Re: Bachelorette 7 General Discussion - Thread #2

[pavalygurl]

Updated the list. Please keep the suggestions coming. Thanks!

Please note: the relevance of all these points is disputed. The accuracy of some points is disputed and noted if so. I added a bunch from the suggestions you all made.

Why JP is F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged.
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Blondiegal has a source who says JP is F1 but this is not the source that has given Blondiegal the last 2 F1s.
3: Physical chemistry with Ashley, which with Bachelorettes, usually means the F1 (Meredith, Jillian, Ali, only Trista could be considered the exception). [Thanks ironcat]
4: Ashley told JP about Bent's return privately and before she told any of the other guys including Lucas with whom she had a solo date and everybody else she had a group date with.
5: Ashley's People blog for Episode 6 says "Truth is the only way to build a real love. And in more ways than one, this episode marks the beginning of my beautiful, truthful, honest, genuine love story." Episode 6 was Ashley's 2nd 1-on-1 date with JP and Ben F wasn't featured that prominently in it.
6: ET Canada claimed to have photos of them leaving the same place in New York within hours. Those pictures never surfaced in the US and it hasn't been verified that they were actually in the same place. However they were both in New York that weekend (June 25th/26th). JP was photographed in the subway and Ashley H was there visiting Ashley S.
7: Ashley said "Bye JP, Bye everyone!" at the end of her 6/27 Jimmy Kimmel interview.
8: JP had solo date in episode 3, same as F1s Ed, Roberto, Ian, Ryan, Jerry, Emily. No F1 has ever had first solo date in episode 5. [Thanks ironcat]
9: JP defended Ashley in his vlog for Episode 6 telling everybody to keep in mind that there are stresses people on the show are under that people watching at home may not understand.
10: Shadow/sun analysis appears to place JP (based on jawline and lack of hair around collar) at the FRC later than Ben F (IDd by hands and watch). [Thanks to many sleuthers]
11: OK and In Touch both said JP's F1 but in negative stories saying the relationship is over or not going well. In Touch's story has a few of the same key words/storyline ("jerk"/wandering eye) as a story on Roberto that came out last year after he was revealed as Ali's F1.
12: Life & Style said Ashley is engaged and her F1 had had his heart broken before but is in the "best place he's ever been". Star quoted an unnamed friend of JP's saying he's in the "best place he's ever been".
13: West and Will both commented on Ashley's special connection with JP in their exit interviews. Will said "J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her I would pick J.P. I saw their interactions and the look on their faces when they got to be around each other, and it's that look two people have when they're really in love." Wes said ""I think based on my gut, just from seeing her interactions with people, I really thought that JP was going to be the one that she picked. They had this natural chemistry together. You could see whenever we were in a group together and he was there, she tended to gravitate towards him. There was just this easy kind of connection evident from them. I think he would make the best choice."
14: Not seen in New York when Ashley was in LA (she was spotted flying out to LA June 29th and back in Philadelphia airport July 5th). Spotted in New York July 6th.
15: Early in the season Ashley S was gushy about JP and Ashley H but made a crack about Ben F reminding her of the Geico caveman.
16: Chris H had a slip up in an interview when he was defending not telling Ash about Bentley. He said "should we tell Ali what Roberto said behind her back or should we tell Ashley what JP is saying" [thanks pattycake92]
17: In Ashley's 1st press conference after filming ending she said "Ashley Hebert: Yes, I mean I think what I realize is that I went into a thing I wanted just a good man and somebody who is loyal and a family man, and I think as time went on there were more things that I saw in the guys that I wanted but most importantly what I realize is that I wanted someone that made feel good and made me feel like a women, made me feel like I was able to be vulnerable. And so, yes, definitely as time went I started to realize more about what I wanted." She reiterated "I mean I am looking for somebody that I feel I can trust, like somebody that’s really loyal and a family man and I said that I go into it and I don’t know if I get them kind of being redundant here, but I just want somebody that makes me feel. I like my life off of my gut and intuition and I have learned to trust that and I think it has led me to some really great places. So I am just looking for somebody that makes me feel." In Ep 6 Ashley said the following about JP: "He’s such a loyal guy. He’s determined and he’s committed. He’s gonna be a great family man. He is the total package for me." and "I’m so comfortable around him, I feel secure, I feel relaxed, I feel like I don’t have a care in the world. It’s a good feeling, it really is a good feeling. I really feel like there may be somebody here for me." Ashley's 1st 1-on-1 date with JP involved her being tired and emotionally spent after Bent left and she said in the People blog JP was the best guy for that. [Thanks JBF]
18: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." Bent was presented as an early frontrunner and so was William along with JP. JP's been the only steady frontrunner up to this point. [Thanks JBF]

Why JP is not F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged (Fleissed again?)
2: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
3: Physical chemistry edit didn't bode well for F2 Kiptyn (Jillian) or F2 Chantal (Brad)
4: Too obvious, too early.
5: Both his dates have been paired with the Bent storyline.
6: He's the public's favorite right now and the public favorite often isn't F1 but instead is being courted to be the next Bachelor.

Why Ben is F1
1: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
2: Hidden
3: West mentioned Ben F as somebody who's good with Ashley: " As far as maybe another person who would be up here, probably Ben F. He's really easy to get along with and super funny. He's always so laid back no matter what the situation and I thought that was really cool."
4: In her Episode 4 blog (when Ben F got the group date rose at the orphanage) Ashley said "Looking back at this week, the most important lesson I took away is that the best type of love starts off with a slow burn, and eventually turns into something much brighter than a spark ever could."
5: CH included Ben F among guys confident enough in his relationship with Ashley that he didn't react negatively to her news about Bent coming to Hong Kong.
6: Ashley S's gotten more balanced in her live tweets since the show started and Ben F actually tweeted her back when she complained about his yellow sweater.
7: TheBachelor.TV keeps tweeting out behind the scenes pictures of Ashley and Ben F
8: Ashley's twitter profile picture is of her from the Ep 2 dance date which was a group date where Ben F and his team won. [Thanks allykat]
9: ABC's May 3rd press release described Ben F as a "handsome broken hearted winemaker" meaning he might fit Life & Style's description of Ashley's F1. [Thanks happyntexas]
10: In the season's 1st press conference Ashley said "So I would have to say one of my favorite group dates was, we are in Thailand and we actually renovated an orphanage and that was the most rewarding and probably the most exciting group dates that I went on. I mean it's something that I will remember for the rest of life." Ben F got the group date rose from that date and Ashley commented in her blog about how much he impressed and touched her during that date. [Thanks JBF]
11: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." JP was more of an early frontrunner than Ben F but this statement isn't that specific about when Ashley's frontrunners changed. [Thanks JBF]

Why Ben is not F1
1: Ben F was one of CH's 5 "Ones to Watch" which has never included F1 for B'ettes (only 1 F1 in the B/ette franchise was in there: Shayne during Matt's season) [Thanks ironcat]
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Tweeting "Hi. I'm writing back." in reply to Michelle Money. Tweet deleted. Also socially tweeting Jesse K/Natalie Getz and several other people in the Bachelor world. Those tweets also deleted. Ben F is allegedly not the only person with access to the evolvewines twitter account.
4: Jesse K said in Bachelorette Beatdown that he'd seen Ben F and he was sure Ben F was not F1. But he did not say why so we don't know if he just saw Ben F or saw him do something that would make it unlikely he's F1.
5: So hidden people see more of his bromance with Dino than his connection with Ashley.
6: Allegedly seen 3 or 4 times out in San Francisco area during July 4th weekend when Ashley had flown to LA to sit down with CH but also possibly spend a safehouse weekend with her F1. [Fill in actual tweets]
7: Ben retweeted a link to a snarky blog (lost angeles) that included Ashley in its equal opportunity snark. But he is allegedly not the only one with access to the evolvewines twitter account. [Thanks Alanna]
8: Ben's vlog after his 1st 1-on-1 date was arguably dry and flat compared to JP's.
9: Ashley S. posted: "Honestly, I'm surprised about the tweeting as well. As soon as we were found out, they shut us down. However, I think it is in very poor taste for my season's girls or Ash's guys to tweet to each other about meeting up. I think they could wait 5 more weeks or use DM on twitter to at least be a little more discreet. That's uber-disrespectful to Ash and the show." -- posted on Tweets/Facebook Updates - Discussion - Spoilers by AshleyS on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am [Thanks Cari]

Links to People's B'ette coverage including Ashley's blogs: http://www.people.com/people/news/category/0,,MediaProductsTax:TVTheBacheloretteSeries_2,00.html

Ashley's press conference May 19th: (thanks JBF)
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Okay, I'll bite. On the only date where JP and Ben went head to head, Ben got the rose.

[pavalygurl]

Thanks cfck2222. So JP has 18 pro-F1, but Ben is building up to 11, although fijiman can't make up his mind. Looks like we are at least trying to get the scales balanced here. (Alas, everytime I add a rock onto Ben's, JP's gets another couple... I really WANT to see more balance here, but I'm afraid poor Benny has already been catapulted.)

This is exactly why the list thing is not gonna work. It is not a popularity contest, the only vote that counts is Ash's. She very well may choose JP, who knows.

[noobsleuth]

cfck2222, I think you should add under reasons why Ben isn't F1, if Ash and Ben actually had kissed earlier, as he said to JP (personally, I think Ben was just kidding), the fact that it wasn't shown would be unusual if he was F1).

I second this... reminded me of Reid and Jillian.

[Guest]

Just for fun, I want to play Devil's Advocate today and speculate on the selfish reasons or ulterior motives of the last 10 contestants of Bachelorette season 7 for coming on the show. This is assuming their motive was not really to find love with Ashley.Disclaimer......this is purely a cynical exercise and should be taken with a grain of salt:-)


10.William-to gain hollywood exposure and land Saturday Night Live or comedy club gig
9.Nick-to get a lots of clients and book a workout deal
8.Mickey-to get TV deal with the Food Network or TV cooking show
7.Blake-to get more dental patients
6.Lucas-to get over his bitter divorce and travel out of TX
5.Ryan-to promote his solar based company
4.Ames-he is bored and wants to travel the world for free this time3.Constantine-to promote their family restaurant
2.Ben- free advertising for his winery /wines
1.JP-to get over a break-up and promote his new real estate dev't business venture

My personal favorite... #4!! :laughingoutlou

[ninu]

Watch list:

MTA outtakes - (they showed Jilli and Ed, Ali and Roberto)
HTD no goodbye with F1
References to the future by the lead and the F1 using approx same words?
Post-show stuff that will come out soon

[CarrieA]

Watch list:

MTA outtakes - (they showed Jilli and Ed, Ali and Roberto)
HTD no goodbye with F1
References to the future by the lead and the F1 using approx same words?
Post-show stuff that will come out soon

And a LOT of Brad and Emily.

[Fleurdesel]

For me the only real clue that JP is F1 (already listed though) is what he said on his Vblog that good things are in store for Ashley.
That was like a flashing neon sign if any.

...and I would JP know that unless he was part of those "good things"? or maybe not, Lol...

[northernviewer]

Thanks cfck2222. So JP has 18 pro-F1, but Ben is building up to 11, although fijiman can't make up his mind. Looks like we are at least trying to get the scales balanced here. (Alas, everytime I add a rock onto Ben's, JP's gets another couple... I really WANT to see more balance here, but I'm afraid poor Benny has already been catapulted.)

This is exactly why the list thing is not gonna work. It is not a popularity contest, the only vote that counts is Ash's. She very well may choose JP, who knows.

I don't think the list was designed to be to see who's most popular, it's to list all the points that are being considered as "evidence" as to who could be F1. They don't have to be cold hard facts, just the big and little things that we are perceiving to point in favor of one over the other.

[anders]

Reminds me of when Ross did a pro/con list about Julie vs Rachel - lots of pros and cons for Rachel, but only 1 for Julie - she wasn't Rachem (not a typo - that was Chandler's typo).....sometimes it's not what's on the list, but the content of that list.

[Guest]

Reminds me of when Ross did a pro/con list about Julie vs Rachel - lots of pros and cons for Rachel, but only 1 for Julie - she wasn't Rachem (not a typo - that was Chandler's typo).....sometimes it's not what's on the list, but the content of that list.

Oooo Anders... I like this!!!

[cfck2222]

cfck2222, I think you should add under reasons why Ben isn't F1, if Ash and Ben actually had kissed earlier, as he said to JP (personally, I think Ben was just kidding), the fact that it wasn't shown would be unusual if he was F1).

Added, thanks!

Okay, I'll bite. On the only date where JP and Ben went head to head, Ben got the rose.

Added, thanks!

Watch list:

MTA outtakes - (they showed Jilli and Ed, Ali and Roberto)
HTD no goodbye with F1
References to the future by the lead and the F1 using approx same words?
Post-show stuff that will come out soon

Added, thanks!

Thanks cfck2222. So JP has 18 pro-F1, but Ben is building up to 11, although fijiman can't make up his mind. Looks like we are at least trying to get the scales balanced here. (Alas, everytime I add a rock onto Ben's, JP's gets another couple... I really WANT to see more balance here, but I'm afraid poor Benny has already been catapulted.)

This is exactly why the list thing is not gonna work. It is not a popularity contest, the only vote that counts is Ash's. She very well may choose JP, who knows.

I don't think the list was designed to be to see who's most popular, it's to list all the points that are being considered as "evidence" as to who could be F1. They don't have to be cold hard facts, just the big and little things that we are perceiving to point in favor of one over the other.

Yes that's what this is. This isn't a popularity contest or a contest of who has the the highest # of clues in favor or against. It's not that simple anyway because it isn't just 2 categories to prove why either guy is F1, there's 2 more categories about clues each guy is NOT F1. It's possible that as the show goes on we'll have a guy who's got the most clues pointing to him being F1 but ALSO the most clues pointing to him not being F1.

This list is supposed to be a quick reference. All clues are not created equal and everybody's weighing them differently. 1 person having 18 clues he might be F1 and the other having 14 doesn't necessarily mean the person with 18 clues is ahead but at the same time, it also doesn't necessarily mean it's close. I know what clues I'm putting more weight on and I also know others are putting more weight on other clues. For instance nd4reality posted that the 1 big clue is JP saying good things are ahead for Ashley but I don't put much weight on that at all, . I'm sure everybody thinks differently and that's what makes it more fun!

Thanks for all the help! I didn't bump the post forward because we don't need me posting the same long post over and over again on every page. The most current version's here: http://bachandbachettefans.forumotion.com/t141p400-bachelorette-7-general-discussion-spoilers#44769

[anders]

what I put most weight on was Ashley only telling JP about Bentley - that spoke volumes - that was almost equivalent to Brad telling Emily she would get a rose at the RC - Ash basically said she wanted to tell him because she wanted to move forward with him - not just move forward.

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