but shows that leads have a lot of trouble even when they know exactly who they'll end up with. I have no idea exactly what Sean said but really don't think he'd have any reason to tell Ashlee that he didn't have feelings for the other 2 (especially Catherine) when he clearly did.

I don't think people are making excuses for Sean, NV. From what I can see a lot feel like I do that the truth is something in between what he said she said. Every lead has to mislead and it's never pretty. I don't like it whether I like the lead or not but it's what you have to do. I've been known to criticize them myself when they hurt my favorite.

Meredith knew who she wanted, Sean didn't. He had an excruciating week deciding between Cat/Lindsay. People are criticizing him because he's been indecisive all season. After HTD's, he knew, for sure AshLee/Lindsay were getting roses but wasn't sure about whether to send Cat or Des home but Cat becomes his F1? How is that believable when you just showed us that you liked Ashlee/Lindsay more than you did Cat? CH also said that Cat was on the chopping block the next week with AshLee after FD's but luckily AshLee got eliminated. Really?!

I totally get what you're saying and the majority of my post isnt even directed at you but I can understand why people (including me, obvi) are frustrated with Sean.

He has to desperately cling to the script (that he is confused and he goes back and forth, back and forth) because the alternative is admitting that he is LYING to these women and that is very detrimental to his view of himself as a man of integrity/man of God. He cannot admit that lying and deception is the heart and centerpiece of this show, so he upholds this persona who is sincerely confused and falls in love to multiple woman. He'd rather be seen as wishy washy than a liar. But as we've seen in WTA, it has backfired with Ashlee.

In my line of work, I observe that men who cheats on their wives for instance who are very religious, compartmentalized their persona so much. They are able to wear many hats, Sean is not this bad yet, but I can see that the limelight has forced him to have many differernt persona (chaste and pure vs stripping his clothes for the girls, saying Im crazy about you to keep the girls in the show vs sincerely wanting to find his soulmate. I hope this makes sense, YMMV

twinkletoes143 wrote:

biglove44 wrote:

albean99 wrote:Talking about the FS reminded me of Meredith. She was supposed to go on a FD with Matthew after spending the night with Ian and apparently was crying and didn't want to go. Ian had to talk her into it and is why it was late afternoon when she went to meet with Matt.

I know it doesn't apply but shows that leads have a lot of trouble even when they know exactly who they'll end up with. I have no idea exactly what Sean said but really don't think he'd have any reason to tell Ashlee that he didn't have feelings for the other 2 (especially Catherine) when he clearly did.

I don't think people are making excuses for Sean, NV. From what I can see a lot feel like I do that the truth is something in between what he said she said. Every lead has to mislead and it's never pretty. I don't like it whether I like the lead or not but it's what you have to do. I've been known to criticize them myself when they hurt my favorite.

Meredith knew who she wanted, Sean didn't. He had an excruciating week deciding between Cat/Lindsay. People are criticizing him because he's been indecisive all season. After HTD's, he knew, for sure AshLee/Lindsay were getting roses but wasn't sure about whether to send Cat or Des home but Cat becomes his F1? How is that believable when you just showed us that you liked Ashlee/Lindsay more than you did Cat? CH also said that Cat was on the chopping block the next week with AshLee after FD's but luckily AshLee got eliminated. Really?!

I totally get what you're saying and the majority of my post isnt even directed at you but I can understand why people (including me, obvi) are frustrated with Sean.

He has to desperately cling to the script (that he is confused and he goes back and forth, back and forth) because the alternative is admitting that he is LYING to these women and that is very detrimental to his view of himself as a man of integrity/man of God. He cannot admit that lying and deception is the heart and centerpiece of this show, so he upholds this persona who is sincerely confused and falls in love to multiple woman. He'd rather be seen as wishy washy than a liar. But as we've seen in WTA, it has backfired with Ashlee.

In my line of work, I observe that men who cheats on their wives for instance who are very religious, compartmentalized their persona so much. They are able to wear many hats, Sean is not this bad yet, but I can see that the limelight has forced him to have many differernt persona (chaste and pure vs stripping his clothes for the girls, saying Im crazy about you to keep the girls in the show vs sincerely wanting to find his soulmate. I hope this makes sense, YMMV

From interviews Sean has shown a pretty good understanding of what it takes to be the lead and some of the deception that is just a natural part of the show. I do not see that he is conflicted in that...his issue seems to be with not wanting to hurt people...that is where he is conflicted. Not that he has to do these things, but rather, where it leads to hurting others. He seems to have a fairly sound idea of who he is and appears to be content with himself. And for the record, for me, Sean seems much more believable on the FS issue. He has been consistantly acting and saying the same stuff, AshLee on the other hand only changed her tune after she had been eliminated and keeps saying she is over it, but, continues with her barbs at him and indirectly at the other two women. Passive aggressive in spades.

twinkletoes143 wrote:1 hr Billy Bush ‏@billybush
How did we do with @seanlowe09 ? #thebachelor is a good guy. I do my believe he hoodwinked Ashlee.
Expand

‏@ashleefrazier
@billybush Hahaha! He's a good guy...he was probably just caught up in the romantic bachelor evening #SoOverIt #SoNotMad xoxo

This is why I cannot take the allegation seriously, now she's not mad after she was able to sling mud on national tv.

I really think Sean may have said something but her intention was to discredit him and his relationship with F1.

And now Ashlee is insuniating that it was said in the middle of a "romantic bachelor evening". Every statment is loaded and was meant to break his current relationship.

I was this close to believing her though.

I don't think Ashlee's motive was to discredit him... I think all she wanted to do was justify why she acted like she did when he let her go. She was visibly upset and didn't even want to speak to him or the camera. CH seems to blieve her too for some reason.

I personally don't care for Ashlee, would never watch her if she was the next Bach'ette, and can't believe that Sean kept her as long as he did as I never saw them as compatible. I think the girl still needs to see a therapist as she clearly still has some issues to talk about.... but I do believe that Sean said what she says he did, or words to that effect. Do I think he'd ever admit it if he did?? no I don't.... but he sure looked guilty when talking to her at the WTA

When Ashlee was asking Sean to admit it, she tilted her head, and used a softer voice say "Sean, Sean, come on", it almost looked like she's flirting with him, which was super strange to me.

This women would never let the past go, and definitely still in love with 'this guy' who she spent a few dates with a couple months ago.

sky wrote:When Ashlee was asking Sean to admit it, she tilted her head, and used a softer voice say "Sean, Sean, come on", it almost looked like she's flirting with him, which was super strange to me.

This women would never let the past go, and definitely still in love with 'this guy' who she spent a few dates with a couple months ago.

Well, Sean proposed to a girl that he spent less time with than he did Ashlee.... so stranger things do happen