Bachelor 26 - Clayton Echard - Mar 8 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You know, I had never thought of Clayton's size being a potential "threat" until that moment.  It came to me as well, and I took notice that everyone gave him space as he ranted and walked out.

Amethyst wrote:I think that Susie had a rather flat reaction in the limo perhaps because she was in shock, and still processing what had happened. So many fans were shocked by Clayton's sudden Jekyll and Hyde transformation, and Susie had to witness that happening about a yard away from her from a man she thought she knew. Clayton is also a lot bigger and stronger than her, and it wouldn't surprise me if she briefly wondered if he was capable of violence (even extensively trained martial artists don't take unnecessary risks. Having studied a martial art for five years, your first and best strategy is to retreat from a threatening situation if at all possible.) IMO she was still processing her prior image of Clayton vs. the new reality. And she was also coming to grips with the fact that she was not, in fact, all that special to him.

pavalygurl wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You know, I had never thought of Clayton's size being a potential "threat" until that moment.  It came to me as well, and I took notice that everyone gave him space as he ranted and walked out.

Yes! I had also thought that Susie was in shock when he flipped like that. I know I was. I didn't even think about the size aspect, but that is certainly a very real possibility.

While I admit to not really seeing Suzie all that interested in him...of the three, I have always thought Rachael was the most invested...that could also be due to editing. I also always assume all of them are gunning for the next lead, so that is my own bias. All of that made me skeptical of her, but after re-watching the whole mess, either she is an actress worthy of an Academy award or she was more invested and in shock.

Finally, I feel that Gabby and Rachael are getting overlooked in this Clayton/Suzie drama. I feel really bad for both of them. They seemed invested in this man who manipulatively told them he loved them before offering the fantasy suite card, slept with them, told them he loved them when he left and then told a third woman he actually loved her more! No doubt he would have happily had sex with her as well if she hadn't questioned him and he flipped his lid. He also, lied to Susie about only sleeping with one, although he slipped up and admitted to telling both the others that he was in love. You could tell he meant to only admit to one but it slipped out. He will now admit to them that he told them all that he loved them and slept with both of them. As if that wasn't bad enough and we see them upset and crying, now they get to watch how all this played out and realize that he downplayed how everything went down with Suzie. They get to see that he didn't even love them all equally and he was honestly confused, no he loved Suzie a little more, but still used them. How hurtful it must be watching all this.

GuardianAngel wrote:When Clayton lost his cool and came right out and asked her why she waited till now to tell him, asked her why isn't she willing to work things through if she truly loves him, to me she stumbled and was a loss for words.

She didn't think she'd have to tell him not to have sex? 26 seasons, did she think this would be any different when it comes to the FS.

All the questions he asked, were questions I wanted answered. The difference to me between gaslighting and confronting someone is gaslighting is making someone believe something that isn't true and blaming them. IMO there was nothing wrong with Clayton telling her how he felt, and what he thought as far as her holding out on something so crucial to her until almost the very end. Everything he asked her was true as they unfolded. They enjoyed so much together up until that point, and now it seems like he never really knew her. I find it hard to believe she never thought about the FS until after HT's. If that was so important to me, I'd be thinking about that before I signed up for the show.

Susie moved in with her parents shortly after filming wrapped and IIRC she got her own place in Virginia Beach a few months later. IMO she is not with Clayton since he moved to Arizona to take over his brother's lease. I don't think Susie would get her own  place Jan/Feb? if she was moving again in March to be with Clayton.

Hello everyone! Here's my take on things. messy, messy. First of all I think they need to bring back the statement CH used to say in the early days. Where they gave you the option to leave because it seems that option has been forgotten.

Clayton thought Susie should have told him her ultimatum, my question is why a woman got to tell a man how to behave, if I'm the one you want. Seems to me if he was serious about the process his behavior would have been better.

I was listening to him tell her that she wasn't willing to fight for what they had, oh now he wants her to fight for it. When he didn't fight for it before now by not putting the relationship in jeopardy in sleeping with the other two women. There's consequences for your actions. Not only did he disappoint and hurt her, he hurt Gabby and Rachel with his behavior.

He still today won't just say I made a bad mistake, just admit it and stop making excuses.
The only power the lead has is choosing who stays and who goes. Sure the contestants knows what could go on in the FS but that doesn't mean they have to ignore and surrender their beliefs to the lead. A relationship is a two-way street.

I hope Susie, Gabby and Rachel take notice of that temper. He said it was the first time, yeah first time my eye.

yeah, that... ^^^^^.

Sprite wrote:

Amethyst wrote:I think that Susie had a rather flat reaction in the limo perhaps because she was in shock, and still processing what had happened. So many fans were shocked by Clayton's sudden Jekyll and Hyde transformation, and Susie had to witness that happening about a yard away from her from a man she thought she knew. Clayton is also a lot bigger and stronger than her, and it wouldn't surprise me if she briefly wondered if he was capable of violence (even extensively trained martial artists don't take unnecessary risks. Having studied a martial art for five years, your first and best strategy is to retreat from a threatening situation if at all possible.) IMO she was still processing her prior image of Clayton vs. the new reality. And she was also coming to grips with the fact that she was not, in fact, all that special to him.

pavalygurl wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You know, I had never thought of Clayton's size being a potential "threat" until that moment.  It came to me as well, and I took notice that everyone gave him space as he ranted and walked out.

Yes! I had also thought that Susie was in shock when he flipped like that. I know I was. I didn't even think about the size aspect, but that is certainly a very real possibility.

While I admit to not really seeing Suzie all that interested in him...of the three, I have always thought Rachael was the most invested...that could also be due to editing. I also always assume all of them are gunning for the next lead, so that is my own bias. All of that made me skeptical of her, but after re-watching the whole mess, either she is an actress worthy of an Academy award or she was more invested and in shock.

Finally, I feel that Gabby and Rachael are getting overlooked in this Clayton/Suzie drama. I feel really bad for both of them. They seemed invested in this man who manipulatively told them he loved them before offering the fantasy suite card, slept with them, told them he loved them when he left and then told a third woman he actually loved her more! No doubt he would have happily had sex with her as well if she hadn't questioned him and he flipped his lid. He also, lied to Susie about only sleeping with one, although he slipped up and admitted to telling both the others that he was in love. You could tell he meant to only admit to one but it slipped out. He will now admit to them that he told them all that he loved them and slept with both of them. As if that wasn't bad enough and we see them upset and crying, now they get to watch how all this played out and realize that he downplayed how everything went down with Suzie. They get to see that he didn't even love them all equally and he was honestly confused, no he loved Suzie a little more, but still used them. How hurtful it must be watching all this.

I agree with you. I feel for Rachel and Gabby as well. Rachel in particular must have felt so blindsided by what happened; she had every reason to think that Clayton would pick her. During Gabby's date, I was thinking that she might in fact have been the best fit for him, and it was the first time that thought had occurred to me. I was thinking of all the women, she was the one who I could most picture curled up on the sofa next to him, watching a football game on a Sunday afternoon, or going out for a hike on a Saturday. Denver is not so far from Arizona, and it would not be at all difficult for them to get together. And as an ICU nurse, Gabby could work anywhere. She could even get a lucrative job for an agency as a travel nurse, and go to Arizona or anywhere for contract work.

Clayton had enough common sense to pick four really great women for the F4. He just couldn't keep it in his pants. Looking back, there were signs. He ignored most of the women at the childrens' party in favor of spending time with Cassidy. And he ignored an entire host of red flags in his pursuit of Shanae. I would have to put Clayton in the same group as Pilot Pete -- the "not ready" group. But beyond that, there was a sense of  entitlement with Clayton that needs to be dealt with. IMO he also needs to examine his anger, because women need to feel safe around him.

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Amethyst wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Amethyst wrote:I think that Susie had a rather flat reaction in the limo perhaps because she was in shock, and still processing what had happened. So many fans were shocked by Clayton's sudden Jekyll and Hyde transformation, and Susie had to witness that happening about a yard away from her from a man she thought she knew. Clayton is also a lot bigger and stronger than her, and it wouldn't surprise me if she briefly wondered if he was capable of violence (even extensively trained martial artists don't take unnecessary risks. Having studied a martial art for five years, your first and best strategy is to retreat from a threatening situation if at all possible.) IMO she was still processing her prior image of Clayton vs. the new reality. And she was also coming to grips with the fact that she was not, in fact, all that special to him.

pavalygurl wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You know, I had never thought of Clayton's size being a potential "threat" until that moment.  It came to me as well, and I took notice that everyone gave him space as he ranted and walked out.

Yes! I had also thought that Susie was in shock when he flipped like that. I know I was. I didn't even think about the size aspect, but that is certainly a very real possibility.

While I admit to not really seeing Suzie all that interested in him...of the three, I have always thought Rachael was the most invested...that could also be due to editing. I also always assume all of them are gunning for the next lead, so that is my own bias. All of that made me skeptical of her, but after re-watching the whole mess, either she is an actress worthy of an Academy award or she was more invested and in shock.

Finally, I feel that Gabby and Rachael are getting overlooked in this Clayton/Suzie drama. I feel really bad for both of them. They seemed invested in this man who manipulatively told them he loved them before offering the fantasy suite card, slept with them, told them he loved them when he left and then told a third woman he actually loved her more! No doubt he would have happily had sex with her as well if she hadn't questioned him and he flipped his lid. He also, lied to Susie about only sleeping with one, although he slipped up and admitted to telling both the others that he was in love. You could tell he meant to only admit to one but it slipped out. He will now admit to them that he told them all that he loved them and slept with both of them. As if that wasn't bad enough and we see them upset and crying, now they get to watch how all this played out and realize that he downplayed how everything went down with Suzie. They get to see that he didn't even love them all equally and he was honestly confused, no he loved Suzie a little more, but still used them. How hurtful it must be watching all this.

I agree with you. I feel for Rachel and Gabby as well. Rachel in particular must have felt so blindsided by what happened; she had every reason to think that Clayton would pick her. During Gabby's date, I was thinking that she might in fact have been the best fit for him, and it was the first time that thought had occurred to me. I was thinking of all the women, she was the one who I could most picture curled up on the sofa next to him, watching a football game on a Sunday afternoon, or going out for a hike on a Saturday. Denver is not so far from Arizona, and it would not be at all difficult for them to get together. And as an ICU nurse, Gabby could work anywhere. She could even get a lucrative job for an agency as a travel nurse, and go to Arizona or anywhere for contract work.

Clayton had enough common sense to pick four really great women for the F4. He just couldn't keep it in his pants. Looking back, there were signs. He ignored most of the women at the childrens' party in favor of spending time with Cassidy. And he ignored an entire host of red flags in his pursuit of Shanae. I would have to put Clayton in the same group as Pilot Pete -- the "not ready" group. But beyond that, there was a sense of  entitlement with Clayton that needs to be dealt with. IMO he also needs to examine his anger, because women need to feel safe around him.

I think Gabby was Clayton's "best friend" contestant as most leads have, but I often times do wonder if the friend contestant that many male leads have is actually their best chance at a lasting relationship IRL. Obviously attraction is super important in a relationship as well but i feel like SO many male leads go for who their dreamgirl is, who theyre more attracted to and pretty much disregard the contestant they have the best friendship connection with and just keep them there for a good time/comfort. But day to day life isnt a fantasy and lust fades...so i always wonder if the bachelors would have longer lasting relationships if they actually picked the contestant they actually seemed to laugh and have a good time with.

Everyone has made some very good points, I am still evaluating everything I have seen, read and heard before coming to my final conclusion. The one thing I don’t need to think any longer is the amount of production involvement that took place.
I have a couple of questions, I would like to put out here and get others opinion.
1. Do you feel Clayton’s action toward Susie was as a result of his being in his own head and thinking she was not there for him but was there for the Bachelorette role? In one of the podcasts he was on that was how he explained it. He indicated he was not excusing his behavior but trying to explain what was going on with him at that moment.
2. For those familiar with the Game of Roses, which contestant or contestants do you feel was coached by them?
3. If you found out either the lead or one or more of the final three was coached by GOR would you feel different by them?
4. Do you feel Clayton finding out about Sarah’s lying to the other contestants and his feelings toward her played any part in how he handled his discussion with Susie as he has stated in some podcasts?

Not to defend Clayton but he has stated he knew little about the show and had only two days from being signed as the Batchelor and filming began. My thoughts is he should have know about the shown prior to going on Michelle’s season as a contestant.

Thanks for allowing me to be a member here, I lurk and read but seldom comment.

alwaysvictoria wrote:Everyone has made some very good points, I am still evaluating everything I have seen, read and heard before coming to my final conclusion. The one thing I don’t need to think any longer is the amount of production involvement that took place.
I have a couple of questions, I would like to put out here and get others opinion.
1. Do you feel Clayton’s action toward Susie was as a result of his being in his own head and thinking she was not there for him but was there for the Bachelorette role? In one of the podcasts he was on that was how he explained it. He indicated he was not excusing his behavior but trying to explain what was going on with him at that moment.
2.  For those familiar with the Game of Roses, which contestant or contestants do you feel was  coached by them?
3.  If you found out either the lead or one or more of the final three was coached by GOR would you feel different by them?
4. Do you feel Clayton  finding out about Sarah’s lying to the other contestants and his feelings toward her played any part in how he handled  his discussion with Susie as he has stated in some podcasts?

Not to defend Clayton but he has stated he knew little about the show and had only two days from being signed as the Batchelor and filming began. My thoughts is he should have know about the shown prior to going on Michelle’s season as a contestant.

Thanks for allowing me to be a member here, I lurk and read but seldom comment.

Good questions. My thoughts:

1. I heard the interview. I think during the discussion is when he got into his own head and thought she was in it for the Bette, not before. I do wonder though, how much of that discussion was interrupted by producers to manipulate talk to him or if it was just his own insecurities. I think they may have laid the groundwork in advance.

2. I don't know that site, but I'm leaning towards Sarah.

3. Well, I'm pretty sure Clayton wasn't or he wouldn't have acted like he did, but it would certainly make a difference to me if I was the lead. As a viewer, I don't really care since I'm not invested in any of them.

4. Yes, I suppose it may have, but Clayton has a lot of excuses as to why he acted how he did. He just needs to admit: "I screwed up. My fault. No excuses." and stop trying to justify himself. Man needs some therapy IMO.

I'm looking forward to this season being over- I'll finish watching, but it has been awful since last week!

goodgolly wrote:I'm looking forward to this season being over- I'll finish watching, but it has been awful since last week!

Only since last week? IMO it pretty much sucked all season...it just boiled over last week.

what a waste of a season 

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