Re: Bachelorette 7 General Discussion - Thread #2

[Beeleever]

The thing is Ben is not the only person who has access to the twitter account his best friend I am sure has access to it too, and he could be the one who retweet it but talking here is not always seen as welcome if you are not on the JP side.

Reason, I think what is happening is a good debate. You point out your perspective and others point out theirs. At this time, there is an overwhelming majority of us that see JP as F1. It is what TPTB are showing us with the edit, what we see in post-show clues and what we see happening on our screens. I have watched JP and Ashley's footage with no sound on to ensure I am not being persuaded by VO's or romantic music. The magnetic attraction that I am seeing is in the way they touch, the way they kiss, but especially the way they look at each other.

I know it feels like your view is not welcome when people are not in agreement with you. I respectfully disagree. Most of us appreciate what you bring to the board, but we are still "seeing" something different. When someone posts an opposing view, it may feel like you are not "believed" or "respected". I am sorry if that's how you are feeling.

If I start truly seeing a change in the edit that favors Ben as F1, I will fully admit that I was totally Fleissed...again. It would not be the first time by a long shot.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I'm going to say it again. Each of us are unique individuals that bring who we are to what we post. I share my lens with you all, and in doing so, share a piece of who I am. Being right or wrong is not a factor in the equation when I post. Whether people agree with me or not, is also not a factor.

In the end, I will support Ashley's choice. It is hers, and only hers, to make. In the end, we will all go on with our daily lives. In the end, most of us will be back sharing who we are and what we see for the next season on this wonderful board...and for that, I am thankful!

[noobsleuth]

The thing is Ben is not the only person who has access to the twitter account his best friend I am sure has access to it too, and he could be the one who retweet it but talking here is not always seen as welcome if you are not on the JP side.

Reason, I think what is happening is a good debate. You point out your perspective and others point out theirs. At this time, there is an overwhelming majority of us that see JP as F1. It is what TPTB are showing us with the edit, what we see in post-show clues and what we see happening on our screens. I have watched JP and Ashley's footage with no sound on to ensure I am not being persuaded by VO's or romantic music. The magnetic attraction that I am seeing is in the way they touch, the way they kiss, but especially the way they look at each other.

I know it feels like your view is not welcome when people are not in agreement with you. I respectfully disagree. Most of us appreciate what you bring to the board, but we are still "seeing" something different. When someone posts an opposing view, it may feel like you are not "believed" or "respected". I am sorry if that's how you are feeling.

If I start truly seeing a change in the edit that favors Ben as F1, I will fully admit that I was totally Fleissed...again. It would not be the first time by a long shot.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I'm going to say it again. Each of us are unique individuals that bring who we are to what we post. I share my lens with you all, and in doing so, share a piece of who I am. Being right or wrong is not a factor in the equation when I post. Whether people agree with me or not, is also not a factor.

In the end, I will support Ashley's choice. It is hers, and only hers, to make. In the end, we will all go on with our daily lives. In the end, most of us will be back sharing who we are and what we see for the next season on this wonderful board...and for that, I am thankful!

Regarding the bolded esp: ITA!!! I am on the cupcake train because I love JP and how he looks at Ash. If it I am on it when it goes straight off of a cliff so be it. Someone with a Ben avatar has my permission to send me a PM with 1,000 "I told ya so's" ... Either way... I try not to make definite statements. None of us know for sure.

[Samantharose]

The thing is Ben is not the only person who has access to the twitter account his best friend I am sure has access to it too, and he could be the one who retweet it but talking here is not always seen as welcome if you are not on the JP side.

Reason, I think what is happening is a good debate. You point out your perspective and others point out theirs. At this time, there is an overwhelming majority of us that see JP as F1. It is what TPTB are showing us with the edit, what we see in post-show clues and what we see happening on our screens. I have watched JP and Ashley's footage with no sound on to ensure I am not being persuaded by VO's or romantic music. The magnetic attraction that I am seeing is in the way they touch, the way they kiss, but especially the way they look at each other.

I know it feels like your view is not welcome when people are not in agreement with you. I respectfully disagree. Most of us appreciate what you bring to the board, but we are still "seeing" something different. When someone posts an opposing view, it may feel like you are not "believed" or "respected". I am sorry if that's how you are feeling.

If I start truly seeing a change in the edit that favors Ben as F1, I will fully admit that I was totally Fleissed...again. It would not be the first time by a long shot.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I'm going to say it again. Each of us are unique individuals that bring who we are to what we post. I share my lens with you all, and in doing so, share a piece of who I am. Being right or wrong is not a factor in the equation when I post. Whether people agree with me or not, is also not a factor.

In the end, I will support Ashley's choice. It is hers, and only hers, to make. In the end, we will all go on with our daily lives. In the end, most of us will be back sharing who we are and what we see for the next season on this wonderful board...and for that, I am thankful!

Regarding the bolded esp: ITA!!! I am on the cupcake train because I love JP and how he looks at Ash. If it I am on it when it goes straight off of a cliff so be it. Someone with a Ben avatar has my permission to send me a PM with 1,000 "I told ya so's" ... Either way... I try not to make definite statements. None of us know for sure.

And I've been wrong so many season's I'm pretty good at eating crow. :Nod:

[Beeleever]

Samantha and Noobs, I can't tell you how many times in the history of this show I've eaten crow pie for dinner and humble pie for dessert! In fact, I've kind of developed a hankering for them both!

[Lucas15]

Why Ben is not F1:
1. His vlog after his 1-1 date was dull and lifeless. Does not show any enthusiasm for Ashley in the future unlike JP's vlog
.

An echo as to the importance of this observation. Ben's vblog had a very strong flavor of "they made me do this" and a bitter aftertaste of sour grapes to it. Ben talked only about the show as we had seen events up to the date of his blog - he did not mention anything about the future. He talked in almost a monotone.

JP's vblog was upbeat and enthusiastic and talked more about the future than the present. His vocal inflections emphasized certain thoughts - most notable his emphasis that he knows good things lie ahead for Ashley. How would he really know that there are good things ahead are unless he is a part of them?

The tweets from @evolvewines that contacted past show contestants were in fact deleted at one point in time - the same point in time that Ben's business partner's name was added to the account. But some are now back and they are more recent - including a direct one to Natalie Getz on Jul 8. While his business partner no doubt has access to the Twitter account his business partner would not be likely know past show contestants nor have any reason to be contacting them - I think these tweets are from Ben. If he was talked to before and cleaned it up then he's back at it again. If what Fijiman seems to suggest about the FRC is what actually happens I think Ben may harbor a certain resentment towards the show and the process and his experience with it. That would be consistent with both his vblog demeanor and his flaunting of the show's request with regard to social media.

[Alanna]

Lucas, ITA with you about Ben's vlog. I'm sure people will disagree and that's fine but I can't imagine that that man is in love and engaged to Ashley. On another note, I think it's ridiculously adorable and charming that JP pretty much considers himself a good thing that happens to her. LOL.

[BlondieGal]

Also, Blondiegal's source that JP is F1.

*note that this is not the source that gave me the correct F1's the last two seasons. I am still working on that source. 8)

[allykat]

Not sure if this has been added, and I don't have time to read through it all, but under pro Ben I would add Ashely H twitter pic which is from the dance date in Ep 2 and was also her first date with Ben and his team won. Could be a shout out to him.

[Cari]

to add another factor that may not point to JP as F1 for others but to me it is another point for JP as F1.

Ashley S responding here that she found it disrespectful particularly to Ashley H. (not sure if she specifically mentioned Ben ??) to be tweeting while the show is ongoing.

If Ben is F1 i think a friend/relative/family of the show's 'ette would probably not express her opinion esp a dislike (though she has the right ) on any social media 8)

[cfck2222]

Updated the list. Please keep the suggestions coming. Thanks!

Please note: the relevance of all these points is disputed. The accuracy of some points is disputed and noted if so. I added a bunch from the suggestions you all made.

Why JP is F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged.
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Blondiegal has a source who says JP is F1 but this is not the source that has given Blondiegal the last 2 F1s.
3: Physical chemistry with Ashley, which with Bachelorettes, usually means the F1 (Meredith, Jillian, Ali, only Trista could be considered the exception). [Thanks ironcat]
4: Ashley told JP about Bent's return privately and before she told any of the other guys including Lucas with whom she had a solo date and everybody else she had a group date with.
5: Ashley's People blog for Episode 6 says "Truth is the only way to build a real love. And in more ways than one, this episode marks the beginning of my beautiful, truthful, honest, genuine love story." Episode 6 was Ashley's 2nd 1-on-1 date with JP and Ben F wasn't featured that prominently in it.
6: ET Canada claimed to have photos of them leaving the same place in New York within hours. Those pictures never surfaced in the US and it hasn't been verified that they were actually in the same place. However they were both in New York that weekend (June 25th/26th). JP was photographed in the subway and Ashley H was there visiting Ashley S.
7: Ashley said "Bye JP, Bye everyone!" at the end of her 6/27 Jimmy Kimmel interview.
8: JP had solo date in episode 3, same as F1s Ed, Roberto, Ian, Ryan, Jerry, Emily. No F1 has ever had first solo date in episode 5. [Thanks ironcat]
9: JP defended Ashley in his vlog for Episode 6 telling everybody to keep in mind that there are stresses people on the show are under that people watching at home may not understand.
10: Shadow/sun analysis appears to place JP (based on jawline and lack of hair around collar) at the FRC later than Ben F (IDd by hands and watch). [Thanks to many sleuthers]
11: OK and In Touch both said JP's F1 but in negative stories saying the relationship is over or not going well. In Touch's story has a few of the same key words/storyline ("jerk"/wandering eye) as a story on Roberto that came out last year after he was revealed as Ali's F1.
12: Life & Style said Ashley is engaged and her F1 had had his heart broken before but is in the "best place he's ever been". Star quoted an unnamed friend of JP's saying he's in the "best place he's ever been".
13: West and Will both commented on Ashley's special connection with JP in their exit interviews. Will said "J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her I would pick J.P. I saw their interactions and the look on their faces when they got to be around each other, and it's that look two people have when they're really in love." Wes said ""I think based on my gut, just from seeing her interactions with people, I really thought that JP was going to be the one that she picked. They had this natural chemistry together. You could see whenever we were in a group together and he was there, she tended to gravitate towards him. There was just this easy kind of connection evident from them. I think he would make the best choice."
14: Not seen in New York when Ashley was in LA (she was spotted flying out to LA June 29th and back in Philadelphia airport July 5th). Spotted in New York July 6th.
15: Early in the season Ashley S was gushy about JP and Ashley H but made a crack about Ben F reminding her of the Geico caveman.
16: Chris H had a slip up in an interview when he was defending not telling Ash about Bentley. He said "should we tell Ali what Roberto said behind her back or should we tell Ashley what JP is saying" [thanks pattycake92]
17: In Ashley's 1st press conference after filming ending she said "Ashley Hebert: Yes, I mean I think what I realize is that I went into a thing I wanted just a good man and somebody who is loyal and a family man, and I think as time went on there were more things that I saw in the guys that I wanted but most importantly what I realize is that I wanted someone that made feel good and made me feel like a women, made me feel like I was able to be vulnerable. And so, yes, definitely as time went I started to realize more about what I wanted." She reiterated "I mean I am looking for somebody that I feel I can trust, like somebody that’s really loyal and a family man and I said that I go into it and I don’t know if I get them kind of being redundant here, but I just want somebody that makes me feel. I like my life off of my gut and intuition and I have learned to trust that and I think it has led me to some really great places. So I am just looking for somebody that makes me feel." In Ep 6 Ashley said the following about JP: "He’s such a loyal guy. He’s determined and he’s committed. He’s gonna be a great family man. He is the total package for me." and "I’m so comfortable around him, I feel secure, I feel relaxed, I feel like I don’t have a care in the world. It’s a good feeling, it really is a good feeling. I really feel like there may be somebody here for me." Ashley's 1st 1-on-1 date with JP involved her being tired and emotionally spent after Bent left and she said in the People blog JP was the best guy for that. [Thanks JBF]
18: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." Bent was presented as an early frontrunner and so was William along with JP. JP's been the only steady frontrunner up to this point. [Thanks JBF]

Why JP is not F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged (Fleissed again?)
2: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
3: Physical chemistry edit didn't bode well for F2 Kiptyn (Jillian) or F2 Chantal (Brad)
4: Too obvious, too early.
5: Both his dates have been paired with the Bent storyline.
6: He's the public's favorite right now and the public favorite often isn't F1 but instead is being courted to be the next Bachelor.

Why Ben is F1
1: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
2: Hidden
3: West mentioned Ben F as somebody who's good with Ashley: " As far as maybe another person who would be up here, probably Ben F. He's really easy to get along with and super funny. He's always so laid back no matter what the situation and I thought that was really cool."
4: In her Episode 4 blog (when Ben F got the group date rose at the orphanage) Ashley said "Looking back at this week, the most important lesson I took away is that the best type of love starts off with a slow burn, and eventually turns into something much brighter than a spark ever could."
5: CH included Ben F among guys confident enough in his relationship with Ashley that he didn't react negatively to her news about Bent coming to Hong Kong.
6: Ashley S's gotten more balanced in her live tweets since the show started and Ben F actually tweeted her back when she complained about his yellow sweater.
7: TheBachelor.TV keeps tweeting out behind the scenes pictures of Ashley and Ben F
8: Ashley's twitter profile picture is of her from the Ep 2 dance date which was a group date where Ben F and his team won. [Thanks allykat]
9: ABC's May 3rd press release described Ben F as a "handsome broken hearted winemaker" meaning he might fit Life & Style's description of Ashley's F1. [Thanks happyntexas]
10: In the season's 1st press conference Ashley said "So I would have to say one of my favorite group dates was, we are in Thailand and we actually renovated an orphanage and that was the most rewarding and probably the most exciting group dates that I went on. I mean it's something that I will remember for the rest of life." Ben F got the group date rose from that date and Ashley commented in her blog about how much he impressed and touched her during that date. [Thanks JBF]
11: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." JP was more of an early frontrunner than Ben F but this statement isn't that specific about when Ashley's frontrunners changed. [Thanks JBF]

Why Ben is not F1
1: Ben F was one of CH's 5 "Ones to Watch" which has never included F1 for B'ettes (only 1 F1 in the B/ette franchise was in there: Shayne during Matt's season) [Thanks ironcat]
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Tweeting "Hi. I'm writing back." in reply to Michelle Money. Tweet deleted. Also socially tweeting Jesse K/Natalie Getz and several other people in the Bachelor world. Those tweets also deleted. Ben F is allegedly not the only person with access to the evolvewines twitter account.
4: Jesse K said in Bachelorette Beatdown that he'd seen Ben F and he was sure Ben F was not F1. But he did not say why so we don't know if he just saw Ben F or saw him do something that would make it unlikely he's F1.
5: So hidden people see more of his bromance with Dino than his connection with Ashley.
6: Allegedly seen 3 or 4 times out in San Francisco area during July 4th weekend when Ashley had flown to LA to sit down with CH but also possibly spend a safehouse weekend with her F1. [Fill in actual tweets]
7: Ben retweeted a link to a snarky blog (lost angeles) that included Ashley in its equal opportunity snark. But he is allegedly not the only one with access to the evolvewines twitter account. [Thanks Alanna]
8: Ben's vlog after his 1st 1-on-1 date was arguably dry and flat compared to JP's.
9: Ashley S. posted: "Honestly, I'm surprised about the tweeting as well. As soon as we were found out, they shut us down. However, I think it is in very poor taste for my season's girls or Ash's guys to tweet to each other about meeting up. I think they could wait 5 more weeks or use DM on twitter to at least be a little more discreet. That's uber-disrespectful to Ash and the show." -- posted on Tweets/Facebook Updates - Discussion - Spoilers by AshleyS on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am [Thanks Cari]

Links to People's B'ette coverage including Ashley's blogs: http://www.people.com/people/news/category/0,,MediaProductsTax:TVTheBacheloretteSeries_2,00.html

Ashley's press conference May 19th: (thanks JBF)
http://www.abcmedianet.com/assets/pr%5Chtml/051911_05.html

[Cari]

here it is, cfck! :

Honestly, I'm surprised about the tweeting as well. As soon as we were found out, they shut us down. However, I think it is in very poor taste for my season's girls or Ash's guys to tweet to each other about meeting up. I think they could wait 5 more weeks or use DM on twitter to at least be a little more discreet. That's uber-disrespectful to Ash and the show.

-- posted on Tweets/Facebook Updates - Discussion - Spoilers by AshleyS on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am

[DMBFan]

Wow, cfck! Great job!

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