Re: VO & PI's - Discussion - Bachelorette 8 - Thread #1

[Iluvbachette]

I know people think Emily has alot of explaining to do with Jef about her kissing and words said to the other guys. This is so outta there every season. No she doesn't have any explaining to do to her guy. They all went on the show to find love. They know she will be kissing other guys. If they get jealous and can't deal with it, then they shouldn't of applied to be on the show. The bottom line is, her F1 will be her F1 forever. This is only how they met.

[Iluvbachette]

I think next weeks previews all pertain to Arie. In the stripped dress she is talking to her family. Mom, dad, brother and ? other lady. When her mom says she something like she doesn't want to see a proposal that is when they are talking about Arie. When Emily is talking to CH about this is what you want to do. (not per word). I believe this is when she tells CH she wants to tell Arie she won't be picking him.

I don't think anything in the preview screams Jef at me.

[ScrappyRN]

In the PI of Emily talking about getting the chills when Jef told her he loved her, Emily says loves, as in present tense not past. I automatically thought that PI was done post FRC and because Jef is still saying he loves her and when she spoke of not being able to say it back, I can totally hear her say, but now I can say it.

[ILoveCase]

Arie’s Fantasy Date


Section 1 (Things Emily says that are not seen and could have been said about anybody and/or at any time during filming)


And since then my feelings have grown a lot stronger

He makes me feel so comfortable so I’m just so excited to, like, see him and hang out

I’m ready to just have a whole day to focus on him

One thing really cool

Dolphins are not that scary

Just kind of, like, shows me that he

It’s no secret that

Is so strong

But now that I’m at this point and I do feel myself falling in love

That he gets it, and he gets it more than I ever gave him credit for to be honest

Tonight is the fantasy suite overnight date

It’s a total inner struggle for me because he’s so good looking. When I’m around him I want to be just touching him and being with him but as a role model and as a mother, I just can’t

At the end of the day, I don’t trust myself, I wouldn’t let myself go there but

But there are 3 guys here and I’m gonna pick one and that means that my relationship with the other 2 is going to be over.

And that’s the problem


Section 2 (Things that we do not see Emily say but in which she identifies Arie by name and could have been said at any time during the filming process)

My connection with Arie was literally almost immediate

So many things that I just like so much about Arie

Arie is so protective over me, it’s really sweet

Everytime I see Arie, first thing we do is kiss, and if we stop talking, its to kiss, and kiss and kiss

Tonight is the fantasy suite

And it’s going to be really hard not to have the overnight date with Arie, just because I love kissing him[/b]

Arie and I, we have had such a great day

I always have fun with Arie

From our very first date, Arie has never been just my friend

I am interested to see how arie would be with Ricki

Arie is so good looking

I would love nothing more than to be able to sit with Arie and just enjoy him, and like, enjoy the moment


Section 3 (Things we see Emily say while dressed in the clothes from her date with Arie)


That you can do in Curacao is go swimming with dolphins, like, in the middle of the ocean

But it scared me

Arie is not scared of anything

Would be a great dad

I just love kissing Arie, I mean

Because it’s that good

Just the physical chemistry we have

We’ve always been, like, holding hands and touching even before our first kiss

I really want to try to figure out if there’s more to my connection with Arie other than just chemistry

The way he thinks you gain a child’s trust made so much sense to me and it showed me that he’s really thought about it

Arie doesn’t just tell me he likes me, he shows me that

I mean

I’m gonna just not give him the fantasy suite card

Good lord he’s hot

It makes me really sad because I’ve had the time of my life


Note: We also see her say "And that makes me sad because they all really have formed a place in my heart and I’m not ready to let that go yet" in which she references all three guys.

The bolded is what confused me at first watch where I thought she was saying it about Arie. It was after watching it again that I realized that it was one of those comments not tied to any names and could have been said about any of them. Fleiss is so tricky. He made the casual un-spoiled viewer totally believe that Arie was picked when she may not have even said that in the moment. It could have been said later when she was grapling with whether to send Sean or Arie home.

[Bananaloaf]

Arie’s Fantasy Date


Section 1 (Things Emily says that are not seen and could have been said about anybody and/or at any time during filming)


And since then my feelings have grown a lot stronger

He makes me feel so comfortable so I’m just so excited to, like, see him and hang out

I’m ready to just have a whole day to focus on him

One thing really cool

Dolphins are not that scary

Just kind of, like, shows me that he

It’s no secret that

Is so strong

But now that I’m at this point and I do feel myself falling in love

That he gets it, and he gets it more than I ever gave him credit for to be honest

Tonight is the fantasy suite overnight date

It’s a total inner struggle for me because he’s so good looking. When I’m around him I want to be just touching him and being with him but as a role model and as a mother, I just can’t

At the end of the day, I don’t trust myself, I wouldn’t let myself go there but

But there are 3 guys here and I’m gonna pick one and that means that my relationship with the other 2 is going to be over.

And that’s the problem


Section 2 (Things that we do not see Emily say but in which she identifies Arie by name and could have been said at any time during the filming process)

My connection with Arie was literally almost immediate

So many things that I just like so much about Arie

Arie is so protective over me, it’s really sweet

Everytime I see Arie, first thing we do is kiss, and if we stop talking, its to kiss, and kiss and kiss

Tonight is the fantasy suite

And it’s going to be really hard not to have the overnight date with Arie, just because I love kissing him[/b]

Arie and I, we have had such a great day

I always have fun with Arie

From our very first date, Arie has never been just my friend

I am interested to see how arie would be with Ricki

Arie is so good looking

I would love nothing more than to be able to sit with Arie and just enjoy him, and like, enjoy the moment


Section 3 (Things we see Emily say while dressed in the clothes from her date with Arie)


That you can do in Curacao is go swimming with dolphins, like, in the middle of the ocean

But it scared me

Arie is not scared of anything

Would be a great dad

I just love kissing Arie, I mean

Because it’s that good

Just the physical chemistry we have

We’ve always been, like, holding hands and touching even before our first kiss

I really want to try to figure out if there’s more to my connection with Arie other than just chemistry

The way he thinks you gain a child’s trust made so much sense to me and it showed me that he’s really thought about it

Arie doesn’t just tell me he likes me, he shows me that

I mean

I’m gonna just not give him the fantasy suite card

Good lord he’s hot

It makes me really sad because I’ve had the time of my life


Note: We also see her say "And that makes me sad because they all really have formed a place in my heart and I’m not ready to let that go yet" in which she references all three guys.

The bolded is what confused me at first watch where I thought she was saying it about Arie. It was after watching it again that I realized that it was one of those comments not tied to any names and could have been said about any of them. Fleiss is so tricky. He made the casual un-spoiled viewer totally believe that Arie was picked when she may not have even said that in the moment. It could have been said later when she was grapling with whether to send Sean or Arie home.

Confused me too. I put more weight on what I actually see her say, but with the last bolded line I didn't think it made it look good for Arie at all. But, I'm spoiled, so that could be why. I was just overly confused by the whole episode as there were really few v/o's and p/i's from Em during her date with Jef and they really didn't have a lot of substance to them. Thought it was weird given the spoiler, but I've been around long enough to know that it's probably my theory about v/o's and p/i's that's wrong and not the spoiler. That said, my theory has been right before and most notably in Ali's season. :greenman:

[JBF]

What was your theory again, Bananaloaf? You are probably correct in your gut feelings about these PIs and VOs, but there may just be more to the story... complicating matters.

Mentioned this a few times before...

Her relationship with Arie is... odd. He is almost like a nurse (i.e. Romeo & Juliet performance) and she the patient ("I sound like I'm on my death bed" is something she voice-overs when hugging Arie before doing the Shakespeare play). My guess is that she needs him for some quirky therapy reason or another. I don't want to bring up The Ghost again, but it is a fact that BOTH Arie and Emily have brought up Rick-Y twice on their dates together. In Dollywood, she point blank told us in voice-over that Arie reminds her the most of Rick-Y. He himself stated TWICE in episode one that he may bring back painful memories for her. THEY are bringing Rick-Y up, not lil' ol' me, the TV armchair analyst.

Then again, we all realize how scripted this season is. Emily may have long been ready to "move on", but she still has some "residue" to get over and maybe also needed that extra "excuse" for her final one, Jef, so that he can deal with her getting rather physical (minus the overnight) with another guy. I seriously doubt Sean is any real concern for Jef watching since his occasional open mouthed kisses are more fleeting. Arie however has lips made of velcro and even Reality Steve half hinted that the purpose of the dolphin was to make he and Emily temporarily stop.

It does feel like they wanted a race car driver to make final two "dumpee" status regardless whether it was Arie or any other guy handpicked from the tracks, just so that Emily can say on screen to viewers... and Jef (if it even matters to him like it does Drama Soap Tycoon Mike Fleiss)... that he is her "light at the end of the tunnel". The fact that line was heard in the promo and then cut from the actual show suggests that they were going to bring HIM up again with Arie but decided not to late in editing.

Either that or Jef's line regarding time and pretending each date is your last replaced that line... in an oddball Fleissian Metaphor Way.

Think of it like Tom Hanks talking to his phantom wife in SLEEPLESS IN SEATTLE before his bratty kid gets him all the way to the Empire State to bump into Meg Ryan (despite her feeble attempt earlier). We really did not hear Tom Hanks talk much about her after he had that silly phone therapy session. Guess they didn't succeed with Jason Mesnick playing Tom Hanks, so they are just micro-waving some left-overs from that movie storyline this time around. Jason had the cute son and the location right, Seattle (where Ryan Sutter and Trista had their Fantasy date, by the way... and where "sleepless" Doug is from, also with a kid). Brad got all of the phone talk with his therapist those first two episodes or so, not with a radio host. He also got to play "therapist" with Emily on the NASCAR date and was still bellyaching that "her ex is STILL at the forefront of her mind". Sooo... I guess Emily is getting one more storyboard element from that movie Mike Fleiss has probably watched fifty times. That and TITANIC (only with Sean and Arie being "top of the world" not "king of the world")... another film, by the way, they promoted in 3-D during a "Meet Emily the New Bachelorette" sequence during Ben's season... just like BRAVE.

Regardless of Emily just suggesting she likes three guys at once, this line has multiple meanings here: "And that makes me sad because they all really have formed a place in my heart and I’m not ready to let that go yet". Remove the last phrase from the rest and you get "I'm not ready to let THAT go yet". "That" may be any number of things... feelings for Sean, feelings for Arie, feelings for Chris Harrison who can't stop oggling her in their sit-downs or... *gasp*... even Rick-Y, whether they are genuine "unfinished" feelings or simply scripted-for-the-screen-by-Fleiss who still wants to milk the Emily Story as long as he can. Even Dolly Parton "knows your story"... and she chirps this to Emily during Arie's date no-less.

[HowSoonIsNow]

What was your theory again, Bananaloaf? You are probably correct in your gut feelings about these PIs and VOs, but there may just be more to the story... complicating matters.

Mentioned this a few times before...

Her relationship with Arie is... odd. He is almost like a nurse (i.e. Romeo & Juliet performance) and she the patient ("I sound like I'm on my death bed" is something she voice-overs when hugging Arie before doing the Shakespeare play). My guess is that she needs him for some quirky therapy reason or another. I don't want to bring up The Ghost again, but it is a fact that BOTH Arie and Emily have brought up Rick-Y twice on their dates together. In Dollywood, she point blank told us in voice-over that Arie reminds her the most of Rick-Y. He himself stated TWICE in episode one that he may bring back painful memories for her. THEY are bringing Rick-Y up, not lil' ol' me, the TV armchair analyst.

Then again, we all realize how scripted this season is. Emily may have long been ready to "move on", but she still has some "residue" to get over and maybe also needed that extra "excuse" for her final one, Jef, so that he can deal with her getting rather physical (minus the overnight) with another guy. I seriously doubt Sean is any real concern for Jef watching since his occasional open mouthed kisses are more fleeting. Arie however has lips made of velcro and even Reality Steve half hinted that the purpose of the dolphin was to make he and Emily temporarily stop.

It does feel like they wanted a race car driver to make final two "dumpee" status regardless whether it was Arie or any other guy handpicked from the tracks, just so that Emily can say on screen to viewers... and Jef (if it even matters to him like it does Drama Soap Tycoon Mike Fleiss)... that he is her "light at the end of the tunnel". The fact that line was heard in the promo and then cut from the actual show suggests that they were going to bring HIM up again with Arie but decided not to late in editing.

Either that or Jef's line regarding time and pretending each date is your last replaced that line... in an oddball Fleissian Metaphor Way.

Think of it like Tom Hanks talking to his phantom wife in SLEEPLESS IN SEATTLE before his bratty kid gets him all the way to the Empire State to bump into Meg Ryan (despite her feeble attempt earlier). We really did not hear Tom Hanks talk much about her after he had that silly phone therapy session. Guess they didn't succeed with Jason Mesnick playing Tom Hanks, so they are just micro-waving some left-overs from that movie storyline this time around. Jason had the cute son and the location right, Seattle (where Ryan Sutter and Trista had their Fantasy date, by the way... and where "sleepless" Doug is from, also with a kid). Brad got all of the phone talk with his therapist those first two episodes or so, not with a radio host. He also got to play "therapist" with Emily on the NASCAR date and was still bellyaching that "her ex is STILL at the forefront of her mind". Sooo... I guess Emily is getting one more storyboard element from that movie Mike Fleiss has probably watched fifty times. That and TITANIC (only with Sean and Arie being "top of the world" not "king of the world")... another film, by the way, they promoted in 3-D during a "Meet Emily the New Bachelorette" sequence during Ben's season... just like BRAVE.

Regardless of Emily just suggesting she likes three guys at once, this line has multiple meanings here: "And that makes me sad because they all really have formed a place in my heart and I’m not ready to let that go yet". Remove the last phrase from the rest and you get "I'm not ready to let THAT go yet". "That" may be any number of things... feelings for Sean, feelings for Arie, feelings for Chris Harrison who can't stop oggling her in their sit-downs or... *gasp*... even Rick-Y, whether they are genuine "unfinished" feelings or simply scripted-for-the-screen-by-Fleiss who still wants to milk the Emily Story as long as he can. Even Dolly Parton "knows your story"... and she chirps this to Emily during Arie's date no-less.

Wow, JBF, from all of your movie talk (Ghost, Titanic, Sleepless, etc), I just had an epiphany about what movie this season of Bachette might really be based on. And given MFleiss's age (just looked it up online, he's born in '64), this movie might well be part of his oeuvre of film-knowledge. In the late 70s was a Brazilian blockbuster called "Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands" - it starred Sonia Braga and was considered the movie that introduced her to US/Europe, since the movie was a big art-house hit here. Then in the early 80s, Hollywood put out its remake of this movie, called "Kiss Me Goodbye", starring Sally Fields, James Caan, and a young Jeff Bridges. (Haha, just the title of the movie lets you know where I'm going with this!) I was a big fan of this movie, even renting it on brand new VHS technology (woo hoo!) the minute it got released to the brand-new Blockbuster store down the street. It was a sleeper word-of-mouth hit, pre-dates Ghost by ~10 years, but is more an emotional melancholic romantic comedy, rather than the somber funeral dirge that Ghost was.

The similarities between this movie and this season could not be more pronounced. Since I can't remember the character names, I'll use the actors' names in this comparison. The plot goes like this: before the movie begins, Sally was married to James, a famous, charismatic-with-an-edge, people-person, well-liked broadway producer/director/whatever, she was crazy about him and idealized/worshipped him and their marriage, but unfortunately he accidentally died by falling down the stairs of their home while they are entertaining guests. The movie begins 3-5 years after his death, and Sally is close to marrying Jeff (with 2 Fs), an introverted, introspective scholarly type (maybe a professor?), calm & well-liked but very unassuming and understated (perhaps underestimated? LOL). He adores Sally and is very supportive of her through her grief, but somehow Sally is getting cold feet and remembering how exciting James was. All of a sudden, James returns to her as the Ghost of James. This ghost charms her, she falls for him, and they essentially embark on an emotional love affair (unlike in the movie Ghost, they never have physical contact, let alone consummate the affair). She's very happy in this delusional romantic state, even the little arguments they get into don't bother her, as they communicate well through them (sound like Arie-Em?). But she's worried that TIME's running out - how long can she have ghost James in her life? and her wedding is around the corner! But Sally's friends are worried if she'll ever free herself from the grasp of the idealized ghost. So one of Sally's friends steps forward (Cassie L, anyone?) to tell her that she had once had a brief affair with James at the start of Sally-James marriage. This, along with Sally's mom reminding her of how difficult James could be, only thinking about himself (ala Kalon baggage comment) - maybe Em's mom will talk next week about warning flags she's sensing from Arie? Remains to be seen. Well, this all gets Sally to realize that James was, after all, just a mere mortal, and everything with them wasn't perfect. Thus, as she let's the pedestal crumble, she's able to let the ghost go as well. When Sally confronts James, he says he had come to heal her, help her get past him, and now that she's ready, he says "kiss me goodbye", and the ghost James walks away from Sally's life forever. The last remnant of grasp on Emily's psyche is gone, freeing her to move on into her future with Jeff.

This season of The Bachelorette, the remake of Kiss Me Goodbye, starring:
Emily as Sally Fields
RickY as pre-death James Caan
Arie as the Ghost of James Caan
1F-Jef as 2F-Jeff Bridges

Other plot points of interest: the movie starts with Sally & Jeff moving into the home that Sally & James had shared (Em lives in a Hendricks home, and this season of Bachelorette starts with her at this home instead of the mansion in LA they usually use). I think there was a kid in the picture, a son ~11 years old, but don't quote me on that.

Anyways, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it! ;)

[Bananaloaf]

What was your theory again, Bananaloaf? You are probably correct in your gut feelings about these PIs and VOs, but there may just be more to the story... complicating matters.

Mentioned this a few times before...

Her relationship with Arie is... odd. He is almost like a nurse (i.e. Romeo & Juliet performance) and she the patient ("I sound like I'm on my death bed" is something she voice-overs when hugging Arie before doing the Shakespeare play). My guess is that she needs him for some quirky therapy reason or another. I don't want to bring up The Ghost again, but it is a fact that BOTH Arie and Emily have brought up Rick-Y twice on their dates together. In Dollywood, she point blank told us in voice-over that Arie reminds her the most of Rick-Y. He himself stated TWICE in episode one that he may bring back painful memories for her. THEY are bringing Rick-Y up, not lil' ol' me, the TV armchair analyst.

Then again, we all realize how scripted this season is. Emily may have long been ready to "move on", but she still has some "residue" to get over and maybe also needed that extra "excuse" for her final one, Jef, so that he can deal with her getting rather physical (minus the overnight) with another guy. I seriously doubt Sean is any real concern for Jef watching since his occasional open mouthed kisses are more fleeting. Arie however has lips made of velcro and even Reality Steve half hinted that the purpose of the dolphin was to make he and Emily temporarily stop.

It does feel like they wanted a race car driver to make final two "dumpee" status regardless whether it was Arie or any other guy handpicked from the tracks, just so that Emily can say on screen to viewers... and Jef (if it even matters to him like it does Drama Soap Tycoon Mike Fleiss)... that he is her "light at the end of the tunnel". The fact that line was heard in the promo and then cut from the actual show suggests that they were going to bring HIM up again with Arie but decided not to late in editing.

Either that or Jef's line regarding time and pretending each date is your last replaced that line... in an oddball Fleissian Metaphor Way.

Think of it like Tom Hanks talking to his phantom wife in SLEEPLESS IN SEATTLE before his bratty kid gets him all the way to the Empire State to bump into Meg Ryan (despite her feeble attempt earlier). We really did not hear Tom Hanks talk much about her after he had that silly phone therapy session. Guess they didn't succeed with Jason Mesnick playing Tom Hanks, so they are just micro-waving some left-overs from that movie storyline this time around. Jason had the cute son and the location right, Seattle (where Ryan Sutter and Trista had their Fantasy date, by the way... and where "sleepless" Doug is from, also with a kid). Brad got all of the phone talk with his therapist those first two episodes or so, not with a radio host. He also got to play "therapist" with Emily on the NASCAR date and was still bellyaching that "her ex is STILL at the forefront of her mind". Sooo... I guess Emily is getting one more storyboard element from that movie Mike Fleiss has probably watched fifty times. That and TITANIC (only with Sean and Arie being "top of the world" not "king of the world")... another film, by the way, they promoted in 3-D during a "Meet Emily the New Bachelorette" sequence during Ben's season... just like BRAVE.

Regardless of Emily just suggesting she likes three guys at once, this line has multiple meanings here: "And that makes me sad because they all really have formed a place in my heart and I’m not ready to let that go yet". Remove the last phrase from the rest and you get "I'm not ready to let THAT go yet". "That" may be any number of things... feelings for Sean, feelings for Arie, feelings for Chris Harrison who can't stop oggling her in their sit-downs or... *gasp*... even Rick-Y, whether they are genuine "unfinished" feelings or simply scripted-for-the-screen-by-Fleiss who still wants to milk the Emily Story as long as he can. Even Dolly Parton "knows your story"... and she chirps this to Emily during Arie's date no-less.

My theory? It goes something like this……

It isn’t worth paying much attention to what the lead says directly to her dates. She will say all kinds of wonderfully, ooey and gooey, mushy crap to all of the guys because it’s her job to lead them all on. So, instead of getting caught up in the ooey, gooeyness of it all, I look what the lead is actually saying about her dates in private when she has the freedom to say what she really thinks and feels. In private, the lead will tell us all along who the F1 is and why, and this will be found in v/o’s and p/I’s that we (1) actually see her say or (2) hear her say in which she identifies the specific guy by name. Most of the things that the lead seems to be saying about her F2 (that are sucking people into believing he is F1), she isn’t really saying about him. They will be statements we (1) never actually see her say or (2) we will hear her say but in which she does not identify a specific name. Why? Because the lead never really had the feelings or thoughts about the F2 that came across to us on our screen. Instead, TPTB took things the lead said from who knows where and who knows when during the filming process and strung them together to form the specific fleissed and diced creation that they wanted us to believe was true about the F2.


** And just a note, I'm pretty sure the light at the end of the tunnel thing was in fact on the show in addition to the promo, no?

[shannonmac]

Wow, JBF, from all of your movie talk (Ghost, Titanic, Sleepless, etc), I just had an epiphany about what movie this season of Bachette might really be based on. And given MFleiss's age (just looked it up online, he's born in '64), this movie might well be part of his oeuvre of film-knowledge. In the late 70s was a Brazilian blockbuster called "Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands" - it starred Sonia Braga and was considered the movie that introduced her to US/Europe, since the movie was a big art-house hit here. Then in the early 80s, Hollywood put out its remake of this movie, called "Kiss Me Goodbye", starring Sally Fields, James Caan, and a young Jeff Bridges. (Haha, just the title of the movie lets you know where I'm going with this!) I was a big fan of this movie, even renting it on brand new VHS technology (woo hoo!) the minute it got released to the brand-new Blockbuster store down the street. It was a sleeper word-of-mouth hit, pre-dates Ghost by ~10 years, but is more an emotional melancholic romantic comedy, rather than the somber funeral dirge that Ghost was.

The similarities between this movie and this season could not be more pronounced. Since I can't remember the character names, I'll use the actors' names in this comparison. The plot goes like this: before the movie begins, Sally was married to James, a famous, charismatic-with-an-edge, people-person, well-liked broadway producer/director/whatever, she was crazy about him and idealized/worshipped him and their marriage, but unfortunately he accidentally died by falling down the stairs of their home while they are entertaining guests. The movie begins 3-5 years after his death, and Sally is close to marrying Jeff (with 2 Fs), an introverted, introspective scholarly type (maybe a professor?), calm & well-liked but very unassuming and understated (perhaps underestimated? LOL). He adores Sally and is very supportive of her through her grief, but somehow Sally is getting cold feet and remembering how exciting James was. All of a sudden, James returns to her as the Ghost of James. This ghost charms her, she falls for him, and they essentially embark on an emotional love affair (unlike in the movie Ghost, they never have physical contact, let alone consummate the affair). She's very happy in this delusional romantic state, even the little arguments they get into don't bother her, as they communicate well through them (sound like Arie-Em?). But she's worried that TIME's running out - how long can she have ghost James in her life? and her wedding is around the corner! But Sally's friends are worried if she'll ever free herself from the grasp of the idealized ghost. So one of Sally's friends steps forward (Cassie L, anyone?) to tell her that she had once had a brief affair with James at the start of Sally-James marriage. This, along with Sally's mom reminding her of how difficult James could be, only thinking about himself (ala Kalon baggage comment) - maybe Em's mom will talk next week about warning flags she's sensing from Arie? Remains to be seen. Well, this all gets Sally to realize that James was, after all, just a mere mortal, and everything with them wasn't perfect. Thus, as she let's the pedestal crumble, she's able to let the ghost go as well. When Sally confronts James, he says he had come to heal her, help her get past him, and now that she's ready, he says "kiss me goodbye", and the ghost James walks away from Sally's life forever. The last remnant of grasp on Emily's psyche is gone, freeing her to move on into her future with Jeff.

This season of The Bachelorette, the remake of Kiss Me Goodbye, starring:
Emily as Sally Fields
RickY as pre-death James Caan
Arie as the Ghost of James Caan
1F-Jef as 2F-Jeff Bridges

Other plot points of interest: the movie starts with Sally & Jeff moving into the home that Sally & James had shared (Em lives in a Hendricks home, and this season of Bachelorette starts with her at this home instead of the mansion in LA they usually use). I think there was a kid in the picture, a son ~11 years old, but don't quote me on that.

Anyways, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it! ;)

Holy Cow- You are definitely on to something!! This is exactly the story playing out in front of us.

[Guest]

Wow, JBF, from all of your movie talk (Ghost, Titanic, Sleepless, etc), I just had an epiphany about what movie this season of Bachette might really be based on. And given MFleiss's age (just looked it up online, he's born in '64), this movie might well be part of his oeuvre of film-knowledge. In the late 70s was a Brazilian blockbuster called "Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands" - it starred Sonia Braga and was considered the movie that introduced her to US/Europe, since the movie was a big art-house hit here. Then in the early 80s, Hollywood put out its remake of this movie, called "Kiss Me Goodbye", starring Sally Fields, James Caan, and a young Jeff Bridges. (Haha, just the title of the movie lets you know where I'm going with this!) I was a big fan of this movie, even renting it on brand new VHS technology (woo hoo!) the minute it got released to the brand-new Blockbuster store down the street. It was a sleeper word-of-mouth hit, pre-dates Ghost by ~10 years, but is more an emotional melancholic romantic comedy, rather than the somber funeral dirge that Ghost was.

The similarities between this movie and this season could not be more pronounced. Since I can't remember the character names, I'll use the actors' names in this comparison. The plot goes like this: before the movie begins, Sally was married to James, a famous, charismatic-with-an-edge, people-person, well-liked broadway producer/director/whatever, she was crazy about him and idealized/worshipped him and their marriage, but unfortunately he accidentally died by falling down the stairs of their home while they are entertaining guests. The movie begins 3-5 years after his death, and Sally is close to marrying Jeff (with 2 Fs), an introverted, introspective scholarly type (maybe a professor?), calm & well-liked but very unassuming and understated (perhaps underestimated? LOL). He adores Sally and is very supportive of her through her grief, but somehow Sally is getting cold feet and remembering how exciting James was. All of a sudden, James returns to her as the Ghost of James. This ghost charms her, she falls for him, and they essentially embark on an emotional love affair (unlike in the movie Ghost, they never have physical contact, let alone consummate the affair). She's very happy in this delusional romantic state, even the little arguments they get into don't bother her, as they communicate well through them (sound like Arie-Em?). But she's worried that TIME's running out - how long can she have ghost James in her life? and her wedding is around the corner! But Sally's friends are worried if she'll ever free herself from the grasp of the idealized ghost. So one of Sally's friends steps forward (Cassie L, anyone?) to tell her that she had once had a brief affair with James at the start of Sally-James marriage. This, along with Sally's mom reminding her of how difficult James could be, only thinking about himself (ala Kalon baggage comment) - maybe Em's mom will talk next week about warning flags she's sensing from Arie? Remains to be seen. Well, this all gets Sally to realize that James was, after all, just a mere mortal, and everything with them wasn't perfect. Thus, as she let's the pedestal crumble, she's able to let the ghost go as well. When Sally confronts James, he says he had come to heal her, help her get past him, and now that she's ready, he says "kiss me goodbye", and the ghost James walks away from Sally's life forever. The last remnant of grasp on Emily's psyche is gone, freeing her to move on into her future with Jeff.

This season of The Bachelorette, the remake of Kiss Me Goodbye, starring:
Emily as Sally Fields
RickY as pre-death James Caan
Arie as the Ghost of James Caan
1F-Jef as 2F-Jeff Bridges

Other plot points of interest: the movie starts with Sally & Jeff moving into the home that Sally & James had shared (Em lives in a Hendricks home, and this season of Bachelorette starts with her at this home instead of the mansion in LA they usually use). I think there was a kid in the picture, a son ~11 years old, but don't quote me on that.

Anyways, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it! ;)

Holy Cow- You are definitely on to something!! This is exactly the story playing out in front of us.

Very interesting comparison. Emily's story seems to be following this so closely.

[Tiggerlgh]

What was your theory again, Bananaloaf? You are probably correct in your gut feelings about these PIs and VOs, but there may just be more to the story... complicating matters.

Mentioned this a few times before...

Her relationship with Arie is... odd. He is almost like a nurse (i.e. Romeo & Juliet performance) and she the patient ("I sound like I'm on my death bed" is something she voice-overs when hugging Arie before doing the Shakespeare play). My guess is that she needs him for some quirky therapy reason or another. I don't want to bring up The Ghost again, but it is a fact that BOTH Arie and Emily have brought up Rick-Y twice on their dates together. In Dollywood, she point blank told us in voice-over that Arie reminds her the most of Rick-Y. He himself stated TWICE in episode one that he may bring back painful memories for her. THEY are bringing Rick-Y up, not lil' ol' me, the TV armchair analyst.

Then again, we all realize how scripted this season is. Emily may have long been ready to "move on", but she still has some "residue" to get over and maybe also needed that extra "excuse" for her final one, Jef, so that he can deal with her getting rather physical (minus the overnight) with another guy. I seriously doubt Sean is any real concern for Jef watching since his occasional open mouthed kisses are more fleeting. Arie however has lips made of velcro and even Reality Steve half hinted that the purpose of the dolphin was to make he and Emily temporarily stop.

It does feel like they wanted a race car driver to make final two "dumpee" status regardless whether it was Arie or any other guy handpicked from the tracks, just so that Emily can say on screen to viewers... and Jef (if it even matters to him like it does Drama Soap Tycoon Mike Fleiss)... that he is her "light at the end of the tunnel". The fact that line was heard in the promo and then cut from the actual show suggests that they were going to bring HIM up again with Arie but decided not to late in editing.

Either that or Jef's line regarding time and pretending each date is your last replaced that line... in an oddball Fleissian Metaphor Way.

Think of it like Tom Hanks talking to his phantom wife in SLEEPLESS IN SEATTLE before his bratty kid gets him all the way to the Empire State to bump into Meg Ryan (despite her feeble attempt earlier). We really did not hear Tom Hanks talk much about her after he had that silly phone therapy session. Guess they didn't succeed with Jason Mesnick playing Tom Hanks, so they are just micro-waving some left-overs from that movie storyline this time around. Jason had the cute son and the location right, Seattle (where Ryan Sutter and Trista had their Fantasy date, by the way... and where "sleepless" Doug is from, also with a kid). Brad got all of the phone talk with his therapist those first two episodes or so, not with a radio host. He also got to play "therapist" with Emily on the NASCAR date and was still bellyaching that "her ex is STILL at the forefront of her mind". Sooo... I guess Emily is getting one more storyboard element from that movie Mike Fleiss has probably watched fifty times. That and TITANIC (only with Sean and Arie being "top of the world" not "king of the world")... another film, by the way, they promoted in 3-D during a "Meet Emily the New Bachelorette" sequence during Ben's season... just like BRAVE.

Regardless of Emily just suggesting she likes three guys at once, this line has multiple meanings here: "And that makes me sad because they all really have formed a place in my heart and I’m not ready to let that go yet". Remove the last phrase from the rest and you get "I'm not ready to let THAT go yet". "That" may be any number of things... feelings for Sean, feelings for Arie, feelings for Chris Harrison who can't stop oggling her in their sit-downs or... *gasp*... even Rick-Y, whether they are genuine "unfinished" feelings or simply scripted-for-the-screen-by-Fleiss who still wants to milk the Emily Story as long as he can. Even Dolly Parton "knows your story"... and she chirps this to Emily during Arie's date no-less.

My theory? It goes something like this……

It isn’t worth paying much attention to what the lead says directly to her dates. She will say all kinds of wonderfully, ooey and gooey, mushy crap to all of the guys because it’s her job to lead them all on. So, instead of getting caught up in the ooey, gooeyness of it all, I look what the lead is actually saying about her dates in private when she has the freedom to say what she really thinks and feels. In private, the lead will tell us all along who the F1 is and why, and this will be found in v/o’s and p/I’s that we (1) actually see her say or (2) hear her say in which she identifies the specific guy by name. Most of the things that the lead seems to be saying about her F2 (that are sucking people into believing he is F1), she isn’t really saying about him. They will be statements we (1) never actually see her say or (2) we will hear her say but in which she does not identify a specific name. Why? Because the lead never really had the feelings or thoughts about the F2 that came across to us on our screen. Instead, TPTB took things the lead said from who knows where and who knows when during the filming process and strung them together to form the specific fleissed and diced creation that they wanted us to believe was true about the F2.


** And just a note, I'm pretty sure the light at the end of the tunnel thing was in fact on the show in addition to the promo, no?

Yes it was. Based on your reveiw I don't see how Arie is F2, but I am not 100% convinced he is.

[Love_Me]

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