Bachelorette 17 - Katie Thurston - July 5 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I too enjoyed last night's date. The producers never fail to deliver on forcing a contestant to face their big fear - Blake horseback riding! They are cute together.

I liked Andrew's date as it allowed us to get to know both of them better. But again, had to force Andrew to tell us his father had been incarcerated. He is so cute and lovable. I did like that Andrew brought up biracial children to see Katie's reaction. This is real and I'm glad we saw more depth than what is your favorite color, food, car, movie, etc.

Don't know if Justin thought up his game himself or if the producers handed it to him but I liked that as again we learned more about the two of them.

I tear up when Michael shared he was a widower with the guys. The emotional response - Andrew getting up to give Michael a hug, aww. And Greg seemed really affected by the news. Michael is such a genuine person - I am rooting for him to be happy. Whomever he finds to be his person will have to be secure enough to allow Michael to continue celebrating his memories.

The previews make it look like a bumpy ride ahead!

Ratings:

At just 3.30 million viewers, ABC’s veteran “The Bachelorette” was still the most-watched show on this first Monday of July. Game 4 of the Stanley Cup Finals on NBC, Tampa Bay at Montreal, tied ABC for the first for the evening in adults 18-49, each with a 0.6/ 4 in the demo. The Stanley Cup Finals averaged 2.56 million total viewers.

https://programminginsider.com/monday-ratings-abc-and-nbc-share-modest-dominance/

eusebeia wrote:That was an enjoyable episode--until the end when we had to have guy-drama again, with Hunter the smug, overconfident villain this time.  Love Katie's face when Hunter is bloviating away--SO clear she's playing the part she's been assigned.  No way it would have been HER choice to give Hunter the group date rose.  

Seems unfair that Andrew didn't get a full day's date.  How mean to make him stand outside during the day when they knew Katie wouldn't be showing up until the evening.  Andrew seemed very sincere, open; Katie's responses and questions seemed canned.  

I was surprised to see Brandon and the other Andrew (?) getting roses; they have been invisible so far.  Maybe she kept Brandon around to be a Canadian pal for Blake--JK!

Do we know who "comes back"--"the last person Katie expected to see"?  

The previews definitely made it seem that Blake and Greg get cold feet and that Michael leaves b/c his son misses him.  

Interesting that Blake talked about going to Africa for a month at a time on their date.  You'd assume Katie would ask where--and have a good enough memory that when asked on the podcast to name some African countries she could come up more than just South Africa.  Playing dumb?

I bet producers love her--she is very good at following the script.

Honestly, this shocked me. I was just able to rattle off the names of 16 African countries without looking at a map. I might give her a pass on this, but on the show there was another area where she displayed a lack of basic knowledge (I wish I could remember exactly what, but I can't, it was during a conversation with one of the men,) that also greatly surprised me. It makes me wonder if there have been significant gaps in her education. To me, it's also possibly indicative of a lack of curiosity about the world. Just reading news reports, magazine articles, looking at maps, watching videos and movies, etc. should give you *some* knowledge of Africa.

To me, once Blake mentioned that he regularly goes to Africa, that would open up a conversation that would last for a very long time. Where does he go, what cities has he seen, and what are they like, how does he get there, what vaccinations did he need, what animals has he seen, etc. You could talk about that for hours.

Amethyst wrote:

eusebeia wrote:That was an enjoyable episode--until the end when we had to have guy-drama again, with Hunter the smug, overconfident villain this time.  Love Katie's face when Hunter is bloviating away--SO clear she's playing the part she's been assigned.  No way it would have been HER choice to give Hunter the group date rose.  

Seems unfair that Andrew didn't get a full day's date.  How mean to make him stand outside during the day when they knew Katie wouldn't be showing up until the evening.  Andrew seemed very sincere, open; Katie's responses and questions seemed canned.  

I was surprised to see Brandon and the other Andrew (?) getting roses; they have been invisible so far.  Maybe she kept Brandon around to be a Canadian pal for Blake--JK!

Do we know who "comes back"--"the last person Katie expected to see"?  

The previews definitely made it seem that Blake and Greg get cold feet and that Michael leaves b/c his son misses him.  

Interesting that Blake talked about going to Africa for a month at a time on their date.  You'd assume Katie would ask where--and have a good enough memory that when asked on the podcast to name some African countries she could come up more than just South Africa.  Playing dumb?

I bet producers love her--she is very good at following the script.

Honestly, this shocked me. I was just able to rattle off the names of 16 African countries without looking at a map. I might give her a pass on this, but on the show there was another area where she displayed a lack of basic knowledge (I wish I could remember exactly what, but I can't, it was during a conversation with one of the men,) that also greatly surprised me. It makes me wonder if there have been significant gaps in her education. To me, it's also possibly indicative of a lack of curiosity about the world. Just reading news reports, magazine articles, looking at maps, watching videos and movies, etc. should give you *some* knowledge of Africa.

To me, once Blake mentioned that he regularly goes to Africa, that would open up a conversation that would last for a very long time. Where does he go, what cities has he seen, and what are they like, how does he get there, what vaccinations did he need, what animals has he seen, etc. You could talk about that for hours.

Amethyst as an educator I would expect you to know more than the average bear (LOL). I was shocked to learn that social studies as they are now called are combined in US schools. When I was at school (many years ago), Geography and History were two separate subjects are we taught extensively. It may be that growing up in Europe my worldview is greater, I don't know, but it is shocking to me that so many Americans have little knowledge about the rest of the world.

I still haven't watched any of this season, am waiting for the "whiny" stuff to go away and get down to the nitty gritty.

As always, thanks for everyone's updates on each episode, they make me decide whether I want to go back and stream or not. So far Nope!

I think Greg related to his mother who is a widower too. I have to admit that I don't see him as a fake actor-to-be but I think he went for his acting career but got caught (like many before him) to be liked by the lead and went from this point forward with mixed feelings between liking Katie, yet thinking the path to fall in love too quick for him and not understanding that a lead can love several people yet making a difference with falling in love. I believe that for him it is straight white and black, not grey. But his reaction made me like him a bit more I must say because, for me, it was genuine tears.

This week's Shanty recap ep5 is great. Sharleen explained very well the producer's manipulations before the evening part and during the date. Like for Blake, she didn't trust the question about sex positivity was his, but most likely suggested by prods. Why? because Blake needed to catch up with the guys about it. Also, Sharleen was LOL about the question about Africa. Said that some people ask a question, not to know the answer but to have the same question back. I love their recap.

Andrew 1-1 date was meh, to be honest. cute but meh. He waited all day long for his date that came very late at night when it was full dark. Sadly producers failed to show us nice intimate fun moments. They were quick to jump on Andrew's father... twice. However, I too enjoyed the biracial conversation. Sharleen said and I agree with her that Katie is the first lead that has no preference regarding the color of the skin. This is very very refreshing.

Of course the new villain Hunter had to fulfill his role. Why do producers keep going with this BS when the large majority of viewers are more in tune with serious or fun conversations?

The teaser is definitely bringing new possibilities. I personally see now Blake leaving AND returning at the finale. It's been a while since we saw that in a season. At least they hinted at this possibility in the teaser (car and guy knocking at her door), true or not.

We see Tayshia (not Kaitlyn) saying "what are you doing here?" which looks like to me she is speaking to Blake since Kaitlyn is not there with her. Same when she said in the sun: you need to leave if... From start, she is the ambassador about Blake (announcement to the guys, announcement to Katie)... she is the mediator between Blake and Katie IMO

Greg's fight with Katie is getting deeper along with his insecurities regarding the process, especially at F3... I think is way more at ease with the guys than he is with Katie.

and Andrew got the run after him in the corridor, the monkey jumping, and now the kiss outside in the sun. AND let's not forget this poem at the beginning of the teaser!! I am back on Andrew F1 love boat again!

We also know that Mike P leaves during their 1-1... Connor leaves probably on his own... Michael A leaves because of his son's heartbreaking reaction...

It will all depend if Greg is leaving or not. But because we see Katie heartbroken in 2 different outfits, I am positive that either Blake and/or Greg are leaving. both promised her they would be there for the long run.. Blake to propose... Greg was more like "I'll will do my best for you"... which is not announcing well. I am 100% producers messed with Greg to stay but I am almost positive he leaves.

Blake's sister talking about not saying ILY to Katie is very interesting and confirms his "I am not in love right now" and IMO reticence to remain at the finale

if both Blake and Greg left, I honestly see Blake coming back, not Greg. I think Greg is stubborn and once he makes a decision, there is no turning back. Blake on the other hand may change his mind,. Intruder, and why not intruder at the finale too? My gut feeling is that Katie will not have it.

all in all. I like that we only have another villain to go thru before going to the good stuff. We could certainly go without it but at least this BS is ending soon  

JMO

It was so nice to have a whole episode this week! I hope they keep it up.

I really like Katie's guys overall. Blake's date showed their chemistry for sure. I'm not sure what the previews mean but looks like they're pressuring him to tell her he loves her before he's ready (that's his sister?). I really like Andrew S but not sure I see beyond friends right now. Will see how that goes. Greg is clearly still the frontrunner but he seems to be in his head the most. What I don't know is if he's like Graham and Brooks before him, guys I like but not guys who wanted to end up with their lead. I think Katie really cares for Michael A but I don't see them together, even if he didn't leave as it appears he does. I don't see any of the others as potentially being Katie's pick. JMO

Re: Katie not knowing Africa. I'm not good at geography and still consider myself a smart person. I don't know if Katie just isn't interested or if she's trying to avoid having knowledge about places that Blake is going.

One edit I didn't care for on the Blake date--Katie asked him if he'd been in love, Blake says, yes, and then they drop the audio and pan out.  I guess his answer took too long to include.  

I agree that the producers told him to ask the sex-positive question.  It was the only part of their conversation that seemed canned.  Otherwise it flowed naturally.  Seems like they made a decision to feature consent/date r*pe this season, because now we've had her story twice, with audience warnings before the segment both times.  

I liked how giddy and smiling they were the whole date.  Blake has a nice, Canadian self-deprecating humor, also evident when he first arrived in the house.  

I always look for a heart-warming love story, but yeah I'm watching the wrong show for that.  The previews promise us unending drama and heartbreak.  Still, a few marriages have come out of the Bachelorette somehow.

eusebeia wrote:One edit I didn't care for on the Blake date--Katie asked him if he'd been in love, Blake says, yes, and then they drop the audio and pan out.  I guess his answer took too long to include.  

I agree that the producers told him to ask the sex-positive question.  It was the only part of their conversation that seemed canned.  Otherwise it flowed naturally.  Seems like they made a decision to feature consent/date r*pe this season, because now we've had her story twice, with audience warnings before the segment both times.  

I liked how giddy and smiling they were the whole date.  Blake has a nice, Canadian self-deprecating humor, also evident when he first arrived in the house.  

I always look for a heart-warming love story, but yeah I'm watching the wrong show for that.  The previews promise us unending drama and heartbreak.  Still, a few marriages have come out of the Bachelorette somehow.

I agree thinking the sex-positive question was prod prompted however after all this sex-positive talk online it’s become evident that there are a lot of differences in how people define the term so it’s not a bad thing to find out how the person you are on a date with defines the term. Plus, Blake would have been the only guy at that point who didn’t know Katie’s non consent story so the question gave her a segue. This happened after the roll in the hay make out and was followed by more kissing at the concert so IMO he was able to initially read her non-verbal consent cues well during the day and she was obviously all in and continued to give consent that night. I think this is important as several other guys seem to rely on her giving them verbal consent at this point.

eusebeia wrote:That was an enjoyable episode--until the end when we had to have guy-drama again, with Hunter the smug, overconfident villain this time.  Love Katie's face when Hunter is bloviating away--SO clear she's playing the part she's been assigned.  No way it would have been HER choice to give Hunter the group date rose.  

Seems unfair that Andrew didn't get a full day's date.  How mean to make him stand outside during the day when they knew Katie wouldn't be showing up until the evening.  Andrew seemed very sincere, open; Katie's responses and questions seemed canned.  

I was surprised to see Brandon and the other Andrew (?) getting roses; they have been invisible so far.  Maybe she kept Brandon around to be a Canadian pal for Blake--JK!

Do we know who "comes back"--"the last person Katie expected to see"?  

The previews definitely made it seem that Blake and Greg get cold feet and that Michael leaves b/c his son misses him.  

Interesting that Blake talked about going to Africa for a month at a time on their date.  You'd assume Katie would ask where--and have a good enough memory that when asked on the podcast to name some African countries she could come up more than just South Africa.  Playing dumb?

I bet producers love her--she is very good at following the script.

She would have remembered if it had been Greg that talked about Africa. At that point she wasn't concerned about Blake conversation.

albean99 wrote:It was so nice to have a whole episode this week! I hope they keep it up.

I really like Katie's guys overall. Blake's date showed their chemistry for sure. I'm not sure what the previews mean but looks like they're pressuring him to tell her he loves her before he's ready (that's his sister?). I really like Andrew S but not sure I see beyond friends right now. Will see how that goes. Greg is clearly still the frontrunner but he seems to be in his head the most. What I don't know is if he's like Graham and Brooks before him, guys I like but not guys who wanted to end up with their lead. I think Katie really cares for Michael A but I don't see them together, even if he didn't leave as it appears he does. I don't see any of the others as potentially being Katie's pick. JMO

Re: Katie not knowing Africa. I'm not good at geography and still consider myself a smart person. I don't know if Katie just isn't interested or if she's trying to avoid having knowledge about places that Blake is going.

I really like the chemistry between Blake and Katie. I think we are seeing far more between them than with her and Andrew. I just can't see how in the heck it is thought that Blake may leave. There is no proof of it and to tell the truth, with how Blake seems invested, it is highly unlikely that he would ever leave AT ALL.

Some thoughts on the episode:

I enjoyed Blake's 1-on-1, and he and Katie have good chemistry with one another. Blake asking Katie how to make the horse "go" was super cute. During Connor B. and Greg's conversation while the date was happening,  Connor observed that "Blake is her type." I would love to know more details about that. What conclusions did Connor and the other guys come to about Katie's "type" at that point of the season?

Katie's facial expressions continue to be transparent, and when Hunter was talking with her, it was clear that it was not going to be happening with him. Yes, he assumed the "not here to make friends" role, but a lot of that was rather clumsy producer manipulation. I agree with those who feel that it was not Katie's choice to give him the group date rose. It also seemed like manipulation from production for Hunter to set up his telescope, etc. on that particular evening (since Hunter already had a rose, that easily could have waited another week.) Watching the other guys sit around, complaining about not getting time with Katie, I was reminded of prior observations that cast members need permission from production to approach the lead. The franchise has been doing this for too long to be this level of obvious. I'm sure that Hunter's aggressiveness was wearing on the guys' nerves, but it was production who attempted to push him into the villain role.

Michael A.'s observation that, "What I do have is a crazy perspective on, is time...the value of [time.] We're here for a finite amount of time...not here, but this Earth. Don't waste your time." Profound, and true. Greg obviously being affected by what Michael A. said made me like him somewhat more. Was it Greg or Katie who observed that Greg has "resting sad face," and a puppy-dog look to him? Also true.

Andrew S. is such a sweetie. Did production really make him wait all day, and into the evening? I sincerely hope not. That would have been cruel. I appreciated his conversation with her, especially about interracial dating. I agreed with one of the cast members who stated, "He makes her laugh. He's a fun person." While I didn't see any chemistry with him on Katie's part last week, I did see it this week. IMO Katie seems more attracted to certain guys as she gets to know them better. Her attraction seems based not just on their looks but the entirety of their personalities.

Justin's little ice-breaker game with her was cute. The editing is still keeping him well hidden if indeed he makes the F4.

I noticed that Katie gave James a flirty look. So far, besides James, I've seen her look or act flirtatiously with Greg, Blake, Michael A., and Andrew S. to some degree.