Re: Episode 12 - 7/22 - Bachelorette 8 - ATFR (Live) - Discussion

by tigertiz Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:36 am

Do you really think that Arie would have preferred for Emily to have read his journal, knowing that it wouldn't have changed her mind?

Yes I do. I will quote my friend MiaHawk, who explained it much better than I could.

Nothing I saw between Emily and Jef came even remotely close to what she and Arie shared. Yes, Arie & Em had crazy levels of passion, but they also had fun, talked about life (which most was left on the cutting room floor), and even admitted tonight that they'd made plans for the future. She led him on - you're the light at the end of the tunnel, I was done, I am so happy, If things keep going this way, nothing would make me happier, (and of course, whatever happened in the fantasy suite that they are not showing). Just so wrong to do that to the ONE person who fully trusted in you (to see through Ryan) and who was confident in your relationship the entire time.

My heart breaks for Arie, mostly because of how open, honest and vulnerable he was. Jef was playing games and making sure she would chase him too. That is not true love, that is 9th grade dating, IMO. If you love someone, you show them, no matter what you think their reaction might be. You give, love, share openly without worrying about what they might reciprocate. Arie did that all season long, and Jef held back and was never certain. Even up 'til the MTP and last date, he was still talking about IF. There is no IF in true love. You commit to it and you make it happen, simple as that.

My biggest hope out of all of this is that Arie will not change and will not close himself off. It is SO rare to find someone like him who is willing to put it all out there, to wear their heart on their sleeve, without fear of being hurt. He FOUGHT for her, he flew to her to try to make it right, even offering even more of his heart (his journal). What girl wouldn't want a man who was as open as he was, willing to love at all cost, and even willing to get shot down a second time? He is such a class act, such a gentleman, and such a rare find. I can't believe how the journal was handled. That was harsh and there was no reason for it to be. I'm guessing that Emily needed to bluntly shut him down and defend Jef because all season long, it's been apparent how much she loved Arie, even to Jef. I think it was her one and only opportunity to prove to Jef that she loves him as much. I can't say she loves him more, because I don't think she does. She didn't even say so. All she could muster was that she was more confident in the long term. She knew with Jef and his family values, if she could get married to him, he would never leave. I truly think she was afraid that she wasn't good enough for Arie, and now I have to believe she was right.

by Piper61 Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:40 am

ironcat wrote:
tigertiz wrote:Could Arie be any more gracious and kind? Nope. He wrote the book. What an amazing man. I'm still speechless.

As to Emily's choice? I still only saw one love story this season. She didnt trust herself to take Arie to the Fantasy suite and she didnt trust herself (AFTER becoming engaged and spending who knows how many days and nights with her fiance) to even grant Arie the courtesy of reading his journal. To grant him the honor of knowing he had been heard.

She was still in love with Arie, even then. Even after she walked off into the sunset with Jef.

But Emily knows that love doesnt last. Planes can fall from the sky.
So she chosen the only kind of security that you can count on - phenomenal wealth.

Jef made her future bank balance feel secure. Therefore she feels secure. Good luck Emily and good luck Jef. Money cant buy love and money cant buy happiness.

Do you really think that Arie would have preferred for Emily to have read his journal, knowing that it wouldn't have changed her mind? I personally suspect that he was grateful that she didn't; I know I would have been had I been in his shoes. No need for him to feel any more vulnerable than he already did with a woman who didn't want him.

Yep, she was over Arie before he even sent the journal, and there was no need to read his personal thoughts about the journey if it was going to have no affect on the outcome whatsoever. It would have been disrespectful of her feelings for Jef, too. Emily had no lingering feelings other than guilt about hurting Arie and not giving him better closure. Arie had the lingering feelings of love and confusion as to what happened. Understandable, but the journal would have changed nothing.

by nuts2uiam Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:44 am

[quote="ironcat"]

tigertiz wrote:Could Arie be any more gracious and kind? Nope. He wrote the book. What an amazing man. I'm still speechless.

As to Emily's choice? I still only saw one love story this season. She didn't trust herself to take Arie to the Fantasy suite and she didn't trust herself (AFTER becoming engaged and spending who knows how many days and nights with her fiance) to even grant Arie the courtesy of reading his journal. To grant him the honor of knowing he had been heard.

She was still in love with Arie, even then. Even after she walked off into the sunset with Jef.

But Emily knows that love doesn't last. Planes can fall from the sky.
So she chosen the only kind of security that you can count on - phenomenal wealth.

Jef made her future bank balance feel secure. Therefore she feels secure. Good luck Emily and good luck Jef. Money cant buy love and money cant buy happiness.

It is funny the way people can "see" the same things so differently. I have more respect for her that she didn't read it. It no doubt would be a great ego boost to read someone professing his innermost feelings for you. The fact that she both respected his feelings and no doubt wanted to spare the both of them any additional pain to me is admirable. To me Aria had the physical connection from day one but Jef and the emotional connection from day one. I actually picked him opening night because I see Emily as a woman who had been forced to grow up quickly at a very young age. Jef came in bouncing off a skateboard and just wowed her. In retrospect, I think she felt the rush of physical connection to Ari that seemingly was missing with Jef and she was in "love" with that "love of Ari" but the rest was missing. Whereas with Jef he was slow to the PDA and almost childlike in his ways bbit he finally got there and was the whole package. If what we are seeing is the truth and to a certain degree I believe it is, then Jef not only can be a kid and provide the fun missing in her life but also a very mature and guiding force for them.

On a totally different subject. When this started out all I could see was Jef as the Tom Hanks part in the movie "Big" LOL Too cute.

by Piper61 Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:44 am

tigertiz wrote:
Do you really think that Arie would have preferred for Emily to have read his journal, knowing that it wouldn't have changed her mind?
Yes I do. I will quote my friend MiaHawk, who explained it much better than I could.

Nothing I saw between Emily and Jef came even remotely close to what she and Arie shared. Yes, Arie & Em had crazy levels of passion, but they also had fun, talked about life (which most was left on the cutting room floor), and even admitted tonight that they'd made plans for the future. She led him on - you're the light at the end of the tunnel, I was done, I am so happy, If things keep going this way, nothing would make me happier, (and of course, whatever happened in the fantasy suite that they are not showing). Just so wrong to do that to the ONE person who fully trusted in you (to see through Ryan) and who was confident in your relationship the entire time.

My heart breaks for Arie, mostly because of how open, honest and vulnerable he was. Jef was playing games and making sure she would chase him too. That is not true love, that is 9th grade dating, IMO. If you love someone, you show them, no matter what you think their reaction might be. You give, love, share openly without worrying about what they might reciprocate. Arie did that all season long, and Jef held back and was never certain. Even up 'til the MTP and last date, he was still talking about IF. There is no IF in true love. You commit to it and you make it happen, simple as that.

My biggest hope out of all of this is that Arie will not change and will not close himself off. It is SO rare to find someone like him who is willing to put it all out there, to wear their heart on their sleeve, without fear of being hurt. He FOUGHT for her, he flew to her to try to make it right, even offering even more of his heart (his journal). What girl wouldn't want a man who was as open as he was, willing to love at all cost, and even willing to get shot down a second time? He is such a class act, such a gentleman, and such a rare find. I can't believe how the journal was handled. That was harsh and there was no reason for it to be. I'm guessing that Emily needed to bluntly shut him down and defend Jef because all season long, it's been apparent how much she loved Arie, even to Jef. I think it was her one and only opportunity to prove to Jef that she loves him as much. I can't say she loves him more, because I don't think she does. She didn't even say so. All she could muster was that she was more confident in the long term. She knew with Jef and his family values, if she could get married to him, he would never leave. I truly think she was afraid that she wasn't good enough for Arie, and now I have to believe she was right.

I personally don't think Arie is any better than Jef or vice versa. They are both great guys! Emily and Jef are the best fit for each other because she chose him, plain and simple, and he chose her because he didn't fall right in line with the other guys from the start. Others may not believe it, but as long as Emily believes they are soulmates, that's all that matters. And Jef has the best friend and the forever love he wanted in a spouse with Emily.

by lawla Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:05 pm

Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

by tigertiz Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:15 pm

Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning.

Still commenting on other posters who are talking about the contestants? Apparently the 945 requests from Love Me and san mean nothing to some of you.

Please remember that opinions good and bad are welcome here when they are about contestants, the lead, etc. and disagreeing respectfully is acceptable. What is not acceptable is bashing other posters for their opinions. If you don't like what someone else has to say, skip over it or foe them. Thanks!

by skitts Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:16 pm

lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

I do agree that she does fit into Jef's life better or can I say, Jef offers more stability to 'her life'!!!! This is the thing...it's always about what the others have to offer her. He makes 'me' laugh...he gets 'me'...he gives 'me' more confidence! What does she have to offer 1F? What does she bring to the relationship? I say she fits better with Jef based on his family and little Ricki....well, he's moving to Charlotte to fit 'her' life...may change...but at the present, concessions are being made for Emily, once again! What happen to Diana's comments on her moving to Utah after the mission trip and looking into private schools! Check out the GMA video of them...either Jef is way shy or extremely tired but Emily carried the show and he looked subdued! :yes:

by mnmhughes Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:20 pm

skitts wrote:
lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

I do agree that she does fit into Jef's life better or can I say, Jef offers more stability to 'her life'!!!! This is the thing...it's always about what the others have to offer her. He makes 'me' laugh...he gets 'me'...he gives 'me' more confidence! What does she have to offer 1F? What does she bring to the relationship? I say she fits better with Jef based on his family and little Ricki....well, he's moving to Charlotte to fit 'her' life...may change...but at the present, concessions are being made for Emily, once again! What happen to Diana's comments on her moving to Utah after the mission trip and looking into private schools! Check out the GMA video of them...either Jef is way shy or extremely tired but Emily carried the show and he looked subdued!

They were still doing interviews past midnight last night, then had to be up by 3 for the GMA interview. If I had that little sleep, I would be lucky for someone to refer to me as "subdued." I have no idea how Emily looked so beautiful!! giggling

by mnmhughes Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:21 pm

lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

So glad you're back, lawla! :thismuch:

by Piper61 Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:22 pm

mnmhughes wrote:
skitts wrote:
lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

I do agree that she does fit into Jef's life better or can I say, Jef offers more stability to 'her life'!!!! This is the thing...it's always about what the others have to offer her. He makes 'me' laugh...he gets 'me'...he gives 'me' more confidence! What does she have to offer 1F? What does she bring to the relationship? I say she fits better with Jef based on his family and little Ricki....well, he's moving to Charlotte to fit 'her' life...may change...but at the present, concessions are being made for Emily, once again! What happen to Diana's comments on her moving to Utah after the mission trip and looking into private schools! Check out the GMA video of them...either Jef is way shy or extremely tired but Emily carried the show and he looked subdued!

They were still doing interviews past midnight last night, then had to be up by 3 for the GMA interview. If I had that little sleep, I would be lucky for someone to refer to me as "subdued." I have no idea how Emily looked so beautiful!!

Yes! And Emily was the lead of the show. Questions were directed at her, but Jef had his questions and say as well.

by skitts Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:24 pm

Piper61 wrote:
mnmhughes wrote:
skitts wrote:
lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

I do agree that she does fit into Jef's life better or can I say, Jef offers more stability to 'her life'!!!! This is the thing...it's always about what the others have to offer her. He makes 'me' laugh...he gets 'me'...he gives 'me' more confidence! What does she have to offer 1F? What does she bring to the relationship? I say she fits better with Jef based on his family and little Ricki....well, he's moving to Charlotte to fit 'her' life...may change...but at the present, concessions are being made for Emily, once again! What happen to Diana's comments on her moving to Utah after the mission trip and looking into private schools! Check out the GMA video of them...either Jef is way shy or extremely tired but Emily carried the show and he looked subdued!

They were still doing interviews past midnight last night, then had to be up by 3 for the GMA interview. If I had that little sleep, I would be lucky for someone to refer to me as "subdued." I have no idea how Emily looked so beautiful!!
Yes! And Emily was the lead of the show. Questions were directed at her, but Jef had his questions and say as well.

Sorry...he did not look like an exuberant, besotted fiance!

by Piper61 Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:29 pm

skitts wrote:
Piper61 wrote:
mnmhughes wrote:
skitts wrote:
lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

I do agree that she does fit into Jef's life better or can I say, Jef offers more stability to 'her life'!!!! This is the thing...it's always about what the others have to offer her. He makes 'me' laugh...he gets 'me'...he gives 'me' more confidence! What does she have to offer 1F? What does she bring to the relationship? I say she fits better with Jef based on his family and little Ricki....well, he's moving to Charlotte to fit 'her' life...may change...but at the present, concessions are being made for Emily, once again! What happen to Diana's comments on her moving to Utah after the mission trip and looking into private schools! Check out the GMA video of them...either Jef is way shy or extremely tired but Emily carried the show and he looked subdued!

They were still doing interviews past midnight last night, then had to be up by 3 for the GMA interview. If I had that little sleep, I would be lucky for someone to refer to me as "subdued." I have no idea how Emily looked so beautiful!!
Yes! And Emily was the lead of the show. Questions were directed at her, but Jef had his questions and say as well.

Sorry...he did not look like an exuberant, besotted fiance!

My mileage varies because he looked plenty besotted last night and this morning to me. I see nothing but happiness in his (possibly tired) eyes, and hers as well. It's all good.

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